solid tops vs. all-solid construction

Something I've been ruminating on for a week or so (and forgive me if it's already been discussed to death).

Seems like more and more of the entry-level uke companies are offering ukes with solid mahogany tops and laminate mahogany backs/sides.

The virtues of solid wood soundboards are beyond debate. My question is, do the back & sides of a uke really contribute much in the way of tone, or do they just serve as the walls of the resonating chamber? Furthermore, even if the sides & back did have a tonal contribution to the sound of the instrument, wouldn't much of that contribution be muted by the fact that you hold a uke against your body, dampening the vibration?

If the back and sides do significantly contribute to the voice of the instrument, should there be something like this gizmo available for ukes?
http://elderly.com/accessories/items/TGM1.htm

Discuss. I'd appreciate the wisdom of any of the luthiers among us!

Cheers,
r_d

An all solid wood uke is always going to out shine the top/laminate ( if the woods are the same, say Mahogany or Koa, etc.) version if it is well constructed and if the luthier knows what they are doing. Anybody who tells you different hasn't done their homework. If your talking strictly factory or import factory instruments, all bets are off, then you have to let your ears decide.

BlackBearUkes said:

An all solid wood uke is always going to out shine the top/laminate ( if the woods are the same, say Mahogany or Koa, etc.) version if it is well constructed and if the luthier knows what they are doing. Anybody who tells you different hasn't done their homework. If your talking strictly factory or import factory instruments, all bets are off, then you have to let your ears decide.

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If you're talking tops yes. For backs and sides it's much more debatable. Like BlackBear said, solid wood is always going to outshine laminate ones when it comes to high quality Ukes, but if it's a high quality uke it will have a solid top anyways.

river_driver said:

If the back and sides do significantly contribute to the voice of the instrument, should there be something like this gizmo available for ukes?
http://elderly.com/accessories/items/TGM1.htm

Cheers,
r_d

Click to expand...

There is.......
http://www.tone-gard.com/Home



Bill

An all solid uke isn't going to have the addition of glue like laminated sides or back, making it a much tighter structure. Once the top is glued to the rest of the structure, the sides, back and neck, an all solid uke is going to be just that, solid. It won't have voids or rely on glue for its strength. If you are happy with a laminated uke and think it will sound as good and actually you can't hear the difference, than go for it. Having built over 400 wooden acoustic instruments and having work on hundreds and hundred of laminated instruments over the years, I am here to tell you laminated instruments don't age as well or sound as good when they get older. Once the laminations start to separate, and we can't always see that, the sound suffers greatly. If the bridge starts to lift from a laminated top, it usually will take the top lamination with it, thus destroying the top plate. Ovation instruments are one of the worse for this problem. If the instrument gets dropped and the laminated side or back is damaged, its an ugly repair, if it can be repaired.

I would encourage anyone who wants a good instrument to stay away from laminated ukes, guitars or whatever. I hate to see good wood like Koa, rosewood, spruce, mahogany, etc. get cut up and made into laminated instruments. I really don't care if they are cheaper or how they look, IMO in the long run its a waste of resources that we should be putting more value on. It is not a finite resource.

BlackBearUkes said:

Ovation instruments are one of the worse for this problem. If the instrument gets dropped and the laminated side or back is damaged, its an ugly repair, if it can be repaired.

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But oh how I love the Ovation sound <3

Have to say that my Kamoa all lam sounds pretty gosh darn good!!

No fruit baskets will be attached to any of my instruments. Ovation/Adamas/Applause/Flukes/Fleas are prime examples that the sides and back do not have as much to do with sound as the tops. Ric

ricdoug said:

No fruit baskets will be attached to any of my instruments. Ovation/Adamas/Applause/Flukes/Fleas are prime examples that the sides and back do not have as much to do with sound as the tops. Ric

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Maybe not as much to do with it, but definitely something. As an owner of a '79 Ovation custom balladeer, I can say that the tone is completely *different* than any other guitar I have ever played, and I love it to death. That said, that sound doesn't appeal to everyone, and all solid wood instruments definitely have a different sound than solid top/laminate-or-plastic-sides and back.

A guy named Django did Ok with a guitar that had a laminated back and sides....this guy named Mario figured out how to make plastic sound ok too!

ukegirl said:

A guy named Django did Ok with a guitar that had a laminated back and sides....this guy named Mario figured out how to make plastic sound ok too!

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Do you really want an instrument that sounds "OK",....or one that sounds "GREAT" and gets better over time?

Also,.....pride of ownership and knowing the ukulele was made of top tier materials goes a long way to long term satisfaction in owning it. A Rolex watch isn't as accurate in absolute terms as a cheap Timex quartz watch,......but who needs better than 2-5 seconds a day accuracy in the real world?

I will quarantee the Rolex will last longer if properly cared for, maintain it's value over time (especially if bought used but in excellent condition),.....and will put a smile on your face every day you wear it.

A solid wood ukulele that is well built will also maintain it's value, also especially when bought used and built by a well respected builder. And the smile on on your face will be the same.

joejeweler said:

Do you really want an instrument that sounds "OK",....or one that sounds "GREAT" and gets better over time?

