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Rick Turner
09-28-2011, 04:30 PM
Over in the Uke Talk section...where you're much more likely to have customers?

I for one have tired of showing my instruments off mostly to luthiers. Luthiers don't buy my ukes, guitars, and basses; MUSICIANS DO! Duh... So who do I want to have see, hear, and desire my instruments? Yeah, musicians...dedicated amateurs and professionals. Players. Collectors. Folks who want to own nice things.

I enjoy technical discussions here; I'm a pro and as into learning as I am into sharing ideas, but being a pro means marketing my instruments...and myself...to those who are likely to buy, and you guys are not my market.

If there's a skill that most luthiers lack worse than any other, it's salesmanship. And without it, it doesn't matter how good we luthiers think you are. You'd better have a significant other with a good job and benefits...

fahrner
09-28-2011, 05:08 PM
Because it's an opportunity to show off their work. That's obvious I think. It's also a good thing from the hobbyest builder perspective to see what other hobby builders are doing. I find it interesting, informative and in some cases an inspiration.
I don't see a lot of folks trying to market their stuff here.... it's not the place.
Think the issue is that we have a forum that is trying to cater to a very broad spectrum of builders, from hobbyest (like me) to the pro guys like yourself.
So, the question is; can we continue to coexist inn peace and harmony as we have seemed to have done for the past year or so (of my experience)?
Will also add that I for one like the fact that you guys are here. I've gleaned a bunch of insight from the likes of Chuck, Pete, Allen, Ken and even yourself and the rest of the regulars. Am thankful that you guys are willing to give so freely. But, there's a whole bigger list of hobbyest that participate here that show off their work, talk about how they have done it and ask questions. That's the stuff that's really floating my boat here.
....did I really say 'floating my boat'. Yikes.

Rick Turner
09-28-2011, 06:02 PM
I don't have a problem with folks showing off ukes here; I just wonder if it's partially in avoidance of the general uke playing population...that this is some kind of comfort zone where the harsh reality of commerce is not going to batter egos. Let's show them over there that there's more to the uke world than sub $200.00 imports...

olgoat52
09-28-2011, 06:38 PM
From what I have seen, the hobbyist uke makers are here to hopefully get an opinion from the Big Dogs. I think most are not interested in marketing thier works to the rest of UU. I honestly don't know what happens to most of them. I suspect a fair number stay with their builders as their pride and joy for a long time.

And thanks to all the Big Dogs that weigh in with their opinions. Always makes me feel like "ok, someday I'm going to get back into this".

Steve vanPelt
09-28-2011, 06:39 PM
In my actual trade as a finish and trim carpenter, at least with the group I work with, whenever one of us completes a task, room, job whatever we always get another carpenter to look over our work. The more experienced the better. The guys that have been doing it the longest know where to look and what to look for. Always looking for an honest opinion and constructive criticism. A kind of peer review of sorts. That's just business as usual.

It's a lot easier to do when you've been working side by side for years, are all friends and all have the same goal of excellent workmanship on the job. A little different here in the lounge, as there are lots of folks from all over the world and different experience levels and attitudes, as well as different goals from their postings.

On the job it's pretty much considered bad taste to talk up your own work. Always let the work speak for itself. If particularly proud of an install you might say," at least I didn't eff it up too bad this time, what do you think?" I've schlepped instruments hundreds, even thousands of miles to any builder kind enough to see me, but that's not alwYs feasible so I like to try to get some feedback here from time to time.

Michael Smith
09-28-2011, 09:10 PM
What about uke gallery forum on this site that could act as a cross over from the other forums. I do see your thinking Rick and think we could do a better job of showing our work to the players/buys. Many players who may have looked in on this forum one time would likely not want to read all the back and forth about side bending, what is a luthier or 95% of our posts. If we had a section that was purely photos of latest works it would be a much richer experience for the Ukulele playing/buying public.

Really good point Rick

Pete Howlett
09-28-2011, 09:57 PM
It's a forum not only for professional builder but hobby and enthusiast builders, the latter forming the majority participants. I post because it's these people who want to have a yardstick against which their work can be 'judged'; if you like, it's the equivalent of academics publishing for 'peer' review purposes. I also suspect that this section is widely read by 'lurkers' who want more information about builders other than their instruments - we reveal a good deal about ourselves here which oftens helps people judge whether or not they wish to do business with us. This is why we need to be careful about what we say, how we respond to new work being presented here and the degree of respect we give to the clearly misguided enthusiast who wants to reinvent the wheel. I also believe as professionals we need to take great care what we put in our signatures - unsubstantiated boasts about being the best thing since sliced bread can reveal more about us than any picture of our work!

I'll keep posting here and participating because it is a place where I can give back - I have a 'fan' base who expect me now to continue to help them become better builders through my videos and comments on their work. We don't need a new section. You want to sell your work proactively? Then there is the marketplace forum for that. And to answer the question; of course we are marketing - but not only our instruments.

