New band saw :)

Broke down and got a Harbor Freight 14" band saw today. On sale for $350, less 20% off coupon = $280, less than $300 with tax

I've been doing some research, and as far as I can tell all the similar 14" saws are indeed from the same factory in Taiwan, same castings, etc. Grizzly, Delta, Ridgid, Powermatic, Jet, etc. - I think they are all the same darn thing except for various accessories. Could be wrong, but I don't think so...

So anyway the plan is to get the 6" riser block kit to make it have a 12" depth of cut, and then make a sled sort of thing so I can square up hunks of firewood easier. Then, Pete, we'll see which is more efficient for re-sawing, the band saw or the table saw

Seriously, so far I'm impressed!

Wow. Congratulations. I am (nearly) speachless. Had to do a quick check of the weather, and yup, just as I thought.

My ukin' buddy Sandor Nagyszalanczy is a tool expert; he was an editor for Fine Woodworking, writes and makes videos on tools, jigs, and fixtures, and himself has been a tool design consultant to a major manufacturer sourcing power tools in China. He has told me of what goes on in the tool factories there from first hand observation. While many of the tools may look the same, they are not necessarily all of the same quality level, nor do similar tools all come out of the same factory (or even just a few). Counterfeiting, copying, using competitor's castings to make patterns for your own castings...this is all normal business in Asia. Sandor was even barred from one of the factories making stationary power tools from one of the biggest companies in the business because he would have seen too much and reported the truth. Let's just say he was bearly treated with respect there...

The differences will really show up in the machined parts, the plastic parts (Grizzly's fail at an amazing rate...), the quality of even the threading of castings, motors, motor controls, and bearings.

I've found the best of the Chinese stuff to be the Jet, Shop Fox, and either Delta or Powermatic branded tools. I'm now less keen on buying anything from Grizzly or Harbor Freight because of past experience.

You want a great band saw with factory and aftermarket parts available forever, get a used Delta or Rockwell. Then get the Carter upgrades as you can. My daily use band saw is a 14" Powermatic with the full metal cutting gearbox and pulley set; it's a fantastic saw, though it won't do for resawing. For that I have another American-made saw, a Baker AX 20" that will cut through nearly 14" of anything.

One of the reason that big box stores have lower prices on machinery is because they will put a smaller or inferior motor in them compared to what is sold at a woodworking store. Same item product number but different sized motor. Years ago, I did buy a Delta 14" from Lowes and am now looking at upgrading the motor on it.

I was sitting outside just while ago enjoying the swelter and I looked up in the sky... to my amazement I saw a flock of pigs flying due north... crazy.
Anyway... sometimes harbor freight tools seem fine, sometimes not, I had a D.A. from harbor freight that went through 8 cars a day for months and was a real work-horse... ended up selling it with my old compressor. I've seen a lot of that shop fox stuff for really reasonable prices and was kinda afraid of it till now, thanks for the heads up, Rick.

Oh yeah, My 12" Delta band saw acts like it wants to live forever, never a hickup... but I sure wish I'd held out for a larger one.

I bought a SIP 14" http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150557775414....First thing that failed was the lower wheel bearing..I took the bearing out it was the single metal shielded type and it was crammed full of sawdust...so I replaced all the bearings in the machine with the doubled sealed rubber type ( it didn't cost much to do they are cheap on E-bay)...and I've had no problems since.

You Brits have some wonderful tools available...Wadkin-Bursgreen, for instance...and access to some great Euro stuff as well.

So here is the beginning of the aforementioned "sled" thing:



Essentially a pipe clamp held in steel brackets which will be fastened to a plate that slides on the band saw's table top. The brackets attached to the pipe will clamp onto pieces of angle iron fixed to the sliding plate - moving those will provide the width of cut adjustment. More later

I'm waiting for the 6" riser block for the saw to arrive. In the mean time I'm still impressed with it; seems like a good solid thingamabob to me... They really ought to furnish a decent blade with it though - the one that comes with it is dull.

Sorry to throw cold water on your gloat. It was one of my less successful tool buys (as most have been at Horrible Freight with a power cord) and I kept it for a week and returned it. I hope this works for you. I did rig up a mini lumber mill and took some pics:







Here's why it didn't work for me:

The frame is marginal in stiffness without the riser. Add 6" in height and it becomes really unstable and flexs very easily. This causes the blade tension to vary...even at max tension.
When the frame flexed, the blade curved in the cut. This made a convex/concave cut, not a 90 degree cut. Eventually the cut got so bad in a quarter section of the Persimmon log pictured, that the blade came off the lower wheel and crimped in the cut. Wasted a brand new Timberwolf blade but learned a valuable lesson.

Tarhead said:

Here's why it didn't work for me:

Click to expand...

I'm guessing it was your contraption that was doing the flexing, not the frame of the saw .

I've just been looking at a 6" riser kit being fitted on u-tube http://www.howcast.com/videos/1929-How-To-Install-a-Bandsaw-Riser-Block I cant do that on my bandsaw..its an all steel welded design with a cast iron table.. 8" high is all i need anyway.

dave g said:

I'm guessing it was your contraption that was doing the flexing, not the frame of the saw .

Click to expand...

Nope. I only used that for sawing the log in half.
Good luck

And the lesson was? "Don't be foolish enough to ask a hobby machine to do a professional job!" Whatever were you thinking? Cutting a log like that would require at least a 3 phase machine with a 5hp motor, a dedicated sliding carrage and a 2" blade with at least a 3/32" set on it! Doh...

Pete, wide blades are kind of 20th Century now...the new technology is thin kerf, relatively narrow blades. The Timberwolf blades are 3/4", and I have no problem tensioning them and running slice after slice of 8" to 12" cuts. The only wood that gave me a hard time was pink ivory; I can cut mahogany or walnut for hours on a blade. But yes, my machine is massive, and it's got a 20 hp 3 phase motor.

Pete Howlett said:

And the lesson was? "Don't be foolish enough to ask a hobby machine to do a professional job!" Whatever were you thinking? Cutting a log like that would require at least a 3 phase machine with a 5hp motor, a dedicated sliding carrage and a 2" blade with at least a 3/32" set on it! Doh...

Click to expand...

I expected issues with the log section and took my time and had to take it easy on the pressure. No problems with it other than a wavy cut. It took about 15 minutes to slice it in half. The problem occured when I tried to resaw a quarter section (~4" tall) against the fence without the sled. A "Hobby Saw" should be able to pull this off. Maybe without the riser it could but the riser made it too unstable to do it in a reasonable time. Now if you are just cutting Spruce, Mahogany, Spanish Cedar, Koa and other softer woods you may be OK. Risers are great for 60+ year old Delta, Crescent, etc 14" bandsaws weighing twice what the HF saw weighs. You need more cast iron in the spine for one to work effectively so set your expectations appropriately on the Chinese knockoffs.

I think that the technology for round timber sawing is entirely different to flat stock sawing. Rick, I am well aware of the current blade technology which I believe is really only viable on large machines given the blade costs and is designed for production cutting seasoned wood. I don't know of any sawyer cutting round wood with tungsten blades and a thin kerf because this stuff is usually wet and you need a lot of clearance to get rid of the 'ragging' fibres. As I said before, not everyone using this forum has access to 3 phase industrial machinery. We often give hope to small builders when talking up our production techniques, forgetting most have a 14" Delta or similar with a 3/4hp - 2hp motor and are expecting the resaw capability of a 16" under-the-guides machine. Given the situation presented here I would have quartered that log with a log splitter, surfaced the two faces presented to the table and fence square before taking it to any saw and would be using 3tpi or less tooth count on the widest blade possible.

Progress!





Works fine, will work a lot better with a decent blade

Dave, if you install a riser on that saw be aware that you may need to do a little tweaking to get it to fit right. I helped a neighbor set one up and we had to do a little grinding on it to get it to fit right and track properly. A Google search will show that this is a common problem due to poor casting.
Since you saved some money on the saw you might want to invest in a good blade. A Lenox carbide blade brings out the best of my Performax 14". It's pricey at $140 but I'll never use (or need) anything else.

Looks like a good cut, Dave. I have a similar set-up for my early '60s Delta 14 inch saw with riser block and the orginal Delta 1/4 horse motor. I've learned to take my time with the cut and it does fine. I like your sled a lot better than the one I made, however. The only thing I would add to the blade discussion is to take your time and find a blade that your saw likes. I started out with the conventional wisdom - wide blade (3/4") and 3tpi - but have found that I get much better results with a 3/8" blade. I guess my saw just didn't like pushing that much blade through the wood. I've had no problem getting good slices off of logs and resawing boards for sides, backs, and fronts.

Pete, I know of people using the Timberwolf variable pitch 3/4" blades on Delta 14" saws (with decent guides and enough horsepower) with good results. These are not tungsten carbide blades, they're Swedish steel with induction hardened teeth. The pitch varies from 2 to 3 tpi which apparently cuts down on harmonic vibration in the blades. I've used carbide toothed blades, and the problem with them is that if you're resawing wood harvested locally and you hit a rock or nail, you've just lost a $200.00 (or more) blade, whereas the 14'2" blades for my saw are under $30.00 a blade when I buy ten of them. The Timberwolf blades are plenty flexible enough to run on 14" wheels as the band thickness is only .025" with .010" set either way. These are blades specifically designed for resawing with a good gullet design to pull out sawdust and a hook design that isn't too agressive. Great blades...fine on a 14" saw given decent frame rigidity and horsepower.

The side benefits of these thin kerf blades is very high yield...I've calculated 17% to 20% better than on, for instance, a Hitachi saw with the 2" or 3" wide blades, and because the kerf loss is small, you get better book matches.

The source for the blades is Suffolk Machinery. Some local saw shops carry the band stock, but I found that the Suffolk welds hold up better than my local saw shop which does crappy welds.

I know that my experience seems awfully industrial and out of the league of the hobbyist, but I think these blades would be the best choice for small shop luthiers who want to resaw their own wood.