Also,.....pride of ownership and knowing the ukulele was made of top tier materials goes a long way to long term satisfaction in owning it. A Rolex watch isn't as accurate in absolute terms as a cheap Timex quartz watch,......but who needs better than 2-5 seconds a day accuracy in the real world?

I will quarantee the Rolex will last longer if properly cared for, maintain it's value over time (especially if bought used but in excellent condition),.....and will put a smile on your face every day you wear it.

A solid wood ukulele that is well built will also maintain it's value, also especially when bought used and built by a well respected builder. And the smile on on your face will be the same.

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Couldn't be said better, as I am both an ukulele and a watch junkie.

Scott

I have an old Yamaha guitar that I own since the 70's and it is laminated. Beleive me, the sound did not get better, it is much worst over the years. Laminated, is very thin layers glued together. There is no strenght in the wood, it is the glue that holds it together. If you try two equal instruments with the same top and one has solid maple back and sides while the other has rosewood back and sides, you will clearly hear the difference. The wood for back and sides does play a part in the sound.

You can make a string instrument out of anything that will hold the strings and it will make a sound. If you think plastics, cardboard, tin or jello sounds good then you will be easier to please then others. The original question is will laminates make a difference in the sound and the correct answer is yes. Do you think anybody would be collecting and playing old Martin or Kamaka ukes if the backs, sides or tops were made of laminates? The answer is no because they wouldn't be around to play and they would sound like the crap they are made of.

I would think the number one thing that most folks are interested in when purchasing a good instrument is the sound. To get really good sound the instrument has to be made with the best materials by someone who has the ability to build it right. IMO, solid wood is the way to achieve the best sound for now and years down the road.

Django Reinhardt is the Django I was referring to and "ok" was a bit tongue in cheek, and the Mario I referenced is Mario Maccaferri....I've owned a Rolex and sold it as I did not care for it(yes a real one)....the point I was making was that build quality goes a long way and materials just count for so much...I've owned and played both solid and Laminated Martins (guitars) and the DM's I played sounded every bit as good as a D-18 or a D-16 (better than the D-16 quite honestly) But you are right, the DM was a lot less expensive up front, and they do not hold value like a D-18..but still a great sounding guitar that played well. I guess I like workhorse style instruments that I do not have to worry so much about when traveling or playing...I've seen my far share of really expensive instruments get knocked off stands on stage resulting in a lot of heart ache...My whole point just was that a well built and properly braced laminate instrument can sound better than a poorly made solid one..not looking for a fight, just adding my experience to the collective...

I understand the love of solid wood ukes, but..... one of the most lively ukes I have ever played was all laminate. The Kiwaya KS-1 is all laminate and it rocks.
The Review: http://ukeeku.com/2011/01/11/kiwaya-ks-1-full-review/
The reason is that it is a special laminate that was produced for sound and made super thin. One point that I think is being missed is the use of laminates as a way to not have to brace the uke as much. the best built ukes have very little bracing since it can impeed the sound. By using a laminate you can eliminate bracing in a small instrument like a ukulele all together if you wanted to, no one does, but it can be done if the laminate is made for the purpose of making an instrument. The loudedest most booming guitar I own is a Guild D4. it has laminate sides and backs. The amzing thing about it is the fact is has no bracing on the back. they made the back curved like a violin back to help project the sound. If it can be done on a guitar, it can be done on a uke.

I will leave with this, and I expect to be yelled at for this. The materials have very little to do with the sound of an instrument. it is the maker and design that make the biggest difference. We have been brain washed a bit into the idea that specific woods make a difference in the sound. reality is that to work with the different woods pushes people to make decisions on how they have to treat the wood in the proccess of making the ukulele (How thin can they plain it, how does it bend, does it need a thicker finish since it dents, pour filling,...)the skill and process and the hundreds of little things that go into the instrument are what makes it sound the way that it does. Using a laminate can be a choice to use a diffent technology that can help make the sound better. I have found that if the company can not make a good sounding laminate, then they also can't make an all solid one either (Ibanez)

Short answer- It matters , but not that much.just get the best you can afford that sounds and plays good.

longer answer- I own and play all solid [KoAloha;.Gibson.Kiwaya] . solid top only [Lanakai], laminate, part plastic. and all plastic.[Islander, Kala]IMHO the materials do matter, but so does the design and skill of the builder.Sound is subjective.All of my ukes sound different and I like the differences.

It seems this conversation is a little off the original question which was for a laminate back and sides with solid wood top, not an all laminate. That said it has been an interesting conversation. I have a luthier made laminate back and sides with solid top and love it. It is well made, a dream to play. I couldn't compare if the sound was comparable as an all solid wood without playing a solid wood made my the same luthier. The sound is sweet, but not my best sounding, or my worse. Well that was a ramble. Sorry, more coffee needed.

Laminate construction, by it's inherent nature, has a lot more variables than solid. As such, it's really impossible to make the kind of simplistic generalizations found in this thread.

It's also not necessary to characterize others as "easy to satisfy" owners of "jello" & "crap".