martin cracks

Bought a pre-32 Martin the other day via the bay and it was shipped from Iowa to Georgia. The guy said it had one small crack, but it's got one large crack and about 4-5 other small cracks. Could that have happened somehow via temperature or humidity changes between here and Iowa. It's clear from the description and the guitar strings and dust that were on it that the seller doesn't know anything about ukes. TIA, g2

be that as it may, there is something (oh how I wish I knew this as a n00b ebayer) called SNAD or "significantly not as described." You can politely ask seller to accept return as the item had more cracks than described (typical for the small sharp practices of small time sellers) and see what he'll do. Be a man of honor or argue. If the latter, you file SNAD with Ebay and they will take care of it. Have the pictures from the listing if you can get them before they are taken down.

Sorry to hear about this, Gary. I recently purchased a Roy Smeck uke from an Ebay seller (I've one like it for a few years, but wanted one in better shape) that was advertised as being in "excellent condition." From what I could see in the pictures, it appeared to be in great shape, except for some strum wear. When it arrived, it had a small (1/2") crack at the bridge and, more problematically, several cracks in the back, which while not all the way through, made it such that the back could be pushed in with the slightest touch. I don't know whether the back issues were the result of drying, it may be so. I contacted the seller indicating that the uke was not as described and listed the problems. She wasn't very receptive, to say the least. Finally, after several exchanges back and forth, she told me to ship it back, stating that she would refund me if the ukulele was in the same condition it was when she sent it. She also made some snide comment about my expectations of an older uke and suggested that I should buy a cheap new uke instead. I wrote and said that I would expect a refund even if she could see the problems I noted when she got it back regardless of whether she believed they were not there when she sent it to me. Then, I sent it back. I don't have a good feeling about it.

Then, I bought some cheap uke because I wanted to paint it. It was listed "Buy It Now" for $25.99, shipping included. I paid for it immediately. A few days later, I got a notice that my money had been refunded because the seller, a new E-bayer was having logistical trouble with Ebay. I wrote to him and asked him to let me know when the problems were resolved so we could complete the transaction. A few days later, the listing reappeared except the BIN price was $70.00. I'm fuming.

I have not yet left feedback for either of these purchases/non-purchases. Until now, my experiences with E-bay sellers have all been good. I have never left negative feedback. Lately, it seems sellers don't care whether I leave good feedback or not, or even about ethical selling.

Hi Howard, sorry to hear about your experiences too. I went back and looked at the pics and some of the cracks clearly are visible so who knows what's going on. But they clearly were there at the beginning. I've been buying and selling on ebay since '98 and it is definitely the wild west but I'm a bit surprised by this. It will all work out. I'll take it to my luthier friend tomorrow and he'll be able to glue the cracks. Paying $375 for a pre-32 Martin style 1 means that I can put some money in it and not feel bad about the purchase. The Grover tuners alone are worth 75, and I always wanted a great beater uke. I've found that sellers don't generally respond positively to these situations so I'm just going to forget about it. cheers, g

Ugh- good old Ebay. I once bought an accordion (a long time ago) on Ebay- Paolo Soprani, hand made reeds, described as a "great player'...though I was too young to note all the pics were taken from similar angles, and none from the back. Accordion arrived with all the reeds floating in the bottom of it and a hole in the back of the bellows. Seller emailed me to tell me that he had spent the money on medical care for his mother...and I was stuck with a POS whose guts are now spread into about 100 accordions.
Back then, the SNAD did not count for much, as I was out the cash for certain. Now it seems safer for sure than it was in those early days. SUre hope you are compensated for the item, as I am looking at the guts of this accordion and wishing I could smash it over someones head for about the millionth time

Nine times out of ten the seller will be minimizing damage and describing it better than it is (on any item.) Then they make up a sob story that their third cousin had a triple bypass, their mom needs rehab and they broke their patella playing Rounders, and so the money can't be returned. I learned that while a certain group of noisy campers-in-public-parks rages about evil big business, it's the little guy that is more apt to cheat people, and does. I have numerous examples.

