Awkward client - luthiers please read and respond.

I have had close on 30 'enquiry' emails from a potential client claiming he is from Thailand - I'm getting exhausted answering his many and detailed questions. His name is Thiti Skoolisariyaporn. Anyone else out there been contacted by this guy andhad a similar experience? I just can't make up my mind if it is a wind up or not...

Pete Howlett said:

His name is Thiti Skoolisariyaporn. Anyone else out there been contacted by this guy andhad a similar experience? I just can't make up my mind if it is a wind up or not...

Click to expand...

LOLWUT? I just had to google that...

http://en-gb.facebook.com/thiti.skoolisariyaporn

To me, 30 emails just screams "nut job"...

Not had anything from him but I have had similar enquiries that go on and on and on.....
They always end the same way. The 'genuine' interest was never there from the word go. Otherwise known as time wasters and boy can they waste your time. As though this business isn't difficult enough as it is.
Now I can sniff them out much faster. I ask for a 'healthy' deposit. Kind of put up or shut up. The messing stops.

Ahhh, clients and long drawn out correspondence. Yeah, happens all the time, and when it does turn into an order, make sure you do one document that has all the specs on it that the client approves and signs of on. I've made instruments that lacked a tiny feature mentioned in email #6 out of 30 and the like.

Also, if you're selling direct, don't assume you can sell for what would be "wholesale". You need to make the retailer's portion of the final price as well as the builder's portion. Too many beginning luthiers simply do not understand that it takes time...therefore money...to sell their ukes and guitars. Every minute you're talking, typing on your computer, showing, going to festivals, etc., is a minute you're not at the bench building. Selling ukes costs money. Who pays for that? Your clients have to, simple as that. Do NOT underprice your work thinking that you'll gain market share or break in that way. And understand that the first ten decent ukes are easy to sell to your acquaintances, fellow club members, etc. The next ten take twice the time to sell. And the next ten...well, not easy. After that, you're either going to be a pro or spend all of daddy and mommy's money being an amateur 'til the money runs out.

I wonder if there is some kind of cultural factor in here as well? The number and kind of questions involved in a negotiation (which is what you are doing with potential clients) are sometimes ways of communicating trust. In some cultures it takes more time to establish a business relationship (see many Asian countries--western folks in a real hurry need not apply...). I don't speak with any knowledge of this man and his culture (and I certainly can't tell you whether he is a waste of your time), but he may be more comfortable in his own language spoken, rather than in English written in emails. Just my $.02.

I know the Okami's just came back from Thailand - `ukulele is BIG there, so this may be one of those that is looking to get something that no one else there has. If he's looking for a custom, that's what I'd think. If he's looking for something that everyone else has, and he's coming to you, well. . .

Aaron

30? Too many red flags. Sounds like OCD. The money isn't worth the heartache. My 2¢

Rick - I'm not a beginner at this I know how to price my work. Thanks for the advice tho... I was curious to see if he had contacted any other builders. Was worth a shot. I know how this is going to go from the last email sent after this post

Is there really that much to discuss about an instrument? The standard questions that I get from customers are nut width, neck thickness, string spacing and wood selection. When people start asking really detailed questions I get very suspicious. Several times I've had people ask me really detailed stuff that most players wouldn't ask about so I have to believe that their asking questions on how I build my instruments and not about buying an instrument. If they were up front from the get go and say, "I want to build a uke with a bolt on neck how do you do yours?" then I'd be fine with that but the covert stuff just turns me off. If they really are a potential customer that is so wrapped up in the details then I don't think I'd be able to please them no matter what I do and would simply state that I don't think I could build an instrument to meet their expectations. If you want one of my instruments then you get what I want to build. I don't cater to every whim anymore.

I have had the same experience with some buyers from Thailand, so I ended the correspondence. Some time in the past many years ago, I had one guy who wanted rope bindings (2 types), abalone inlays next to that, then colored purflings around all the edges, fingerboard and sound hole rosette, with a sunburst finish. We did not talk about fingerboard inlays because I cut off the discussion. I gave him the name of several other uke luthiers. I get folks asking all the time what it would cost for this or that design, size, etc. It just a fishing expedition and they are looking for the cheapest way to go. I give them a price and time and my terms, but I usually don't hear back. Dealing with the public is very hard at times when it comes to a custom uke, so like Andrew, mostly I don't.

