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JanineH
03-02-2012, 01:06 AM
I am about to start teaching ukulele to 7-11 year olds.

I have always played D7 2020 instead of 2223 and have taken some stick from fellow players.

Is this an acceptable way of of playing/teaching D7? The relevant constituent notes are there and I see that the great James Hill uses 2020 in his teaching aids.

It's certainly much easier for small fingers to master.

What do you think?

Kayak Jim
03-02-2012, 01:08 AM
I think its perfectly acceptable.

consitter
03-02-2012, 01:15 AM
I didn't know it was an alternative. It would be much easier. I think I'll try it myself!

JanineH
03-02-2012, 01:18 AM
Cheers, guys - I might be setting a trend here ;)

garyg
03-02-2012, 01:31 AM
I use it all the time, it sounds slightly different, slightly lower and I don't know the technical term for what it's missing but for most songs it works fine, a few sound better with 2223 . BTW when you're giving these notations why do you start at the G string rather than the A string? Not to hijack, just curious. g2

JanineH
03-02-2012, 01:36 AM
BTW when you're giving these notations why do you start at the G string rather than the A string? Not to hijack, just curious. g2

Interesting question - I read left to right on the chord chart. Is that backwards?

Ken Middleton
03-02-2012, 01:44 AM
I use 2020 a lot. The only problem is that it does not contain the root note of the chord (the note D). No problem at all if other instruments (bass, guitar, piano, etc) are playing along. It is usually sounds fine on solo uke too. However, if it sounds a bit empty or slightly wrong, just use 2223 instead.

stevepetergal
03-02-2012, 01:58 AM
It is a sub, technically. But all the notes aren't there. In fact, if you check, the note that's missing is the D, the root of the chord. In many instances this makes it sound a little unsatisfying. If you're playing with a group, and others are playing it a different way (D included), or if you're singing the D at the time, it's fine. No big deal. But by itself, although satisfactory, it really sounds very different. Perhaps you can show up your fellow players by adding the D on top. 2025 (small hand alert)

strumsilly
03-02-2012, 01:59 AM
I am learning a new song and going to the 2020 would be much easier than 2223, but it just sounds wrong. so what Ken said.

bdukes
03-02-2012, 02:55 AM
Recently I was at a Jumpin' Jim Beloff workshop and he referred to it as the "Hawaiian" D7. He urged us to try this alternative in the songs we were playing together and it sounded pretty good. Can't really speak to the HI origins, but maybe there is a bit of history someone in the know could relate.

Plainsong
03-02-2012, 03:07 AM
Yeah, Ken's right. It's like he answers a question and then you could just close the thread. :) It sounds alright in many situations and not in others.

Manalishi
03-02-2012, 03:22 AM
I have always known 2020 as the 'Hawaiian D7' as well.
Mostly I use the full D7 2223,BUT it has come up before
that in certain songs like 'Bring Me Sunshine' if you play
the 2223 version it sounds 'wrong' whereas the 2020 one
sounds spot on! I have found this applies to around four
other songs I play too,since then! Incidentally,the first
chord chart I found online when I was a newbie,showed
2020 as D7 and NOT the correct 2223!

grandpoobah
03-02-2012, 04:21 AM
I use 2020 a lot. The only problem is that it does not contain the root note of the chord (the note D). No problem at all if other instruments (bass, guitar, piano, etc) are playing along. It is usually sounds fine on solo uke too. However, if it sounds a bit empty or slightly wrong, just use 2223 instead.

I'm with you on this. I find if you're playing something like a Beatles tune where the 7th is there to really build up anticipation to the next chord, you gotta do 2223. They do sound different and people often refer to the 2020 as the Hawaiian D7. I use both. Its really dependent upon the tune you are playing

janeray1940
03-02-2012, 04:34 AM
Recently I was at a Jumpin' Jim Beloff workshop and he referred to it as the "Hawaiian" D7.

I learned it as the "Hawaiian" D7 as well. From actual Hawaiians!