A few years ago I bought a Martin style 1 on Ebay. It came from a supposedly well known music store whose owner is supposedly a writer on vintage instruments for a well known magazine. Anyway
it was listed as being in original condition with no cracks. When I received it , the bridge was broken off and reglued so poorly you could see daylight underneath and globs of glue. After some arguing back and forth he took it back but I ended up losing about 100 bucks for postage and handling. I really freaked when I got it , didnt go through Ebay ( I dont think they were so helpful back then) but got most of my 7 hundred back. I have steam coming out my ears right now thinking about it. The owner was a real @$$hole .

Gwynedd said:

Nine times out of ten the seller will be minimizing damage and describing it better than it is (on any item.) Then they make up a sob story that their third cousin had a triple bypass, their mom needs rehab and they broke their patella playing Rounders, and so the money can't be returned. I learned that while a certain group of noisy campers-in-public-parks rages about evil big business, it's the little guy that is more apt to cheat people, and does. I have numerous examples.

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Wait, what does the Occupy movement have to do with getting scammed on Ebay? Are you seriously blaming Occupy for that? Different issues, and one of them is political.

As for the OP, some of us go out of our way to describe every possible blemish, because we don't want to have to go through the nightmare of disputes and we want people to know what they're buying, probably the majority of us on this forum. I've seen Martins in a local luthier's shop getting small cracks repaired. Luthiers see that stuff as routine with older instruments. Maybe it's worth seeing if it can be/is worth being salvaged. Not that I don't agree, the guy totally glossed over need-to-know things about the condition.

Okay, since this thread has changed from "can the uke have cracked in transit" to "uke sellers that ripped me off" I think that everyone has had a bad experience with ebay but in fact, I'll take partial responsibility for my purchase. After receiving the uke and then going back and looking at the pictures, some of the cracks are visible. OTOH I did ask if there were any cracks and he said that he looked at it and there was only one. I'll probably write him and ask for a partial refund but I'm okay with my purchase if a bit disappointed. What I should have realized is that few people were bidding on that uke and that should have tipped me off. After all, things that appear "too good to be true" usually are. But all in all, my uke purchases on ebay have been very positive and that includes 9 ukes purchased in the last year, all vintage. Only one other has been a slight disappointment but the others have been great including a 20's M2 in great condition for ~$675. Of course the uke market has really softened in the last year. When I started looking a year ago a Favilla soprano was $375-500 and now I have no takers for one at $250 in the marketplace. I"m not trying to minimize anyone's bad experiences and ebay is definitely caveat emptor. To better times, g2

I've been ripped off once on E-bay and another time I got a damaged uke (neck broke in two, single boxed, insurance USPS would not honor).

Since then I always do this:

I don't buy from sellers with a small volume - Inexperienced and sometimes slow shipping

I don't buy from sellers with a low prices but high shipping (You know tuners for 3 cents but 7.99 shipping) - Crooks

I don't buy from sellers with less than 99.6% approval.

I read all negative comments on those with 99.6 and above and don't buy from those who don't communicate when there is a problem.

I won't buy a uke/instrument from someone who won't double box.

If I ask a question about an item and don't get a response or the response is slow I figure since they are selling the item this is the fastest/best communication I will get from them. If it is substandard when they are trying to sell me something it wil only be worse if I have a problem. I won't buy from them.

I Goolge their E-bay ID (one time I did not do this until after the fact and found the seller was involved in multiple lawsuits pertaining to the sale of instruments. I finally got my instrument but it took forever and at one point I thought I got ripped off. I always check on Google now.

@UB great advice especially googling the user name, never thought of that. Guy has 100% positive feedback on 400 sales though. cheers, g2

garyg said:

Okay, since this thread has changed from "can the uke have cracked in transit" to "uke sellers that ripped me off" I think that everyone has had a bad experience with ebay but in fact, I'll take partial responsibility for my purchase. After receiving the uke and then going back and looking at the pictures, some of the cracks are visible. OTOH I did ask if there were any cracks and he said that he looked at it and there was only one. I'll probably write him and ask for a partial refund but I'm okay with my purchase if a bit disappointed. What I should have realized is that few people were bidding on that uke and that should have tipped me off. After all, things that appear "too good to be true" usually are. But all in all, my uke purchases on ebay have been very positive and that includes 9 ukes purchased in the last year, all vintage. Only one other has been a slight disappointment but the others have been great including a 20's M2 in great condition for ~$675. Of course the uke market has really softened in the last year. When I started looking a year ago a Favilla soprano was $375-500 and now I have no takers for one at $250 in the marketplace. I"m not trying to minimize anyone's bad experiences and ebay is definitely caveat emptor. To better times, g2

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I have over 5K pos fb on eBay since 1998, and that's after they removed all the duplicates from repeat buyers, which is another 2K.

I have more problems with buyers than I do with sellers. These days the buyers have all the control. There is nothing the seller can do really, if you file a SNAD, the seller may have the entire transaction sucked out of their bank account, will be reprimanded, and may be suspended, while you keep the item. Sellers cannot leave anything but positive feedback so I don't even bother anymore unless I get one first. The detailed seller ratings kill us in search if they go down a notch. I had 1 or 2 people who wanted Priority speed shipping on Medial Mail items so nailed me because it didn't fly across the country in two days. Also I have people who pay late then ding me for "slow" shipping. I over pack to keep things safe from grumpy USPS handlers, and I mail the same or next day.

I believe that all you see on eBay or Amazon or UU or FMM or any other venue is just a cross section of how society really behaves. There's a lot of scummy behavior and also a lot of very ethical people, but most people are probably sliders, they'll get away with whatever they can within reason and have little concept of customer service when they are the one supplying it. So yes, people will under represent an item, and if the photos are taken from 5 feet away, or don't show a whole area (back or side say) then I am especially wary.

Gary, as you said you could see them when you looked later, good for you for then assuming some responsibility for not catching it. I will note that some older people, ahem, need to have their glasses on and be looking under good light at the correct angle to see flaws. I know that I have stuff I never knew was there show up in my photos. I use Photoshop to process my high def photos and my own website to host so I see my photos, the average seller just uploads right from their camera. That's why I take a lot of photos and show life size or much bigger (maybe 400% on flaws). I don't want to be accused of non disclosure, then I could very well be out the money and the item. When I am looking to buy anything, especially ukes, I always look for shadows, bumps, broken lines, anything that might be an indicator of damage.

It seems to me I have not seen any crack free Martins of late for higher prices. I feel like you do, if it felt and sounded really nice, I'd just fix it. I would ask the seller for a little comp, and that is something that sellers complain a lot about, being blackmailed with negative feedback, but in this case because of the item description you have the right to some compensation. If I was the seller, I would say "Oh crap, there are cracks?!" then look at my own photos and say "Yes there are, would a $75. refund help you out?".

Re: ukuleleblues' post, sellers list an item for under .99 cents with high shipping not because they are crooks but so they can list for free. eBay hates that so now punishes that practice by holding any item that doesn't have FREE shipping out of search until the last few hours, and taking a 20% cut of shipping. Buyers don't care that shipping costs the seller real money, that boxes and materials cost money, that packing time and delivery to a shipper are required to ship an item; that should all be free. Then if you include the cost of the shipping in the start price of the item, it doesn't sell because it's "too high". I love working from home right now, but it would pay me better to just give some of my stuff to Goodwill or leave it in the alley, including the ukes I recently sold.

Aside from the fact I think THIS seller was definitely selling an item with a less-than-candid description, you are right. And buyers, now can't get bad feedback for blackmailing for post-sale discounts or the worst, which is "it never arrived!" and then keeping item and money. And leaving bad feedback to boot--this scam is prominent many places. But I think he has a point about the cracks. I would not however ask for compensation unless it is offered by the seller. Because people have pumped this "give me a post sale discount" blackmail and you can't sort it out from the real issues.

Thanks for all the interesting and useful comments folks. I thought that you might be interested in how this all turned out. I do feel that the seller misrepresented the uke, I asked him if there were cracks and he said there was one. So here's what I wrote the seller who did offer me a refund (no comment about shipping costs)
Gregg, I'm going to keep the uke I just don't want to hassle sending it back. This is what the local luthier said "Hi Gary, there is a back brace missing and several cracks, plus the bridge problem. I would want to take the back off and replace the brace, then it will be easy to fix and cleat all the cracks. I need to remove the bridge and reglue it.
It will cost about $200 to do all the repairs."
If you feel like contributing to the repairs that would be most appreciated. If not, well I'm not going to get into a big hassle about this.

