Deportee

Photographs are taken from the New York public library. All of them
are immigrants coming into the United States at the turn of the century.
Being a Scot living in Finland, it is a good thing to be accepted in a
country that is not your own.



Oh and it should be a waltz but I have done it in 4/4 time... what else could you expect

This is one of Woody's all time greats. I like your performance of it very much.

I am trying not to be insulted by your choice of images. As a Scot living in Finland, I suppose you don't know the history of that crash, or the circumstances.

None of the people you pictured were Deportees. None of the Ellis Island immigrants died at Los Gatos.

I suggest you take another stab at your imagery. Your performance fits the mood of the tragedy.

Absolutely amazing version of this tune. As a person who calls the subject of this tune "neighbor" and "friend", this one hits close to home. Have to agree with Dirk and say that the images need to be more focused on braceros to really bring the video home- the rendition however is without fault- it is stunning.

southcoastukes said:

This is one of Woody's all time greats. I like your performance of it very much.

I am trying not to be insulted by your choice of images. As a Scot living in Finland, I suppose you don't know the history of that crash, or the circumstances.

None of the people you pictured were Deportees. None of the Ellis Island immigrants died at Los Gatos.

I suggest you take another stab at your imagery. Your performance fits the mood of the tragedy.

Click to expand...

First of all let me say that everything you say is true, and it was never
my intention to insult anybody by using the images that I used.

I usually use archive.org if I am looking for videos to go with a song and searching
for "immigrants" or "mexican" did not turn up anything significant. Only a Mexican
hat dance or two which were not appropriate. Even when searching for images of
Los Gatos plane crash I was astonished at the paucity of images relating to the event,
most of the hits were just images of Guthrie himself.

I then turned to "The commons" on Flickr and found some portraits that I thought
quite stunning. All of them of immigrants waiting to get into the promised land,
and all of them apparently accepted.

Perhaps you believe that the song should be tied to history and it has to be specific,
whereas I believe the song has a more universal meaning. Namely the treatment of
displaced peoples, or laws regarding emigration.

In Europe you have the French breaking up refugee camps in Calais and flying
people back to Romania. You have boat people coming from Albania and landing
in Bari and Brindisi in Italy. You have Cubans fleeing to Miami, and in the recent
past the boat people of Vietnam seeking refuge in any country that would have them.
And even in the USA there is a degree of contention still about illegal immigrants from Mexico.

It was with this in mind that I used the images from the turn of the century where
people of different race and colour were welcomed into America... preferring to
make a broad universal interpretation, rather than narrow and specific... which had
proved to be impossible anyway.

*I hope that explains my position, and thank you once again for the comment.

TCK said:

Absolutely amazing version of this tune. As a person who calls the subject of this tune "neighbor" and "friend", this one hits close to home. Have to agree with Dirk and say that the images need to be more focused on braceros to really bring the video home- the rendition however is without fault- it is stunning.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your comment and I hope I have addressed the point regarding my use of
images not associated with the disaster.

Before recording the song I listen to many different versions and did extensive research
into the background of the song and here are a few points I would like to make.

1) Why did Guthrie write the song

In actual fact it was originally a poem, and*a decade later, Guthrie's poem was set to
music by a schoolteacher named Martin Hoffman.*Guthrie had been struck by the fact
that radio and newspaper coverage of the event did not give the victims' names, but
instead referred to them merely as "deportees." For example, none of the deportees'
names were printed in the January 29, 1948 New York Times report, only those of the
flight crew and the security guard.

Today if there is a major tragedy I cannot imagine that names would be omitted on the basis of ethnicity.

2) Guthrie and the*Bracero Program
Some say that "Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos)" betrays Woody Guthrie's lack of understanding
regarding the Bracero Program, which was instituted in 1942, that permitted Mexican farm laborers
(or braceros) to work in the United States due to the severe labor shortages caused by World War II.

Perhaps it would be cynical to suggest that once the war was over in 1945 there was no more need
for Mexican labour.*However, it could be argued that Guthrie's song is less about the Bracero Program
itself and more a comment on the attitude of American society and the media towards the Mexican
farm laborers.

