Another Radius Dish required

Timbuck

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Having now got my hands on a real Martin style "O" i'm doing what I used to do when I was working in industry..I'm doing an accurate dimensional survey of it..most of the dimensions so far are pretty close to the drawings available on the web (apart from the thickness of the soundboard (Grellier.059" ?) (Scott Antes .090"?) I get that one at .074")..but there is not a lot of info on the actual back domed radius..in the end I came up with a measurment
That is as close as i can get...and what is it :confused: I should have guessed :D it's 5 foot two...eyes of blue etc: etc:
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That seems a bit extreme Ken... Have you checked to see if it is a dome or a 'boat' curve? I suspect it is the latter with the rims sanded flat and the bars radiused to a nominal radii. It's only in the last 20 or 30 years that Martin has got 'technical' about building...
 
That seems a bit extreme Ken... Have you checked to see if it is a dome or a 'boat' curve? I suspect it is the latter with the rims sanded flat and the bars radiused to a nominal radii. It's only in the last 20 or 30 years that Martin has got 'technical' about building...
I made this gauge to check it some more..That curve is straight down the centerline of the back..also the same curve 50mm each side of the centreline..but across the bouts are some flatter areas... but thats to be expected.. it's by no way a perfect dome...but in general 5 to 6 foot Rad is about the norm...if it was a Tenor or Baratone it would be too much...but on a soprano it looks fine.

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I'm not surprised at all by that radius.
I once visited a very large vintage uke collection in Houston Tx, and was quite surprised at the extreme arch of some early uke backs.
Aren't you glad the tops are pretty much flat?
 
But OH! What those five feet can do!
 
I just so happens that I got a 1930 - 1940 Martin Style 0 today. I did not have time to make a 5'2" curve but I took a photo with my 15' radius curve sitting on the back. Hope this helps confirm your measurements.
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I am more than sure this is a boat curve - I'll measure my 30's style 3 today...
 
Come on Ken, you know I can't do that stuff! The reason I say this is that radius dishes are a releatviely 'new' phenomonen and my knowledge of mid 20th Century building techniques informs me that there was much work done by 'eye' rather than measurement. It is also relevant when you are talking about top thicknesses - yes, these will be all over the place because the obsession for uniformity was absent then since nearly all of the work on these instruments was 'hand' including the bending. It is Taylor, and Collings who almost singlehandedly dragged guitar making and by default ukulele making into the 21st century. The Fox bender was 'invented' in the early 1990's - I saw some of the first results of this now industry standard method of bending. The history of fretted instrument making is one of hand skills right up to 1985 - the emergence of very clever thinkers like Charles Fox and Tom Ribbeke, forward looking companies like LMII and Stewmac have propelled musical instrument making towards 'science and tyechnology' based building in the short time I have been making. When I began in the late 70's in the UK David Dyke as a luthier's suppliers had just started up - before then your only supply line of musical instrument making wood was Sidney Evans in Brum. All of what we do today is the seult of technology moving forward. Vintage instruments are simply amazing for the one single fact that they were rarely put together by engineers - and this is no insult Ken; Bill Collings is and engineer, most of Taylor Guitars developers are engineers. In the old days, the comparable key workers were cabinet makers...
 
As a coda - I have built with a radius of 4'. Brilliant projection but an absolute pain to bind with wood binding. You might want to consider that before you do such an extreme curve Ken...
 
This may come as a surprise to some but to give you an idea what radii to aim for... On a soprano lower bout measuring 6.375" across a rise in the middle of 1/8" (0.125") gives a radius of 40" or 3ft 4 inch....
A 21 ft radius would be almost invisible with a .010" rise in the centre.

Another interesting thing I did was make a template of the side profile
for cutting out the sides..I'm not quite sure yet how martin went about putting these things together.:confused:
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After more inspection..I've finaly come to the conclusion that Pete is right..It's a "Boat Curve"...As near as "dammit" 5'-2" lengthways and 10' across...so i've had a go at doing one.
it's acheived by getting the 5'-2" curve first with careful profile cutting of the sides and sanding to the gauge on a 10' radius dish with a kind of a swinging rocking action...then the linings are glued in place and sanded flush with the same swinging/rocking action..it sounds difficult but it aint:D..anyway we'll see how it turns out when the lid goes on.
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That it!..completed..Turned out ok...it wasn't too difficult...First check lengthways.
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Then across the 10 ft Radius.
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And finaly back to back with the original
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Looks good Ken. That last photo almost looks like it could have been done with one of those mirror tricks
 
As usual, Ken, your stuff is gorgeous! Are you going to make this new radius your standard?
 
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