As far as when to use it - I think it's perfectly fine for the OP's purposes, and in general for strumming simple songs. Beyond that it's an arrangement call - sometimes it sounds better than other inversions of D7, sometimes it doesn't.

ukulelecowboy
03-02-2012, 04:49 AM
One advantage to 2223, besides the fact that the root is there, is that in Jazz and Swing, the fully closed chord can be dampened when necessary. The open 2020 will continue to ring because of the open C and A strings. Again, this might only apply to a specific situation or style of playing.

mm stan
03-02-2012, 05:38 AM
I prefer the hawaiian D7 most of the time...as everyone says it is an alternative..most of the time it sounds better and it is easier for me in the transition to or from the next chord..
that doesn't mean I use it always...I use the 2223 too when the 2020 doesn't sound right or for transition or comfort purposes..hope it helps....Happy Strummings...

csibona
03-02-2012, 05:51 AM
I usually look at the melody note to figure out which D7 I am going to play - if it's an A I use 2020 and if it is a C I use 2223. That is, in songs where I am lucky enough to have a melody line and not just the chords. My wife usually just plays the 2020 in most cases - and it sounds fine and is perfectly acceptable.

nscafe
03-02-2012, 06:39 AM
For you music theory types: what would 2023 be technically? Seems to me I've played that before and it sounds all right in some instances.

Ronnie Aloha
03-02-2012, 07:58 AM
Yeah, Ken's right. It's like he answers a question and then you could just close the thread. :) It sounds alright in many situations and not in others.

I have to completely disagree with Ken. Just on principle. ;)

JimmyRoberts
03-02-2012, 09:11 AM
For you music theory types: what would 2023 be technically? Seems to me I've played that before and it sounds all right in some instances.

2023 and 2020 could be an F#m-b5.

http://chordlist.brian-amberg.de/en/ukulele/standard/Gbmb5/

I'm sure they can function as other chords as well.

Edit: On the page to which I linked, it's listed as a F#mb5/A. For a uke using a low g string, that would be correct. On a re-entrant tuned uke, I think it should be F#mb5/C since the C is the lowest note. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

thejumpingflea
03-02-2012, 09:28 AM
2023 and 2020 could be an F#m-b5.

http://chordlist.brian-amberg.de/en/ukulele/standard/Gbmb5/

I'm sure they can function as other chords as well.

Edit: On the page to which I linked, it's listed as a F#mb5/A. For a uke using a low g string, that would be correct. On a re-entrant tuned uke, I think it should be F#mb5/C since the C is the lowest note. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Usually you will refer to the chord as an F# Diminished. This is because it is comprised of two minor thirds. (F# to A and A to C) Fmb5 is the exact same thing, but you will rarely see it written that way without a 7th attached. (F#m7b5 is more common. It will add a major third to the initial chords to create F#, A, C, E)

You are correct regarding the / chords. The F#dim fingering of 2020 is also considered a second inversion on a reentrant tuned uke (C in the bass) and considered a first inversion on a low g ukulele (A in the bass).

JimmyRoberts
03-02-2012, 09:36 AM
Thanks for that, Matt. I appreciate the info. :)

edit: Of course, that makes perfect sense now that I think about it- diminished chord: 1 b3 b5...

http://chordlist.brian-amberg.de/en/ukulele/standard/Gbdim/

the_dude
03-02-2012, 09:37 AM
Why not teach both??
Since they're kids, teach them 2020, and then offer "extra credit" for learning 2223 and when it should be used.

janeray1940
03-02-2012, 10:05 AM
Usually you will refer to the chord as an F# Diminished. This is because it is comprised of two minor thirds. (F# to A and A to C) Fmb5 is the exact same thing, but you will rarely see it written that way without a 7th attached. (F#m7b5 is more common. It will add a major third to the initial chords to create F#, A, C, E)

You are correct regarding the / chords. The F#dim fingering of 2020 is also considered a second inversion on a reentrant tuned uke (C in the bass) and considered a first inversion on a low g ukulele (A in the bass).

Appreciate the explanation, thanks for that. This whole thread has been totally messing with my head, as I've been playing 2020/2023 as D7 as long as I can remember but ONLY JUST NOW realized that the root note is missing in both cases!

ukecantdothat
03-04-2012, 07:18 AM
Root shmoot. Mix it up. :nana: