replacing tuners on a vintage uke

garyg

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One of the tuners on my late 30's early 40's Gretsch uke is starting to go and I'm wondering whether I should try and find some vintage tuners or just have a luthier install new ones and save the old ones. Your thoughts (I started to write "any opinions" but folks here have more opinions than they have ukes so I chaged the wording;) ). TIA, g2
 
New tuners will make your Gretsch a better player; original tuners will maintain the uke's value. As far as I know, new tuners don't require any permanent alteration to the peg holes. Sounds to me like you've got exactly the right idea. Have fun with that Gretsch!
 
If you're intending to keep it, do what you need to do to make it playable. But if you're looking to sell it, (even eventually), most people will appreciate having all the original parts.
 
If the new tuners don't alter the holes whatsoever, then I think you're in the clear. Put the new ones on, and keep the old ones with it just in case you plan on selling it in the future.
 
Well, chances are that you would have to ream the peg holes to adapt to new tuners. New tuners are better quality, in general, but often have larger bushings. When you say the tuner is starting to go, do you mean that the top of the screw used to tighten it is stripped? If so, you may be able to fix it by getting a replacement screw. Otherwise, you might try taking it apart and cleaning the tuner parts. That can help. What type of tuners are they? Grover barrels?
 
Yeah, having to alter the holes would affect the value and also the ability to reinstall the original tuners. I'm not sure what kind they are, but they look like what I've seen on many other ukes from this period. When I say it's starting to go I think that the gears or whatever is inside is starting to go. I can turn the tuner but the string doesn't tighten until I hit a certain point and then it starts turning again. I've tried tightening the screw but it doesn't seem to help too much and I don't want to tighten it so much the the "guts" are damaged. But this is all supposition, I don't really know how the guts of these things work. Should I tighten the screw more? TIA, g2
 
There are no guts in there and no gears inside unless they are something unusual. Take it apart and you can see how it works.....it is just a couple pieces which create a friction grip on the peg head. The button on yours may be stripped....or could use a little tune up. Can you post a picture?

One great way to help vintage tuners if they have the plastic button directly against the wood headstock is to place a small, thin, smooth flat washer between the plastic and the wood. This way it gives the plastic something smoother to slide against and a bit more thread to work with on the screw.
 
Ryan offers good advice. Sometimes the screws are hard to tighten because the slots aren't very deep and they get stripped from years of manhandling with a screwdriver. I found some screws just the right size at the local hardware store. I'd try replacing the screw and see if it tightens more easily. If the plastic threads are stripped, you could try to get replacement buttons.
 
OK stupid question, how would changing to better (newer) hard ware decrease the value.
If it were cracked you would get the crack repaired and increase the value, if it needed a new nut you would replace it with a quality nut and increase the value, If the frets were worn you would have the frets leveled or replaced as necessary in order to keep it as a good player, The only value I see in disfsunctional old tuners is to hang it on the wall. My opinion keep it in top knotch playable condition. The value is in its ability to produce the vintage sounds. Keep the style but the wood and the frame are where the value is. Ducking incoming flak lol.
 
Most vintage musical instrument owners would prefer to keep their instrument as original as possible. If he can fix old tuners and make them work like new, there's no sense in reaming the tuner holes to fit new ones on. Some changes might be necessary to keep an old instrument playable (such as fret leveling, neck reset, etc), but there's no sense in invasive surgery when it's not necessary.
 
tuner photos

Okay, here are some photos of the tuners and the side of the headstock and neck.
Poppy, this is the same issue with all collectables, clocks, paintings, etc. if they come with the original equipment, frame, etc. they are worth more than if parts have been replaced.
TIA, g2
 
If this was my uke , I would put Grover 4w tuners on it. If you plan on keeping it and playing it alot, this would be a definite upgrade. As far as selling it , I think it is a better uke with the upgraded tuners.
I don't think upgraded tuners would lower the resale , just the opposite. IMHO. Look at it this way , if there were two identical ukes for sale, one with original cheap tuners that don't work well. The other uke has Grover tuners that work xlnt and you are buying it to play , which would you buy? I would buy the one with the grovers and would pay a little more for it.
 
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I just upgraded the tuners on a '20s banjo ukulele that were failing. The new friction tuners actually hold the instrument in tune, unlike the originals. I am super glad I changed them, I have no idea if I changed the value of the ukulele, but I play the instrument so I'm not so concerned. Either way, the ukulele is probably worth the $150 I paid for it so if I lost some value and gained a heck of a lot of playability I am happy with the tradeoff.
 
There are no guts in there and no gears inside unless they are something unusual. Take it apart and you can see how it works.....it is just a couple pieces which create a friction grip on the peg head. The button on yours may be stripped....or could use a little tune up. Can you post a picture?

One great way to help vintage tuners if they have the plastic button directly against the wood headstock is to place a small, thin, smooth flat washer between the plastic and the wood. This way it gives the plastic something smoother to slide against and a bit more thread to work with on the screw.

The "5 Star Planet" friction tuners on my 2000 Ron Saul have what appears to be a fiberous washer (leather??) that creates friction to hold the tuner in place. I can see where that can wear out over time, start slipping, and need replacing.

.....maybe your problem tuner has something similiar?
 
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OK, the pictures help A LOT.

Those tuners are hard to work with because the part of the tuner which comes in contact with the wood of the back of the headstock puts plastic on wood. Furthermore, the plastic which contacts the wood there is convex rather than flat which makes it almost impossible to put in a washer. I have those tuners on a vintage Regal and they are hard to deal with.

So, you need to look at what you want to do with this instrument.....

As for keeping it original....for me, as a vintage uke guy, I HATE when someone puts new tuners on an old uke. I want it as original as possible, and then if I am going to make changes, I can do it the way I want it. So, if you think you will be selling this at some point, either leave it alone and try to make what you have work a little better, or only make changes that don't alter the uke so you can put it back to original to sell it.

If it is a player for you, and you intend to keep it then consider changing them to something that will make it work for you day in and day out. You can go with some good Grover tuners and you would likely have to widen the holes. However, I have had great luck with Ping brand friction tuners. The shaft is thinner than Grovers and they may drop right in. The Ping tuners I put on a vintage uke of mine are smooth as silk when tuning.

One thing with the Ping tuners. They come with a washer for the top of the headstock which needs a countersink hole. I abandoned those and bought a pack of stainless steel flat washers at the hardware store, and used those on the top of my headstock. They match perfectly and eliminate the need to countersink the hole, and thus, dropped right into my uke. Ping tuners can be had for about $10.
 
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Thanks everyone. This is a great uke but I do plan to sell it, maybe even soon because I recently purchased a teens-20's Gretsch with wooden tuners and it's at the luthiers getting set up. If that has a better sound then I'll sell this one, so perhaps I'll hold off on replacing the tuner(s). Sounds like Ping tuners are the ticket if I do decide to "retune" har, har, har. Ryan, when you say the washers go on the top of the headstock do you really mean the top or do you mean between the plastic tuner key and the headstock? cheers, g2
 
Well, I can't assure the Ping's will drop right in.....but they might.

For most tuners old and new, there is a lip on the tuner which is meant to sit against a washer on the TOP side of the headstock. On the backside of the headstock where the plastic button sits against the wood, most cheap old tuners have no washer. It is just plastic against wood which tends to make the tuner not turn smoothly. To improve a vintage tuner I add a washer between the plastic button and the wood. Usually a flat brass or chrome washer as they are very smooth.

Again, your buttons are not flat where they meet the wood so they are likely not to take a washer there. Unscrew one and you will see what I mean.
 
I recently saw some planetary geared uke tuners that look like friction tuners (and there was a wide selection and they were all beautiful) when I was upgrading the tuners on my late father-in-law's old Silvertone. I think they were at Stew-Mac, but I'm not sure. Pretty sure they were made by Grover. I ended up going with Grover geared tuners because the planetary ones were really pricey, but if I could have afforded them, the planetary geared ones are the ones I'd have gone with. My wife and I have no intention of selling her dad's uke, so geared tuners weren't really an issue. We're both lifelong musicians and neither of us can tolerate instruments that won't stay in tune, so that was the deciding factor. I'll look for the planetary tuners and post a link here if I find them.
 
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