Harold O.
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576530520471223268.html
It seems this story doesn't want to go away.
It seems this story doesn't want to go away.
DOJ raids Gibson
- Thread starter Harold O.
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PoiDog
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Not for nothing, but if Gibson is guilty of buying illegally harvested woods, I'd support slapping them HARD. I don't care how nice an instrument it may be, if it uses wood from over-harvested, threatened, or depleted stock, it is just not right.
Wow, that is scary about having an older instrument confiscated during travel if you don't have every part documented. Yikes!
–Lori
–Lori
Colonel Uke
Well-known member
Feds raid Gibson factory
Here is an interesting article I came across today about a raid the US Fish and Wildlife agency made on the Gibson guitar where they "seizing several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars." Gibson defends themselves by stating that all of their wood does come from certified suppliers. I know that on our fine ukes, just like guitars, there is ebony, mahogany and other rare woods much of it imported from the far east. I wonder if anyone has heard of uke manufacturers facing this same issue?
Here is an interesting article I came across today about a raid the US Fish and Wildlife agency made on the Gibson guitar where they "seizing several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars." Gibson defends themselves by stating that all of their wood does come from certified suppliers. I know that on our fine ukes, just like guitars, there is ebony, mahogany and other rare woods much of it imported from the far east. I wonder if anyone has heard of uke manufacturers facing this same issue?
Being a huge, and long time Gibson guy/fanboy, If they are knowingly buying, and/or supporting harvest of endangered species, or illegal woods, they should be hit and fined hard on it. But, it should also be investigated that it was not shady practices on the seller of the wood, or missrepresentation. But even in that case, it should send a message to manufactures to investigate, and know on their own what they are buying/supporting. Just sayin..
joep
Well-known member
On the other hand, if they are NOT guilty, they should be paid the amount of fine they would charge.
Huckleberry
Well-known member
Government goes after Gibson
Looks like the government is cracking down on instrument manufacturers use of rare woods. LUTHIERS take notice. WSJ article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576530520471223268.html
Looks like the government is cracking down on instrument manufacturers use of rare woods. LUTHIERS take notice. WSJ article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576530520471223268.html
Here is thread that was already started about this subject.... http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?52337-DOJ-raids-Gibson
Tsani
Well-known member
I agree with Lori - it is a scary idea that an older instrument could be confiscated for laws that were not even dreamt of when the instrument was built. I grew up in the third world, in a rainforest environment. Believe me, it is not instrument makers that are putting rainforests in danger - it is the makers of illegal flooring, boat decking, and the mining and palm oil industry. I own a some old instruments, a Marca Aquila soprano built before 1910, and an Aloha from the 1940's. Who knows what they are made of? Documentation? Hopeless. When these instruments were built, the woods were not endangered - and you are going to confiscate it now? I am a huge supporter of defending the rainforest. I know it up close and personal. Chasing owners of antique instruments is a waste of time. Checking on Gibson to make sure that they are not buying illegal wood in bulk on the side is legitimate. But really, go after the real culprits. Go after the people that are clearing thousands of acres a day in New Guinea to harvest iron wood (or "Merbau") for for furniture, flooring, tool handles and boat decks. Go after the people that are clearing old growth rainforest to rip gold and copper out of the ground and poisoning the ecosystem with tailings. Go after the oil palm plantations that are bulldozing the rainforest to plant their oil palms. Musicians and instrument makers are not the problem.
Leodhas
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I don't like what Gibson have done to the Epiphone brand (which for me is the far cooler brand, that famous picture of John with his casino rocks my world ) so if they've been up to no good hit them hard !
My dislike for Gibson comes from being told by them that, under no circumstance and for no amount of money would they build me an Epiphone Royal arch top to original specifications in their US factory! Since then I have been at war with the company in my head. Nevertheless, I seriously don't like any Gibson guitars, it's physiological because of the Gibson brand, but I don't like any! Saying that I'm not too keen on Fender!
However, Gibson and Fender now appear to own so many brands between them. Epiphone, Gretsch and Guild are my favourite brands and I think fender own Gretsch and Guild and Gibson of course owns Epiphone, it all seems so wrong!
Ron98GT
Well-known member
What worries me, after reading the article, is that you better be careful if you take your uke out of the country (USA), like on a Caribbean cruise, or possibly even to/from Puerto Rico. You have to know where all of the wood and bone came from and possibly have to prove it. That MIGHT be possible on a custom uke, but not on a mass produced instrument from Indonesia or China. If you replace your plastic saddle, like on my Epi, with bone, what documentation do you have?
