Just Curious Why French Polish Tops Aren't Seen On Ukuleles?

I was thinking about some of my better luthier made classical guitars and their use of a very thin "French Polish" (shellac) top finish,
and wondered why i haven't seen that carry over to the top tier of quality ukuleles?

One of my better classical guitars Brazilian & Spruce "Millenium" by the deceased master Thomas Humphrey. His collaboration with Martin (and their use of his design) had at least one point of contension,......that they continued to spray on the much heavier nitrocellulous top finish. I am fortunate to have two of these Martin solid wood CTSH "Humphrey" models.

One of them was sent back to Thomas Humphrey to improve it's tone and volumn, and Tom removed the factory bridge, stripped just the top finish off, french polished the top, and replaced the factory bridge with one of his own making. This was all done before i bought
the guitar used, but it DOES show how much a master luthier felt about the benefits of using a lighter top finish. Since it was already an "altered" guitar, i even added a sound port to it myself. This Martin/Humphrey CTSH sounds WONDERFUL!!!!

Considering both ukuleles and classical guitars make use of much lighter tension nylon (or similiar) type strings, it would seem to me
that a french polished top would allow the top to vibrate at it's maximum. :drool:

Some of the lower priced ukes almost look like they have NO finish on them, in fact. So leaving a KOA top finish free is also a
possibility, even on a top luthier made uke, since it is harder than a spruce or cedar top anyway. My soprano uke looks wonderful , but the top has a mirror finish with all pores filled. That seems like a lot of top deadening finish, or maybe it's thinner than it looks.

One possibility that i thought about is that the very small size of a ukulele top might not be vibrating much at all in generating tone, so maybe it's not as critical on a uke.

Just wondering if anyone's experimented with using french polishing their tops,.....or leaving virtually NO finish on the harder KOA tops?

......any thoughts????

I use french polish on some of my ukes. So do others. Unfinished might work but there is the theory/fact that tone benefits from a finish, which gives a tension and makes ... (gah! I forgot details, cue Chuck).

My koa Anakoneke concert is finished with a French Polish top, laquer b/s, hand rubbed oil neck.

OK,......that's the first i've read of it so far......

....but what have you found as to the benefits of using a french polish? Is there a noticable improvement over using
several coats of nitrocellulous?

I have two flamenco guitars that are french polished, and I have to keep touching them up as it wears off.

I french polish shellac exclusively on all my instruments, guitars, ukes, mandolins. I like shellac for many reasons.

One finish is not "universally" superior to another, there are "gives and takes" just like everything else in life. The builder chooses based on his priorities.

I know several builders who french polish their ukuleles. Ideal for when you are in a situation where spraying is not feasible.

Ted4 said:

I have two flamenco guitars that are french polished, and I have to keep touching them up as it wears off.

Click to expand...

Yep,.....that's a biggie. My 2004 Thomas Humphrey Millenium arrived to me used, and the upper side that rested against the players shoulder could use a touch up. French polish and persperation don't mix well,....lol Just a few inches have dulled a bit.

But that is a plus also i guess,....the fact that a player can touch up the finish from time to time on his own instrument.
On a guitar i would prefer only the top be french polished, and the sides recieve several coats of nitrocellulous. That way you get the benefits of better sound transmission where it counts the most (top), and the better "wear" characteristics of lacquer on the back and sides.

Anyway,.....glad to hear it's done sometimes on ukuleles.

I also french polish some of my ukes. Most of the time I use a french polish base, followed by three coats of nitro lacquer. It seems to be a good compromise between being thin and protective.

Brad

If you know what you are doing, it's quite possible to have a lacquer finish that is high gloss, yet incredibly thin. I don't see it too often though, as most luthiers just haven't had the training and experience in that aspect of building.

Shellac, while being a lovely finish just isn't one I could go with living in the tropics. Half the year the humidity is very high here. Like living in a steam bath at times, and the sweat just eats into the finish.

Well, Ron Fernandez gets $1,100.00 to French polish a guitar, so figure a uke FP at about $450.00 unless you're making $5.00 an hour.

Also, FP is just so delicate that most uke players will just not put up with it.

I have no problem doing thin polyester gloss finishes or thin satin polyurethane over polyester finishes.

One option for a knowledgeable customer might be what Greg Smallman does...poly back and sides, FP top, but the way ukes are treated, I just don't think it's a great idea. I doubt the "return on investment" is worth it.

I'm just thinking of all the old french polished martins from the 1800's with original finishes.
I have my own guitar, and it is played several times every week at least. I'm not a "beater" but I don't play delicately either. I live on the Texas gulf coast and I am a sweater. I don't have a problem at all with my guitar.
A good FP can be a durable finish, but it isn't polyester, or lacquer.

David, don't get me wrong; I love French polish, but it's only for those who take care of instruments. Also, there are different formulas and it can be laid on thick or thin.

I agree that Martins from the 1890s and before...which were French polished...tend to look a lot better to me than the Martins from the late '20s onward that were sprayed with nitro lacquer, but you're not looking at dead flat pore filled finishes either. It's a different aesthetic entirely. In fact, chemists I've talked to at companies like Dupont agree that nitro lacquer...like celluloid...is only maybe good for 75 to 100 years. It's inherently unstable, it continues to lose plasticizers (used to be castor oil) forever, and it will eventually degrade to flakes or dust. In celluloid form, it tends to slowly self-immolate...and sometimes it isn't so slow. D'Angelico guitars are notorious for their rotting binding and pickguards; many have had to be rebound.

There are so many variables too Rick. I don't dispute that FP is delicate, especially in the first year, after that it is pretty durable.
I make no bones about it, the reasons I choose FP is it's low "overhead" cost, and that it is less dangerous to me.
I do make a pretty "thick" FP finish also, and spend plenty of time building it up.
The bonus is that it is beautiful.
I wish people could handle a nice big chip of raw shellac, and feel the hardness.

Allen said:

If you know what you are doing, it's quite possible to have a lacquer finish that is high gloss, yet incredibly thin. I don't see it too often though, as most luthiers just haven't had the training and experience in that aspect of building.

Shellac, while being a lovely finish just isn't one I could go with living in the tropics. Half the year the humidity is very high here. Like living in a steam bath at times, and the sweat just eats into the finish.

Click to expand...

The sweat part i might agree with,....but realistically the inside of a ukulele doesn't appear to have any finish applied
at all. So i would say in humid conditions the inside is gonna suck up all the moisture the wood can hold!

A good compromise might be having the back, sides and neck lacquered,.......and just the top done in shellac.
That way the durability of the part of the uke touching the body the most is better protected, and the top is free to
vibrate as much as possible. Touch up surface area is much smaller this way also! (just the top)

One other benefit of a shellac finish is that a luthier might be better able to do some testing with a top bare (no finish
applied and using db meters and recording equipement),......and compare that to various applications of french polish.
If it turned out the "no finish" was a hands down winner in tone, volumn, and sustain,.......removal of the shellac would be
a snap with just alcohol.....

.....or at least it would seem to me.

BTW,...this would be on a harder wood such as KOA. Spruce, and especially cedar being much to soft to play without a
protective finish.

French polish is not durable and MUST be continually maintained. NC lacquer and all the others were developed for a reason... after 4 years of spraying NC i am beginning to get a sufficiently thin coat to get absolute clarity and durability.