That would be my position. Even though the song deals with a specific historical incident the more
important universal message is "mans inhumanity to man" This is reinforced by the fact that*Guthrie
assigned symbolic names to the dead: "Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita; adiós, mis amigos,
Jesús y María" which gives some dignity to the un-named dead.

3)Guthrie and Government.
In addition to being a lament for the braceros killed in the crash, the opening lines
of "Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos)":

"The crops are all in and the peaches are rott'ning,
The oranges piled in their creosote dumps."

I never really got that line about "creosote dumps", but at the time, government policies
paid farmers to destroy their crops in order to keep farm production and prices high.
Guthrie felt that it was wrong to render food inedible by poisoning it in a world where
hungry people lived.

Here in Finland there is a policy started by the EU called "Pakkettipelto"="Packagedfields"
whereby farmers are paid NOT to grow crops as a way of controlling prices. It is crazy
what governments do.

So my stance is that even though the song is rooted to a specific time and place,
the theme is more universal and gives succour to nobler aspirations of the human*
spirit, and hence photos of immigrants who obtain acceptance and solace instead
of rejection are in my opinion entirely appropriate.

wee_ginga_yin (and others) - I love this song, first heard it on XM's folk channel and assumed it was current, then learned it was one of Woody's. Yet another all time great. Superb rendition. I have learned much from this thread, also. Both of my parents are Soviet immigrants (you could say I have Hitler to blame for my creation). This is an issue that is near and dear to my heart.

Another good one, wee.... I really enjoy the individual stamp you put on every tune, while maintaining whatever it is that makes the style of the original unique..... Wee, the Mighty Interpreter...... well done, sir.....

wee_ginga_yin said:

Here in Finland there is a policy started by the EU called "Pakkettipelto"="Packagedfields"
whereby farmers are paid NOT to grow crops as a way of controlling prices. It is crazy
what governments do.

Click to expand...

They don't like us getting too political 'round these parts but I couldn't let this pass - it seems Finland is taking lessons from the US. We've paid farmers not to farm for decades. Originally, it was instituted as a policy that was supposed to save small farms by keeping prices high enough that a family farm could actually turn enough profit to keep the family on the farm. Most of those farms have been bought up by huge corporations precisely because of these "subsidies." The family farm is rapidly becoming a thing of the past and it's mostly because these government subsidies made having a "farm" a huge cash cow for companies to suck in government money.

BTW, loved the video because I've always loved the song even though most would consider me a pretty staunch conservative. I may still do the song - I think it's one of the most meaningful bits Woodie ever wrote.

John

(Edited because "to" != "too")

wee_ginga_yin said:

First of all let me say that everything you say is true, and it was never my intention to insult anybody by using the images that I used...searching...for "immigrants" or "mexican" did not turn up anything significant.... I was astonished at the paucity of images relating to the event...

(I) found some portraits that I thought quite stunning. All of them of immigrants waiting to get into the promised land,
and all of them apparently accepted....

It was with this in mind that I used the images from the turn of the century where people of different race and colour were welcomed into America... preferring to make a broad universal interpretation, rather than narrow and specific... which had proved to be impossible anyway.

So my stance is that even though the song is rooted to a specific time and place, the theme is more universal and gives succour to nobler aspirations of the human* spirit, and hence photos of immigrants who obtain acceptance and solace instead of rejection are in my opinion entirely appropriate.

Click to expand...

First let me say I had never heard your music before this post. I decided to listen because this song was one of my favorites. My loss - I've listened to some others and truly admire what you do.

I also understand the problem you had finding images. After all, these people didn't amount to much - "just deportees" - that was the point of the song.

With that said, I still don't think in this case what you did was "entirely approrpriate". It occured to me as I watched it that the only way it made sense is that if you were trying to draw a contrast between those who obtained "acceptance and solace" vs those who did not.

I cannot help but see this from a Mexican point of view. In addition to a long time spent in Central America, I also lived for several years in Mexico. If you had ever stood on the parapets at the "Halls of Montezuma" and heard what happened there I'm sure you would not have been so cavalier.