Ron98GT
Well-known member
Taylor Guitars, they make acoustic & electric. You should read about their eco friendly work/policies and how they work with other countries that supply wood, specifically Belize and Honduras.
They also have a great BTO (Build to Order) program.
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Leodhas
Well-known member
ok
To be fair I don't know much about Taylor and their business practises. Out of Martin and Taylor I always preferred the styling on Martin guitars but that's by the by. I suppose I was referring to my own personal displeasure with Gibson and their lack of willingness to accommodate customer requests to highlight the fact that as a guitar maker they have become far too corporate and lack an intimate touch in relation to customer service, which in turn leads me not to be surprised if Gibson the corporate machine is acting in an under-hand fashion! No Guitar marker should have the power Gibson and Fender now possess, It's just wrong and very uncool!
To be fair I don't know much about Taylor and their business practises. Out of Martin and Taylor I always preferred the styling on Martin guitars but that's by the by. I suppose I was referring to my own personal displeasure with Gibson and their lack of willingness to accommodate customer requests to highlight the fact that as a guitar maker they have become far too corporate and lack an intimate touch in relation to customer service, which in turn leads me not to be surprised if Gibson the corporate machine is acting in an under-hand fashion! No Guitar marker should have the power Gibson and Fender now possess, It's just wrong and very uncool!
Harold O.
Well-known member
Key statement there and why I posted this in the first place. Whether or not Gibson is guilty of anything doesn't really affect my life. What could have an impact though is my habit of taking a uke along whenever I travel. If some Customs agent decides he likes my uke, what's to stop him from pulling me aside and demanding papers?
With this in mind, regardless of which uke I am travelling with, from now on the stock answer will always be, "It's my cheapo mahogany with plastic parts travel uke, sir."
guitarsnrotts
Well-known member
Martin has long been involved in CITES and it's efforts to protect the forests of the world. They've tried with varying success in introduced alternative, sustainable tonewoods. I understand that they even require their dealers to buy a certain number of the sustainable wood models as part of their dealerships. Gibson and perhaps to a slightly lesser degree, Fender have simply devolved into corporate conglomerates interested solely in the money and marketing at the cost of their long held reputations as quality instrument makers. The Dobro name was bought and ruined by Gibson as well.
I no longer cross any international borders with any of my older more valuable instruments. It's not worth the hassle since I'm not a professional musician.
I no longer cross any international borders with any of my older more valuable instruments. It's not worth the hassle since I'm not a professional musician.
Harold O.
Well-known member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96QOaEUnPY0&feature=player_embedded#!
Here's a radio interview from Friday with the CEO of Gibson Guitars talking about the DOJ raid. He says the Wednesday raid was over different wood than the 2009 raid where the government confiscated and still holds a lot of Gibson property. The current raid involved some Indian rosewood and interpretations of Indian law by the US DOJ.
MODS: This thread will soon devolve into a political discussion and should be locked.
Here's a radio interview from Friday with the CEO of Gibson Guitars talking about the DOJ raid. He says the Wednesday raid was over different wood than the 2009 raid where the government confiscated and still holds a lot of Gibson property. The current raid involved some Indian rosewood and interpretations of Indian law by the US DOJ.
MODS: This thread will soon devolve into a political discussion and should be locked.
crowsby
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Like most everyone else, I like their stuff, but priorities are priorities. And protecting threatened forests easily supersedes having a nice fretboard.
As far as the 'Antique Martins being seized at the border stuff' - is there any evidence of this having actually happened? Or is it more of an alarmist conceptual thing? They don't mention any evidence of it in the article; just a piano importer that couldn't get his paperwork straight.
As far as the 'Antique Martins being seized at the border stuff' - is there any evidence of this having actually happened? Or is it more of an alarmist conceptual thing? They don't mention any evidence of it in the article; just a piano importer that couldn't get his paperwork straight.
SuzukHammer
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There are lots and lots of stuff you can't travel across US borders with; but, honestly, they don't really go after stuff like that in my extensive extensive world travels.
They really just look for drug mules as far as I can tell. A nice demeanor to explain what you have and I'm sure it will be ok.
I am kind of giggling about people's fear of customs confiscating ukuleles.
Just another reason to go small.
They really just look for drug mules as far as I can tell. A nice demeanor to explain what you have and I'm sure it will be ok.
I am kind of giggling about people's fear of customs confiscating ukuleles.
Just another reason to go small.
uke5417
Well-known member
Note that the WSJ article didn't cite a single instance of a musician's personal instrument being confiscated. That idea (echoed in the headline) was speculative and not a little alarmist.
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