Onwards and upwards,
G2


And here was Gregg's reply "Gary, with $200.00 worth of repairs you become the owner of an instrument worth $1k - $1.5k. Enjoy the beautiful sound. Aloha ! Gregg"

So a slider we have, and I will end up paying $575 for a 20's Martin 1M that I can take wherever I want and not worry about it too much. I mean everyone needs a Martin beater uke right <g>. I just can't get too upset about these things, even the guys gross exaggeration of the price and his unwillingness to chip in given his poor description. My research tech of 23 years had a mild stroke last night, now there's something to be concerned about. cheers, g2

Funny how he didn't mention the need for the repairs the first frakking time. Must have slipped his mind when you asked point blank. Honesty is hard.

When you get of over wanting to smash it to pieces, maybe look into making it better. Who cares about collectors going oh no, it's meant to be played.

But give this scammer his well earned negative FB, and then concentrate on the friend who matters.

Hmmm maybe I didn't express myself well, I am having the uke fixed and I wasn't being sarcastic when I said everyone needs a Martin beater uke, I was being wistful about the experience. It really is going to be a uke that I'm going to take everywhere and not worry about it, that is why I kept it. But I guess I sounded like a real snob, or someone really angry. I'm just a bit detached about the whole thing. I did send him an email back saying that his estimate of its value was a joke and that he shouldn't pretend that he was giving me a good deal, but after all he did give me the option of returning the uke for a refund minus shipping. Oh well, enough said. The uke does sound very nice.
Thanks everyone. g2

I think detached is good in this case. The sooner you can put the negative part of this experience behind you, the sooner you can really enjoy the ukulele. And, I agree with you Gary, everyone should have a beater Martin. I bet it sounds great.

No, you didn't sound like a snob and I got that there are much more important things in life. I just forgot that he did offer a refund. You took one for the team by keeping it, because if you sent it back, he'd just try it again and again and again. I bought this bracelet once on ebay, and the first time it came with a clasp that was too small to fit on the matching keeper. Ok, mistakes happen, and the seller sent me a new one. This time, it had no clasp, and no place to put a clasp, and nothing was broken off in shipping. I took pics of both, and said I was keeping both because I didn't want her selling it on to the next person with the same problems. She called me a liar, said I photoshopped it, but no way she was making those herself. Then again, she's on Etsy too, which is a haven for factories masquerading badly as handmade. She's obviously one of those.

Ok, that's not anywhere near a Martin with bonus extra cracks, but it's the same in that keeping it helps it not happen to the next person.

But I agree, it's a story, but ultimately not as important as life.

garyg said:

Hmmm maybe I didn't express myself well, I am having the uke fixed and I wasn't being sarcastic when I said everyone needs a Martin beater uke, I was being wistful about the experience. It really is going to be a uke that I'm going to take everywhere and not worry about it, that is why I kept it. But I guess I sounded like a real snob, or someone really angry. I'm just a bit detached about the whole thing. I did send him an email back saying that his estimate of its value was a joke and that he shouldn't pretend that he was giving me a good deal, but after all he did give me the option of returning the uke for a refund minus shipping. Oh well, enough said. The uke does sound very nice.
Thanks everyone. g2

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Thanks everyone, not that anyone is still interested but I have to admit that this guy did piss me off with his comment about what a great deal I was getting and no admission that he had provided an inaccurate description, so I did send him the following email "Gregg, I don't know what hat you pulled those numbers out of, but in the last 6 months I've bought Martin 1M (40's) and 2M (20's) ukes in excellent condition and with great sound and each was under $700. There is no doubt that the uke was not accurately described and you're lucky that I didn't file a SNAD report. So please don't try to tell me that I got a great deal. I gave you a chance to act with integrity and you passed. later, g2 " End of story. The uke will sound fine and be stable after a bit of work so as Tom Petty once said "It will all work out, eventually"

Good for you, Gary. I believe in turning the other cheek, but you can only take so much before speaking out becomes the right thing to do. Of course he won't do anything about it, but at least he knows that you know that he's a d€#*head. And sometimes , that's the best vengeance there is.