Any Mexican hearing this song, and seeing pictures of foreigners who were treated so differently than they were treated by their fellow "Americans" could not help but question why you did this. I know you are far removed from our Americas. Still, I was hoping you would say you chose these pictures for the tragic irony.

southcoastukes said:

Any Mexican hearing this song, and seeing pictures of foreigners who were treated so differently than they were treated by their fellow "Americans" could not help but question why you did this. I know you are far removed from our Americas. Still, I was hoping you would say you chose these pictures for the tragic irony.

Click to expand...

Dirk -

With all respect, I think you might be generalizing a bit and missing Robert's point. While America has been celebrated as a 'melting pot', nearly every wave of immigration, from every part of the world, has met with some form of discrimination or another. While it was easier for white Europeans to settle in after a generation or two, I don't think the Irish or the Polish or the Germans necessarily had an easy time of it when they first arrived here and were often as exploited and abused as Latinos have been in the more recent past. The images Robert includes have people of color from all over the world, as well - not all of them are folks who got 'acceptance and solace'.

I think Robert - as he said - is trying to represent the more fundamental implications of what Guthrie's lyrics are telling us about emigration and the treatment of displaced peoples. Personally, I think it works really well. On the one hand we have the horrible incident related in the narrative of the verse and on the other, striking images of the 'melting pot'. The song could have been about Japanese Americans interned during WWII or Native Americans deliberately infected with small pox or Chinese laborers worked to death building railroads in the SW desert - in any of these cases, I think the images would have worked just as well.

Aye WEE- you know I have nothing but respect for you and that which you create (which is very often brilliant)- had no idea you would defend yourself so rigorously, but I appreciate all you have written here. I guess a disclaimer is necessary. I grew up close enough to Los Gatos to spit on it, and I lived in a world of hate. White folks (of which I am one) making more money than I could ever imagine...it was a thing with me then, and still is. I hated every minute of that existence. and the people I was surrounded by.
Then I moved to Sonoma County (Cloverdale for those who are still in the lurch) and the Mexican Americans we had such disdain for when I was a kid, well, they do everything here-everything us crackers do not want to do. 4000 people in my town of 7500 are Mexican American, and I have learned a lot about them. Every time I see one of them do something I will not...I think of this tune. Every time I see one of them persecuted, I think of this tune. When I see 16 of them huddled in one house, 1100 square feet (like the one across the street, and the one directly behind my fence), I think of this tune.
Do they have value and purpose here? Yes. DO they fuel the economy I am locked in...yes. Do I have a major soft spot for them- yes. I am caught in the ultimate catch 22 with them. As I drove to work today, I noted that their were about 100 people out in a vineyard pruning (it was 38 degrees, and 7 AM). On one hand, I though "thank god I am not doing that right now", and on the other I thought "those fine people will put food on my table this year".
Don't get me wrong mate, your video, and your rendition is absolutely beautiful. Knowing the history tainted my view here- and it should not have. I should have known you had put all that thought into making it, and I apologize for enforcing my narrow view onto your imagery. Please know I am surrounded by wonderful, hard working people every day, and they are known as "Deportee".
You have made one hell of a video here mate.
I guess that is all I got.
Bless up from the dirty WOP who lost his name to the same game.

ckellogg said:

wee_ginga_yin (and others) - I love this song, first heard it on XM's folk channel and assumed it was current, then learned it was one of Woody's. Yet another all time great. Superb rendition. I have learned much from this thread, also. Both of my parents are Soviet immigrants (you could say I have Hitler to blame for my creation). This is an issue that is near and dear to my heart.

Click to expand...

Indeed in times of trouble, be it war or economic or political unrest
there is always a movement of people across borders, and most of
them have a basic longing for a better life, without fear or hunger.
Recent history is full of it... famine in Ethiopia, civil war in Bosnia or Darfur
Partition of muslims to Pakistan and Bangladesh by the Indian government,
Refugee camps, displaced people.