Dear (Insert name of Client),

Thank you very much for an opportunity to build a (insert project name) for you! I am interested in making the best (insert project name) I can for my customers.

In our (insert number) (emails, calls, etc) we have exchanged many details regarding the (insert name of project) you want me to build for you. I am concerned that some important details may get forgotten or misconstrued. As such, I have prepared a detailed quote of the (insert project name), options you have inquired about and an estimate of time required for completion. It is attached it to this email. Please examine this quote and return it to me with a signature and an initial by each option price you wish to include. Please also include a deposit for 50% of the total, including all selected options, and I will put your (insert project name) into my schedule. At the present time there are (insert number of projects) ahead of you.

Unfortunately I am unable to spend additional planning time on this project at no charge and will need to be reimbursed for a minimum of 1 hour at (insert your astronomical hourly labor rate) for time related to each design change. If you send me a design change inquiry, I will send you an estimate of the total design time required for each change and expect full payment prior to any design work beginning. After the additional design work is completed, I will prepare a change order detailing the scope of change and any additional project costs associated with the requested change. I will expect this to be returned to me with a signature and full payment for the change prior to any change work commencing.

I look forward to building the best (insert project name) I can for you!

Best Regards,
Pete, Uke Maker Extraordinaire

Great stuff Tarhead. He has changed his mind at least 5 times, asked for soundfiles, videos - you name it he's done it. I always ask for a 50% deposit because it shows comittment. If he ever gets back to me I will certainly use some of your suggestions here. Thank you

Not had this particular person, but others like them. Fortunately not too often. I've learn't to cut them off petty quick now. Unless they have clear and concise questions that I consider pertinent to a particular instrument I have in stock, or a commission, then they are just time wasters. And the older I get, the more precious my time has become to me.

In my dodgy mental state of mind, I could not handle all this customer/builder relationship stuff, ( Mrs Timbuck calls them Finacky Buggers)...Thats why I don't build to order..and thats why I build them to my own specifications, and then I put them in the shop window for sale...Come to think of it thats what "Henry Ford" did with the T1,(You can have what ever colour you like as long as it's black) I think he quoted that phrase.

Christ, me and Rick have exchanged 23 emails as I wait for the bank to deposit my money so I can buy a Compass Rose; please don't think I'm a crackhead too.

First of all to Pete, no I have not done any correspondence with your client, but have had one or two wack-o's. I have to thank you all for making me remember to charge for the little things that I seem to forget about. Answering e-mails, updating website, writing blogs, staying up to date on social networking...etc, etc. Also, next time I do need to charge for a photo log of the building. I agreed because I didn't think it would take too long. But man! It ate up all kinds of time. I've always been more of a crafts/artist person and have never been much of a business person so I really need to step it up and get with it!

Thank you tarhead for the letter!

Geez 30 emails ?!?!? I wrote 5 or 6 when I oredered a custom ukulele......and I thought I was asking a lot of questions......

Everything does make sense but unless you have built up your reputation, there are lots of builders that people can choose from. You need to do a break-even analysis with price vs. quantity projections. It's important to distinguish what is fixed cost and variable cost.

Look, if we're selling direct, it's simple...we're both building the ukes as "manufacturers", AND we're selling them as "retailers". Both activities come with their time commitments and their costs to us and to the ultimate buyer. I don't see a problem with that other than that too many luthiers don't consider the selling part...and the hand holding part...as a part of their actual costs, yet it is. It's the cost of doing business, and if you build to order, as I do, it's simply going to take time to settle a sale with a client. The best clients know that part of what they're paying for is attention...attention to exactly what they want, attention to detail, and that means a relationship that goes beyond seeing a uke in a store or on line and just buying what is there.

If all you want to do is build...and not have to deal with "bespoke" orders, as would seem to be the case here with Tim, great. Build some stock designs on spec, and whoever wants them can buy them. It's certainly an easier way to go. But there are a significant number of potential clients in that price range above about $1,500.00 USD who want something special, something "bespoke", and to be honest, we luthiers have to be able to charge enough...fairly...to accommodate their desire for a direct relationship with us, the builders, and their instrument.

I do a bit of all of the above...I build some "spec" instruments to set designs and wood & trim specs, and we make a lot of parts...tops, backs, sides...on spec. I also build to order for retail stores. And, of course, I also build to very custom specs for direct customers. It all works for me.