what is this side bending tool ?

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kkmm

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhu0BG5yVY0

The link above show Pete Howlett method to hand bend the sides of an uke. He uses a vertical cylinder to do the manual bending.
I am curious to know how this cylinder works. Is it in metal and heated hot to a certain temperature to bend the keep the side in the bended shape ? And just spraying water on the side wood is all that is needed.
It look so simple to me, but I am sure there is something I miss here.
 
No, you're not missing anything; you're just not quite believing what you're seeing.

This is standard operating procedure for hand bending. Used to be done with a brass or copper pipe heated with flaming alcohol soaked cotton balls!
 
not quite as easy as Pete makes it look... unless you have practice, but a very effective tool. I am learning one now..
 
Sorry, couldn't help myself! Still waiting for the wood mate, and might still for a while. Ye olde Royal Swedish Post has a bad habit of endless vacations and poor service. I'll certainly let you know when it turns up.

S
 
You are right, I just can't believe how easy one can bend the side wood. Now I understand, the man is a pro and has done hundreds (or thousands) of them, that's why it looks so easy. It's good to know that one can do this (even with a lot of difficulty) in the garage.
I am an engineer, love to design things, and ensivion that it's not that difficult to make a mold to bend the side. Just spray the wood wet, put in the mold and squeeze the mold to press the wood slowly (in many phases with settling time apart) until both sides of the mold got squeezed to the max. Adding hot steaming to the apparatus seems to be a good idea too.
I am curreently bidding on a tenor kit where the sides are already bent to shape. Hope that I win the bid, once I got this one built, I will attempt a scratch build.
I just finish building a F-style mandolin from a kit and enjoy playing it.
Building instruments seem to catch me and I will turn it into a hobby when I retire (in a few years).
 
I don't know any professional who would advise wet bending with steam - that is a boat building technique. As an engineer you will appreciate that wood as a thermo plastic bends most effectively 'dry'. Water often has an adverse effect causing 'cockling' and is only used to stop scorching.

Plenty people visit this forum ask a question which is a thinly disguised request to ratify a bizarre process. They then go off and do their own thing only to return with pleas for a 'fix' to the problem caused because they didn't lisen in the first place. Be forewarned - this forum has seen it all before :)
 
Thank you, Pete. You just saved me from having to start the day with snarky comments...

The one other reason for a bit of water is that it helps carry the heat deep into the wood. Wood is kind of an insulator; water is not.
 
ask a question which is a thinly disguised request to ratify a bizarre process
Click to expand...
I feel somewhat shocked with this comment. It is OK to speak out idea, no matter how bizarre it is, to get feedback from experts.
If the expert feedback says: NO, don't do that. Then I got the good answer I am looking for. A good answer does not have to be: good idea, go ahead with it.
By the way, there is also article about steam wood bending here. It's not that bizarre at all.
http://www.allwoodwork.com/article/woodwork/methods_of_bending_wood.htm
 
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kkmm said:
By the way, there is also article about steam wood bending here. It's not that bizarre at all.
Click to expand...

The key words in that article are " The general rule of time is about 1 hour for every inch of thickness being steamed. Use this as a starting point, and adjust your time as needed."
When bending gunwales for 17' boats, where two 1 1/2" lengths were used per side, it was nearer two hours in the steamer to bring them to a suitable pliability. And, it's a lot of paraphernalia for a simple job. (We used PVC drainage pipe with the steam source being a simple wallpaper stripper)

However, I would never have even considered Pete's bending Iron to do the job, it just wouldn't be practicable! That is just an electric version of a 'hot pipe', and can be mocked up far more easily (and safely) than using a blow-torch. I use a simple length of metal pipe fitted horizontally to the bench and a hot air gun mounted to fire through the pipe. The end of the pipe is lightly stuffed with wire wool to stop the heat being fired straight out the end but allowing enough through-flow of air to stop the gun ( a $20 diy version) melting from the blow-back. (It also stops my apron catching fire if I'm standing in front of the pipe for too long!! ;)
 
Bending with steam is not bizzare per se, but pick up your uke and look at how thin the wood is. Now imagine what a piece of wood that thin would look like when steamed. The term "crinkle cut" comes to mind.

As an engineer you may be used only to working with materials which have reasonably uniform properties, such as metals. Wood has a mind of its own, and needs to be persuaded to become a musical instrument.

