compensated saddles on new Kamaka HF-2?

janeray1940

janeray1940

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A friend bought a brand spankin' new Kamaka HF-2 the other night, and it's lovely. Tonight I taught her how to change strings, and I noticed that it has a compensated saddle.

None of my HF-2s have this - I know a few of you here have bought new HF-2s recently, I'm curious if they also have the compensated saddle?

And... uh... I know what one looks like, but I don't really know what it's for. My understanding is it helps prevent intonation issues further up the neck, but - they're Kamakas, for cryin' out loud, they don't have intonation issues, do they?
 
Remember Kamaka basically INVENTED the modern ukulele, I'm sure it's 50/50 the guy could have put 'em on 100 years ago. I'd not worry about it, and yes it makes the intonation better, I think people are pickier now in this age of electronic tuners and playing Gypsy Jazz on ukes and so on.

I just barely remember going to the Kamaka shop about age 5 or 6, to buy a uke. It might have been when my older sis's pineapple one was bought, or my little brown one, or maybe that day we bought both. The pineapple came with BLACK strings, whoo
 
Aloha JaneRay1940,
I played and tested a new Kamaka concert a few weeks ago and it had the regular saddle...not quite sure why that would be????
 
janeray1940 said:
And... uh... I know what one looks like, but I don't really know what it's for. My understanding is it helps prevent intonation issues further up the neck, but - they're Kamakas, for cryin' out loud, they don't have intonation issues, do they?
Click to expand...

Every stringed instrument with set frets can have intonation issues - it'll always be a little give here, a little there. Not to mention this increases when you put crappy strings on, or really good ones that have a different gauge and you don't set it up properly.

As for the saddle, my first question is who your friend bought it from - the dealer could have compensated the saddle, not likely, but could have. I doubt if Kamaka would add the cost in, unless they're ordering the saddles in premolded to their specs (ie: from Graph Tech). Plus, how much compensation can there be, don't they still use 3/32" saddles? Of course, on a Concert, that should be enough.

Pics, lets see some pics. . .

And Kamaka didn't invent the `ukulele - he was taught by Nunes before he started his own business. Martin even learned from Nunes, but this is all another story.
 
Here's a pic of a 2010 Kamaka HF-1 with compensated saddle from the factory.

KamakaSaddle.jpg
 
At the kamaka booth at the norcal uke fest the sopranos had the compensated saddles also.
 
mketom said:
Here's a pic of a 2010 Kamaka HF-1 with compensated saddle from the factory.

KamakaSaddle.jpg
Click to expand...

That's exactly what hers looks like! I was going to take pics and totally forgot :p

So, it's factory then? Seems to me like it's a nice added touch if that's how they're sending them out now.
 
My 2010 Kamaka from the factory has a compensated saddle.
 
Kekani said:
Every stringed instrument with set frets can have intonation issues - it'll always be a little give here, a little there. Not to mention this increases when you put crappy strings on, or really good ones that have a different gauge and you don't set it up properly.
Click to expand...

As Kekani said a compensated saddle is just another way to improve the intonation on any stringed instrument. I think it's great to see Kamaka striving to improve their already excellent instruments.
I was a bit shocked when I got a $60 Oscar Schmidt OU2-P a while back and it had a compensated saddle!
 
Thanks all! So can I say with certainty that the compensated saddle is a nice little "extra," and not a way to, um, compensate for some sort of build quality issue on specific instruments? After reading the answers here I'm starting to think that at some point in 2010 Kamaka just decided to, as kenikas said, improve their already excellent instruments.
 
It's very easy to exchange the saddle. Just get one of the new compensated saddles and put it on your hf-2. I think you can get them at the factory. Even my soprano has a compensated saddle.
 
Actually, I'm surprised that premium uke builders haven't been using compensated saddles for many years. Even the cheapest (well, almost cheapest) acoustic guitars have had compensated saddles for years. I guess Kamaka finally got "shamed" into using them when first Kiwaya, then cheaper brands, started using them. They don't add any signifcant cost, and even with 3/32" or 1/8" saddles they do make a signficant difference, especially on shorter scales. The action on my KoAloha concert was quite a bit higher than I consider ideal so instead of taking material off the bottom of the saddle I compensated the top. I reduced intonation problems at the 12th fret from almost 20 cents difference between the inside and outside strings to a smidgen less than ten cents. That's still not anywhere near as good as you can get on an electric guitar with its adjustable saddles, but every little bit helps and it's on a par with high-quality acoustic guitars.