Michael N.
09-28-2011, 10:37 PM
Try going on the Official Luthiers Forum. Precious few Players (other than the Luthiers themselves) but it has a very healthy turnover of Posts and no shortage of Makers displaying their wares. They are preaching to the converted. I'm fairly certain that everyone on there knows that it is highly unlikely that they will ever gain a sale by posting on that Forum. They do it for reasons such as Peer review, critical acclaim etc.
I'm not sure it's that easy to gain sales by posting where the players hang out either. Precious few part with their money just because someone has posted a few fancy pictures. Posting a few fancy pictures and offering it at near cost price is another matter! Those with a 'name', reputation etc. have a much better chance.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
09-29-2011, 07:09 AM
I'd hate to see this forum turn into another selling venue where competition and egos get involved. That's what your own web site is for. That's what Facebook is for. Let's keep this a place to learn and share.

Pete Howlett
09-29-2011, 07:16 AM
Neither would I - however I hope to see your work occassionally posted here Chuck. I'm dead against people posting speculative work in the hope of a sale though... marketplace is for that.

ksquine
09-29-2011, 07:59 AM
Ditto what Olgoat52 said. I'm just a hobby builder so I'd rather show off to other hobbyists and pro's.
Besides....my ukes are sooooo great that I might start a riot amongst the customers:D

23skidoo
09-29-2011, 08:07 AM
I think most people just hit the 'what's new' button, so they see all the posts in all the forums anyway.... I do.

I've always been struck by the popularity of the luthier-related threads here..... for instance, there are 9 other people browsing this thread with me.... Seems like - outside of the gerneral discussion of 'Uke Talk' - who has what uke, who built what uke, what wood is best, which tuners, etc. seems to be the primary interest of most regular UU folks - they seem to be collectors and/or 'armchair luthiers'.

Out of all the sub-genres of interest on this forum, the Luthier's Lounge - especially when there's a controversy or a little dust up - seems to me to be the most popular.

23skidoo
09-29-2011, 08:09 AM
Seems like - outside of the gerneral discussion of 'Uke Talk' - who has what uke, who built what uke, what wood is best, which tuners, etc. seems to be the primary interest of most regular UU folks - they seem to be collectors and/or 'armchair luthiers'.


Just reread that and it sounded a little negative.... didn't intend it that way at all. I'm one of these people, too.....

nscafe
09-29-2011, 10:06 AM
I think most people just hit the 'what's new' button, so they see all the posts in all the forums anyway.... I do.

Me too, I had to click into the post just to see what forum it was actually posted in! ;)

Flyfish57
09-29-2011, 10:35 AM
I really enjoy looking at what other makers are doing-especially the first time builders that posted pix of their first uke and are now posting pix of their number 5, 6 or 10. Why do guitar makers(and one ukulele maker) bring their guitars to the Guitar maker symposium? It isn’t to get a sale, but a way to connect with other makers, get opinions, give ideas/get ideas, ect. I truly hope everyone continues to post their latest creations here.

erich@muttcrew.net
09-29-2011, 11:40 AM
I think it's perfectly OK to show others what you're working on and how it turned out in the end. I learn a lot from seeing what others have done and hearing how they got there. I have never felt that anyone was trying to sell their instruments here. People are looking for feedback - from peers and from the masters if they humble themselves to give their opinions.

It's been like this for as long as I have been here and I don't know any reason to change it. Maybe some people need to lighten up a little and not try to make this the super professional luthiers' forum for professional luthiers only who discuss professional questions about professional lutherie for professional readers. That's for guitar builders, ukes are for fun and enjoyment.

itsme
09-29-2011, 12:37 PM
I always use the "what's new" view, too. :)

Uke Talk is full of "new uke day" threads. I always enjoy checking them out, but honestly, most of them are off-the-shelf ukes and pictures are readily available elsewhere.

What I really like about the luthier threads is seeing the build process, especially when it involves something unique or innovative, regardless of whether it's by a pro or amateur. Even kit builds by first timers are interesting to me. :)

ksiegel
09-29-2011, 02:22 PM
I read this thread to see what those of you who are building are working on, and if you show a new instrument, I drool over it. I can't say that I'm currently in the market for a new or custom built ukulele, but if not for this forum, I'd never have known to look for Compass Rose ukuleles when I was on the west coast. I'd have no idea who Chuck Moore, Pete Howlett, Ken Timms, or Aaron Keim were.

Because of this forum, I do know who you are, I've seen your work, and I know what the quality of the builds are. It isn't that you're hawking your wares, you're just showing examples.

And I, for one, appreciate that as a consumer.

One of these years, if my strength holds up, I'll be able to afford to commission a custom ukulele, or find the perfect selection ready-made from someone like Rick Turner.

Until then I'll keep coming here and drooling.

Thank you gentlemen, for showing off your work on this forum where the rest of us can see it, and discussing what you do where the rest of us can read it, and get clues.



-Kurt

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
09-29-2011, 02:57 PM
It's been like this for as long as I have been here and I don't know any reason to change it. Maybe some people need to lighten up a little and not try to make this the super professional luthiers' forum for professional luthiers only who discuss professional questions about professional lutherie for professional readers. That's for guitar builders, ukes are for fun and enjoyment.

I agree 100%.

Steve vanPelt
09-29-2011, 03:19 PM
I know most of us refer to this place as the 'Luthiers Lounge' but that's not actually the full name of this forum. Besides , if you post your build in uke talk the mods just move it here anyway.