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View Full Version : Theodor Nagel, a sad story....



erich@muttcrew.net
10-07-2011, 09:10 AM
We recently received word that Theodor Nagel - the place that had 18 different varieties of rosewood to offer, a company with almost 200 years in the wood business and one of the top players in wood import/export for many years - has declared bankruptcy :( Sad but true.

Just wanted to let you know.

FWIW - I heard today about 14 million euros

Timbuck
10-07-2011, 09:47 AM
Looks like the U.S. Goverment helped in this one:rolleyes:

Theodor Nagel Bankruptcy
September 28, 2011
On September 7, the County Court of Hamburg, Germany initiated bankruptcy proceedings over the assets of Theodor Nagel GmbH.

Nagelís timber trade is a rich tradition, dating back to 1837. Most recently, the emphasis was in the import and export of mostly decorative hardwoods. Theodor Nagel supplies precious woods to many national and international guitar and instrument makers for building their instruments, including Gibson Guitars, which (as reported extensively here and elsewhere) been involved in a conflict with the U.S. government regarding charges of illegally imported wood.

Michael N.
10-07-2011, 10:45 AM
I doubt it was the Gibson thing that did it. Nagel's were huge players in the hardwood market. I once heard it said that ALL the Indian Rosewood in Europe came through Nagels at one point. Even if that wasn't true it does give an indication of just how big they were.

Rick Turner
10-07-2011, 01:49 PM
Nagel owns LMI.

mzuch
10-07-2011, 05:48 PM
Is this a bankruptcy to allow the company to restructure its debt (Chapter 11 in the U.S.) or a bankruptcy to liquidate assets and go out of business (Chapter 7 in the U.S.)?

Kekani
10-07-2011, 07:16 PM
Nagel owns LMI.

This is not good.

Liam Ryan
10-07-2011, 09:32 PM
"Owns", as in, LMI is an asset of Nagel? As in, an asset that will be liquidated by the receivers?

erich@muttcrew.net
10-07-2011, 09:39 PM
Is this a bankruptcy to allow the company to restructure its debt (Chapter 11 in the U.S.) or a bankruptcy to liquidate assets and go out of business (Chapter 7 in the U.S.)?

As far as I was able to ascertain, they are in the process of liquidating their assets and headed towards closing their doors (forever).

Pete Howlett
10-08-2011, 02:53 AM
Belive it or not bankcrupcy in europe tends to follow a completely different route to that in America. Go bust in the US people say "bad luck... better luck next time." In the UK you are branded a failure forever.

This however looks like it as ericn says and if we are just left we Barber and Madinter in Europe, heaven help us!

Rick Turner
10-08-2011, 03:53 AM
There may be a technicality re. LMI. According to the Allied Lutherie site, the owners of Nagel also own LMI. That could be a bit different.

thistle3585
10-08-2011, 04:30 AM
It could also be that one location in Hamburg is going bankrupt. It just depends on how they structured the corporation. Too little info for anything other than speculation.

Horwitz Jerry
12-03-2011, 05:22 AM
It is already known to many that Nagel key assets are way beyond the German Prosecutor, indeed:

Their Mpingo saw mill in Montepues, Cabo Delgado Province, North Mozambique, is where their source of African Blackwood comes from! The very centre of Nagel financial power!
It is completly out of reach of any German or US prosecutor!

In that location, I saw recently, huge quantities of prime African Blackwood (Grenadilla) logs worth millions of Euros that are well stored! They won't be auctioned as should be! They are way beyond the German or European courts for that matter!

In the same location a fully equipped saw mill is also way beyond any attachment by any US or European courts!

The two containers of African Blackwood parts shipped recently from Pemba harbour to two Asian countries are worth many more millions that are also under the noses of the courts and of the creditors!

According well informed insider sources the subject shall very soon restructure its business from swiss headquarters, well structured and well hidden away from any European courts!

Too bad for those who lost feathers in the bankrupcy the Krauth family shall survive and remain out of reach for the courts!

Your practicum,
Jerry Horwitz:cool:

mzuch
12-03-2011, 05:40 AM
I'm glad I didn't lose any feathers. :confused:

Dan Uke
12-03-2011, 11:44 AM
I'm in commercial banking and my observations is that "rich" people or people with significant assets will fight the system instead of working with creditors.