Most of us don't have ears good enough to consciously notice a ten-cent difference between strings at different notes - but we do subconsciously note it when we say "wow, that uke sounds sweet" compared to one that isn't intonated as well. Some poor souls can not only consciously hear the difference, it drives them nuts - I've a friend with perfect pitch who avoids acoustic guitar because the intonation problems on even the best of them drive him loopy.

John
 
Michael_ said:
It's very easy to exchange the saddle. Just get one of the new compensated saddles and put it on your hf-2. I think you can get them at the factory. Even my soprano has a compensated saddle.
Click to expand...

Good idea, thanks! I think I'm going to do this, on my soprano too.
 
OldePhart said:
Actually, I'm surprised that premium uke builders haven't been using compensated saddles for many years. . . . They don't add any signifcant cost
Click to expand...

I think most custom builders pay attention to scale length and intonation, and most factories come to a happy medium on their production stuff. The only problem with those saddles is you can't switch them to low G on the Concert. There are a few builders for MGM that compensates saddles (well, definitely know of one anyway).

And, they add a whole lot of cost - takes me about 5 minutes at best to compensate a saddle. On the other hand, since Kamaka is probably getting theirs made that way, their initial cost setup is in the mold - definitely not a cost to borne onto the custom builders. Either way, its a cost that has to be taken into account (I've seen the setup cost with Graph Tech).
 
Kekani said:
The only problem with those saddles is you can't switch them to low G on the Concert.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that - thanks for pointing that out! I found out today that the compensated saddles are available from Kamaka for $5 each. Guess that means I only need one if it doesn't work for low G.
 
janeray1940 said:
I found out today that the compensated saddles are available from Kamaka for $5 each. Guess that means I only need one if it doesn't work for low G.
Click to expand...

Smart move, they only gotta sell about 600 before they start to break even. Then again, all they have to do is raise the wholesale price by that amount. . .

Jane, you would use one of these if you're tuning reentrant, and not low g. Or am I repeating what you already said?

Personally, nice touch on Kamaka's part.
 
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference between a "regular" saddle and a "compensated" one. Howie
 
Yesterday at the local Guitar Center I saw a $99 Lanikai concert uke with a compensated saddle as well. A welcome trend
if properly done. I have a couple of their more expensive solid wood ukes that are a year or so old and both have straight
saddles, but no intonation issues. I'm also wondering if the use of a compensated saddle will lead to poorer QC on the natural intonation in cheaper instruments.
 
Kekani said:
I think most custom builders pay attention to scale length and intonation, and most factories come to a happy medium on their production stuff. The only problem with those saddles is you can't switch them to low G on the Concert. There are a few builders for MGM that compensates saddles (well, definitely know of one anyway).
Click to expand...

Getting the scale length "correct" is only part of the problem. Unless you can find a string set where the tension is almost exactly the same across all strings (difficult to do without throwing the relative volumes of the strings out of whack) a straight saddle is never going to give you perfect intonation of all four strings. A compensated saddle is still a compromise, but it is a better compromise than a straight saddle. Depending on strings chosen it's not unusual to find almost twenty cents difference between the inner and outer strings on a reentrant uke - even a very good one. Note that is an intonation difference between the strings - i.e. it cannot be fixed simply by careful positioning of the saddle. Compensating the saddle doesn't even completely eliminate this difference, because the saddle is too thin to allow enough compensation. Still, compensating the saddle reduces the intonation difference between the strings and that is always a good thing. On my KoAloha concert with fluorocarbon strings similar to Worth CMs the difference went from almost 20 cents between inner and outer strings at the 12th fret to a bit less than 10 cents.

Kekani said:
And, they add a whole lot of cost - takes me about 5 minutes at best to compensate a saddle. On the other hand, since Kamaka is probably getting theirs made that way, their initial cost setup is in the mold - definitely not a cost to borne onto the custom builders. Either way, its a cost that has to be taken into account (I've seen the setup cost with Graph Tech).
Click to expand...

If we're talking hand cut saddles, then yes, they add cost. In the case of molded saddles I doubt that Kamaka, KoAloha, etc. are molding their own saddles - I'm sure they buy them in bulk. While the cost of compensated saddle blanks might be a bit higher than straight blanks we're talking a few dollars per uke at the most. Let's call it five dollars difference (though I doubt it's really that high) - and lets say the uke in question sells for $600 - that's less than 1% of the cost of the uke and setup is no more difficult with a compensated saddle than without. Would I pay 1% more for a compensated saddle? Yep.
 
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