Given that some of those posting here are internationally-known top uke-makers, it's sensible to ask questions rather than making assertions (unless you have discovered something by experiment, in which case they are always fascinated to find out). Something like: "I know that wood can be bent with steam - so can the same technique be used to bend uke sides?" Then you not only get the answer ("No, unless you want wavy sides") but probably also some useful advice about what does work.

The posters here are very kind about damn fool questions, but are fed up with being presented with damn fool solutions.
 
The posters here are very kind about damn fool questions, but are fed up with being presented with damn fool solutions.
Click to expand...

Our resident experts also have expressed that folks with basic questions should do some research before asking, which I think is a reasonable request. For example, there are lots of threads in this forum and many videos on YouTube about side bending. Remember, your newbie questions, no matter how well intentioned, probably have been asked many times before.
 
I rather thought the video I shot dispelled most questions and modelled the process quite clearly.
 
Don't take me wrong, I do respect Pete's video on youtube as I learned a lot from it.
And now I also know that
The posters here are very kind about damn fool questions, but are fed up with being presented with damn fool solutions.
Click to expand...
In my career (not luthier world of course), "breaking the paradigm and try unusal solutions" are very acceptable and welcome to make progress.
But in instrument building, I am a newbie, so I will restraint myself from speaking out "damn fool solutions" from now on.
 
This really is a craft that has pretty much worked out all the wrinkles. The only 'new' way of bending I could possibly imagine would be microwave heating the wood. However, even if this were possible (and I've tried micro waving bridge blanks) you can be certain that Taylor would be using it! I am not being harsh. I trained as a treacher of craft related subjects at a forward thinking college that taught me cabinet making, engineering, plastics and art metalwork technologies over 3 years and where in my fourth year I spent the best part of all my time (bearing in mind it was a double honours course and I should have put more effort into The Four Quartets and Shakespeare) building musical instruments. I designed and built art deco inspired furniture for 8 years and am steeped in hand craft traditions. I am always inspired by what Earnest the workshop technician once said to me back in 1976 when he was doing a tedious repetative process: "There must be a better way if doing this!" So I have always looked for the better way and my videos are end points - destinations that demonstrate I have looked at it from all angles and this is the best that works for me. It isn't THE way but it is MY way - so please remember that when I make my acerbic comments :)
 
Pete,
I never had any doubt about your qualifications related to instrument building. Your methods are of course proven the years, no question about that. I will follow these methods as close as I can.
It was just my habits (from my career) demanding me to think ahead: can I do thing differently ? In my field and where I live, process of doing things change so fast and it has to be. Companies that cannot keep up with the changes simply disappear. I can see that this does not apply with luthery now. It did with woodcraft though (e.g. master carpenters are careers of the past).
 
kkmm said:
It was just my habits (from my career) demanding me to think ahead: can I do thing differently ?
Click to expand...

I completely understand that thought process, as Lean Six is a way of life for me, and out of the box solutions are a goal constant, I also mustn't forget the basics. That said, I now know why you'd rather find a way to extend your saddle for compensation rather than change your strings first. I'm a little disappointed in that you are an engineer, and didn't relate that fact that fretting a thicker gauge string will require more compensation than a thinner one. Even if you weren't an engineer, all that's needed to firgure that out is a glance at a compensated instrument, say, electric bass.

Again, I now understand your thought process. I don't agree with it in the saddle case, but I understand it.

Btw, welcome to the forum. I think you'll find thoughts like yours will fit right at home in Uke Talk. Here, guys like Rick and Pete have been around too long, and this is no reference to their age. :)

BTW, if you think master carpenters are a career of the past, what does that make instrument builders? Pete's vid showed what Bob Taylor cannot afford to do. Yet, both methods exist. I do disagree with Pete that hand bending is faster. I call bending the easiest 5 minute process of the build. But, both of our methods are viable, and they both will exist in our lifetimes, along with Bob's.

Aaron
 
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The annoying thing is I would machine bend if i could get decent blankets of the correct dimension here in the UK. Watlow, our only supplier got a blanket for me that was useless - lasted best part of a year, wasn't to spec and failed. I do use blankets got from Hana Lima but they aren't really wide enough. I want Bob Taylors solution which i believe kamaka now use....
 
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