1920s Martin expert needed

jrg12

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Hey guys,

Brand new to the site and am blown away with this community!

I have a Martin Style 0 Soprano ukulele. Made between 1916 and 1930 (from what I can tell by markings, etc).

The only thing that is throwing me off is that it has old Grover Ukulele Vintage Tuners with Ivoroid Buttons (see picture below). I don't think that this came standard with this Ukulele? Does anyone know the story with this and if it adds any value, etc?

Thank you in advance!

This picture is of a set of the tuners I found online. They are the same as the ones on my instrument.

Grover tuners.jpg

Style 0 Soprano.
Mahogany body.
12 fret rosewood fingerboard with bar frets.
C.F.Martin & Co. stamped on back of headstock.
Small dot inlays (single dot on 7th fret).
Ring decoration around the sound hole.
Grover tuners
 
From what I've read, the Style 0 was introduced in 1922 (as a cheaper alternative to the Style 1, which had been the least expensive of the original models), and came only with wooden friction pegs until 1927 or so (and again during WWII when materials were limited). The tuners you have are pretty top-of-the-line, I think. They're on my Style 3, but not on my Style 2. So... This is just a guess, but I'd say that either 1: they were an optional upgrade; 2: A worker grabbed the wrong tuners by mistake; or 3: (and most likely in my opinion) Martin didn't always use the same tuners.
 
I have identical tuners on my '28 Johnny Marvin, I'm pretty sure they were top of the line at the time.

P8230034.jpg


The Johnny Marvin was one of the best or may have been the best, most professional ukulele that Harmony produced, so it makes sense that they'd use Grovers instead of wood pegs. Martin, from what I understand, shifted to the Grovers in the late 20's as stock in all of their ukuleles (this info per a local shop guy who has been collecting Martin guitars and ukes for 50 or so years).

They still work great even today in the Marvin, although you really, really have to be aware of humidity changes. I took my uke out to jam with a friend on a cold night this week and by the time I got to their place not ten minutes away, it was out of tune. Holds tune fine inside and in the summer, but man those things lose all hold when it gets dry!
 
I think that Chris is right and I've seen those tuners on other pre-1932 Martins ukes. The problem with tuners is you never know if they are original or replacements if they're the right vintage for the uke, and without wooden tuners you don't know when in the pre-1932 period that uke was made. An expert on vintage American stringed instruments also told me that in the early years there was a lot of variation within a given model made by a manufacturer because essentially all these ukes were hand-built and sometimes craftsmen liked to add their own personal touches. You can always say they're original; they're consistent with the age of the uke and high quality tuners.
 
I agree with Gary and Chris. They are the same tuners that are on all my pre-1932 Martins, including my 1K. Although they may not have been original to your instrument, they are of the period and very good quality. I don't believe they are detrimental to the value of your ukulele, if that is of concern.
 
Here are the two different tuners I have on my Martin Style 2 and 3, which are both from right around 1930. The foreground shows the Grovers on the Style 3, while the background is the Style 2. The tuners on the Style 2 are not quite as fancy, but seem to be equally good.
IMG_0443.jpg
 
I agree with Chris and others that the tuning pegs you show and describe could possibly be original to the ukulele. Do they have imprinted on the sides "Grover Patent" or do they have no imprint? I think that this could possibly help answer if they are replacement pegs or not. I have a "few" old Martin ukuleles, and all have wooden pegs but 1. That one with Grover barrels is the oldest Martin ukulele I have (most likely 1917) and it is a style 2. Even they may be replacement pegs. They have the "Grover Patent" imprint on the side. It also happens that I have over time purchased a couple sets of these same barrel pegs. Only one of the sets I have purchased are marked "Grover patent", the others are not and I have always thought of those without as being newer replacement type pegs. I could be wrong, but it is an observation I have made.
Is the nut and saddle material for your ukulele a light wood, or ebony (have seen mahogany also)?
 
One way you can narrow it down is to pull one out and see if the hole is tapered (bigger on the underside of the headstock as opposed to the top of the headstock. If the holes are not tapered you can surmise that it always had mechanical friction tuners and if they are tapered it may have had wood pegs.

Either way, they are old tuners. I don't think they add to the value, but they don't detract either. If it had pegs originally, it would have been nice if it were left that way, but it doesn't really matter IMO.
 
Wow! You guys are awesome! I can't believe how fast you answered my post. Thank you!

To answer a few questions:
1. The tuners are stamped with "Grover Patent" on the side.
2. The nut and saddle seem to be made out of wood and are black.
3. I'm a little hesitant to remove the tuners on something this old to check to see if it has a tapered bore. Too many times I have caused more damage than necessary messing around with things that were not broken :eek:

I am attaching a few additional pictures of my ukulele for you to see. The last picture shows a small ding/dent on the base. This is really the only issue with it.

It seems like this ukulele goes for about $900. Does that sound right to you guys?

I am thinking about trading this instrument for a guitar. Do you have any suggestions on the best place to sell or trade? Obviously, this site has a forum but I would be nervous about damage during shipment.

photo 1.jpgphoto 2.jpgphoto 3.JPGphoto 4.JPGphoto 5.jpg
 
There are a number of us who "watch" Martin ukes on ebay and we/they can give you estimates. I've been doing it for the last year and have purchased a Martin 1M and 2M both in excellent condition and both for significantly less than $900 and both are more valuable models than the 0. We uke players all have our own opinions <g> although there generally is consensus on factual issues like your tuner question. As for pricing, there was a Martin 0 that recently went for ~900 but I thought that was a crazy price and I think that others here on the list also were surprised. The typical ebay price seems to be around $500 for a 0 in very good condition but this can vary widely. However I doubt you'll have many takers if you price this at 900 unless you find someone who is willing to pay a "brick and mortar" price, which would be significantly higher than an ebay price. I do think that the uke market is soft now so premium prices are an exception rather than the rule. It is a very nice uke. Good luck, g2
 
I'm with Chris and the others. These are tuners from the late 20s, they're on my Gibson ukes and I've seen them on Martins. I think Chris's answer #3 is the right one: Martin used different tuners at different times.

Contemporaneous with the date of manufacture, I'd say. Don't even bother dismantling one to check if the hole was drilled. I would not even bother to venture opinion as to their originality when selling. No buyer will question if you're trying to put something over on them. They're old Grovers, Martin used Grovers in the 20's, even if not original, they're as old as the uke. And frankly, I don't know many players that get upset if the uke from the 20's they're considering doesn't have violin tuners. They are difficult to get used to and even then, not much fun to work with as strings are settling in or you're going from a cold street into a warm club. Yuck.

I was just looking at a style 3 from the early-mid 30's over the weekend. The friction tuners were Grovers and they worked GREAT; still functioning perfectly.
 
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