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Rockabilly
06-13-2011, 02:32 AM
I Googled a song I wanted to learn to play. I got the chords and one of them was a B#m. I couldn't find B#m anywhere. Is it a chord for ukulele? If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated!

roxhum
06-13-2011, 02:38 AM
Oh that is interesting, I just looked through my Hal Leonard Ukulele Chord Finder and B# or Cb minor were not in the book. I will be interested to see what comes up with this thread.

Rockabilly
06-13-2011, 02:47 AM
I know. I got the chord from ultimate guitar so i thought maybe it was a chord for guitar. Then again my knowledge of music is limited.

23skidoo
06-13-2011, 02:52 AM
B# is just plain old C, but it's odd for that to be used in a chord name.... there are all sorts of weird, homemade chord symbols people use when posting tab online, but I've never seen the "#" used to represent anything other than 'sharp'. What's the tune? What was your source? What are the changes you have? Someone more experienced might have a different answer, but this sounds to me like a typo or a mistake in the transcription..... or it could just be C minor. Post a little more info and let's see what you've got.....

23skidoo
06-13-2011, 03:01 AM
just to explain a little more.....

between B and C (and also between E and F) there is a 'natural half step', so there is no black key on the piano between these notes. You go from note to note in one half step, unlike all the other notes where there is a whole step (which is two half steps). For example, going from G to A, you have G# (aka Ab) between them. If you look at a piano keyboard, it's easy to see..... no black key between B and C, or between E and F. Sometimes to fit the needs of written music, you get B# / Cb, or E# / Fb. All '#' or 'b' means is that you lower (b) or raise (#) the note a half step, so B# is a half step above B, which would be C. Cb is a half step below C, which would be B. Never tried explaining this to anyone..... make sense?

RichM
06-13-2011, 03:04 AM
Agreed, B# is C, so B#m is Cm. While there's technically nothing wrong with saying B#m, it's confusing as heck, since the rest of the world (including Hal Leonard) is going to call it Cm. So try Cm, and if that doesn't sound right, it's a plain old typo.

Rockabilly
06-13-2011, 03:15 AM
Thanks so much for the knowledge! Much appreciated!

olgoat52
06-13-2011, 05:15 AM
In the western 12 tone scale there is no such thing as E# or B#. E#=F B#=C as stated above.

Rick Turner
06-13-2011, 06:05 AM
Hmmm,

In some archaic notation, there is actually a B# as well as Cb...and E# and Fb...it depends on the key you're in, and of course, it's the same notes as a C or an F. Some of this goes back to the time before the current tempered scale was agreed upon for Western music, and there was actually a difference between a B# and a C based on the tuning being different for different keys.

There is also an "H" in the German tradition which is a B natural...how's that for confusing?

seeso
06-13-2011, 06:27 AM
In certain keys, the existence of a B#m chord will show up. If you're in D# major, the vi chord (relative minor) will be B#m. If you're in G# major, the iii chord will be B#m.

You shouldn't call it Cm if you're in one of those keys. You can't use the same letter twice in the same scale. For instance, in my first example of D# major, the scale would be:

D#, E#, F* (F double Sharp,) G#, A#, B#, C* (C double sharp) D#.

Granted, no one uses the D# major scale too much. It's usually an Eb instead.

mr moonlight
06-13-2011, 07:24 AM
In the western 12 tone scale there is no such thing as E# or B#. E#=F B#=C as stated above.

If you're playing in the key of C#Major the notes are all sharp (C#,D#,E#,F#,G#,A#,B#). So you do have an E# and B# note and they are fairly common. They help make notation and reading music more practical and a lot less confusing.

Chords such as B#m on the other hand are much more rare and usually come about from keys considered "theoretical" because they technically exist, but are not used due to them being a notation nightmare full of double sharps and flats. So in theory you do have a B#m scale and chord, but in practice it's avoided for easier keys such as Cm & EbM. Still these chords do come about now and then, more commonly when songs that modulate and borrow chords are transposed to different keys.

uke4ia
06-13-2011, 09:59 AM
On some of the web sites for finding song chords, like Ultimate-Guitar.com, you can raise or lower the key to fit your singing range. Sometimes this can result in a chord being listed as something like B#m instead of the more usual Cm.

Pondoro
06-13-2011, 10:19 AM
Silly me, my first thought was "Just make a Bm and move it up one fret", I probably would not have noticed that it was also Cm for a while...

23skidoo
06-13-2011, 03:36 PM
Rockabilly -

My curiosity is piqued..... was it C minor?

Ukulele JJ
06-13-2011, 03:54 PM
If you're in D# major, the vi chord (relative minor) will be B#m.

True. But if you're in D# major, my advice is get the hell out. :biglaugh:

JJ

Mayercaster
06-13-2011, 04:25 PM
Often when you see this written, it will just be a mistake or somebody without proper music knowledge BUT, as others have said, in theory the chord/note B# can exist in certain scales. I remember I was quick to shoot somebody down for saying B# once and got a massive lecture on why it was possible.
I think all musicians should consider trying to learn some theory, the difference it makes it massive.

Rick Turner
06-13-2011, 05:37 PM
After close to 55 years as a guitar player...and 8 as a uke player, I'm finally trying to learn more theory. I do wish I'd learned piano as a kid...it's all there right in front of you on a keyboard...totally linear and making sense. Must get a piano to be able to play uke better! But it's true...you can figure out chords much easier on a piano... Especially one tuned like Irving Berlin's. Inside joke there...


OK: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2664/if-irving-berlin-could-not-read-or-write-music-how-did-he-compose

olgoat52
06-13-2011, 05:50 PM
After close to 55 years as a guitar player...and 8 as a uke player, I'm finally trying to learn more theory. I do wish I'd learned piano as a kid...it's all there right in front of you on a keyboard...totally linear and making sense. Must get a piano to be able to play uke better! But it's true...you can figure out chords much easier on a piano... Especially one tuned like Irving Berlin's. Inside joke there...


OK: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2664/if-irving-berlin-could-not-read-or-write-music-how-did-he-compose

I still have to translate musical concepts like intervals through piano to guitar and uke. Man I with I could quit doing that. It slows things down considerably.

Rockabilly
06-13-2011, 06:42 PM
23skidoo-

It was a Cm.. I just ended up moving all the chords down half a step to fit my voice better.. Thanks again everybody for all the help!