Two chord questions: alternatives to C9, and did I just invent a chord?

Hi all,

I've been learning some new songs over the past few days, and two of them use the C9 chord quite often. At first it sounded very "off" to me, and I realized it's probably because of the high note played on the A string -- it just sticks out. Is there an alternative way of playing a C9 or is there some other variant/fingering I could use for it?

Second, I have a chord reference book with literally 1,000 chords in it, but I can't find this one: g string and A string fretted at the third fret. Any insight?

Thanks!
Jaime

g string and A string fretted at the third fret = C7

I am referencing the Hal Leonard ukulele chord finder and this is what I have for C9
3005 or 5465 or 9-0-10-13

Hello jmw,
You wrote the following.....
"I've been learning some new songs over the past few days, and two of them use the C9 chord quite often. At first it sounded very "off" to me,"
If you do not like, or think the music needs a little, shall we say tweak, then by all means play the song your way. The flavouring of the original is of little consequence if you are playing it your way, you will be happier.
1931jim

Not to make things more confusing, but I think that a little understanding about exactly what the heck a 9 chord is (and how its structure will be affected by the limitations of the ukulele) might be appreciated by some members of the community…

Chords, for the most part, are created by “stacking” thirds atop one another. For example, the C major chord is the root (C), the third (E, which is a major third above C) and the fifth (G, which is a minor third above E). By various combinations of major and minor thirds, we create the basic triad chords – major, minor, diminished and augmented.

Seventh chords are created by stacking yet another third on top, so you get a form of 1,3,5,7 (i.e. C,E,G,B = CMaj7). Again, the arrangement of major or minor thirds produces Maj 7, Minor 7, Dominant 7 (which are the typical C7,G7, etc.), Diminished 7, Half Diminished (7b5)…etc.

If we keep stacking thirds on our chords, we end up with 9 (five notes), 11 (six notes) and 13 (7 notes) chords. Which are heavily used in some genres of music (Jazz and Gospel being most prominent). The problem that we have as ukulele players is that we have to play a 5-7 note chord on an instrument with only four strings. How do we do that?..... we have to leave out some of the notes.

There are no hard and fast rules on which notes to trim. The fifth or the root is often the first to go, but any note is fair game. If a particular voicing on a chord chart does not sound right to you, then change it.

This judicious trimming of our chords is one of the things that give ukuleles their own sound, because we often end up with “ambiguous” sounding chords. This either makes ukuleles simpler or more complicated, depending on how you look at it.

Wicked said:

There are no hard and fast rules on which notes to trim. The fifth or the root is often the first to go, but any note is fair game. If a particular voicing on a chord chart does not sound right to you, then change it.

This judicious trimming of our chords is one of the things that give ukuleles their own sound, because we often end up with “ambiguous” sounding chords. This either makes ukuleles simpler or more complicated, depending on how you look at it.

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Ok - I think this is what I needed to hear. I'm using guitar tabs for these songs, and I'm pretty sure all those C9 notes sound lovely on a guitar, but they sound like $@!* to me on a ukulele!

jmw said:

Ok - I think this is what I needed to hear. I'm using guitar tabs for these songs, and I'm pretty sure all those C9 notes sound lovely on a guitar, but they sound like $@!* to me on a ukulele!

Click to expand...

Hello jmw,
Wicked wrote...."If a particular voicing on a chord chart does not sound right to you, then change it."
Therein lies what I wrote earlier...tweak or change it to suit your enjoyment and your ears. I played for years with some very talented guitar players who couldn't hold an audience and other musicians whose motto was KISS.
As you are aware means keep it simple etc.
Regards
Jim

jmw said:

and did I just invent a chord?

Thanks!
Jaime

Click to expand...

I can't add anything to the helpful technical knowledge that others have provided, but I like the idea of inventing our own chords, so I'm going to say that you have invented the J26 chord (inventor's first initial + number of posts when chord was invented).

C9 is typically played rootless on ukulele, so first position would be 0201, second is 3435, third is 7767, and fourth is 9 10 10 10. Of course, there are many other ways to play it, but these work pretty well in a jazz context.

An interesting thing about these fingerings is that they can also function as minor 6 and minor 7b5 chords, depending on the context of the progression. For example, 3435 can be C9, but also Gm6, or Em7b5.

jmw said:

Ok - I think this is what I needed to hear. I'm using guitar tabs for these songs, and I'm pretty sure all those C9 notes sound lovely on a guitar, but they sound like $@!* to me on a ukulele!

Click to expand...

As others have pointed out - with only four strings you have to drop a note from the C9 - if you happen to drop that dominant seventh then what you end up with is called a Cadd9 chord and those take a little getting used to. The dominant 7th (Bb in the case of a C chord) is a very powerful note that "dominates" how the chord sounds. On a guitar or other instrument with large enough polyphony the difference between a C7 and a C9 is fairly small. When you drop that dominant 7th though and the chord becomes an add 9 the chord becomes weak when in fact the songwriter intended the very powerful dominant there. That's why the add9 is usually a pretty poor substitute for a C9.

Except when dealing with augmented or dimished chords (which are fairly rare in pop music anyway) it is best to drop either the fifth or the root when compromising on a chord because these do the least to define the character of the chord. They also don't create any tension so don't force a resolve. That is why the I-V or I-V-VIII (octave) - the so called "power chords" are so popular in rock music. You can chunk along on those while the lead guy goes nuts and what you're doing is not going to clash with almost anything he does. (They're also dead-easy barre chords for beginners so you can literally learn to play rhythm rock guitar in about thirty minutes if you've got a good sense of rhythm.)

John

jmw - Have you explored the ukebuddy site? http://ukebuddy.com/

It's pretty helpful for figuring out whether something you are trying to play is an actual chord.

yorick said:

jmw - Have you explored the ukebuddy site? http://ukebuddy.com/

It's pretty helpful for figuring out whether something you are trying to play is an actual chord.

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UkeBuddy says it doesn't exist! World, let me introduce you to the J26 chord!

"I can't add anything to the helpful technical knowledge that others have provided, but I like the idea of inventing our own chords, so I'm going to say that you have invented the J26 chord (inventor's first initial + number of posts when chord was invented)." - DaveY

Sorry, it's already taken

jmw said:

View attachment 37546

UkeBuddy says it doesn't exist! World, let me introduce you to the J26 chord!

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If you're talking about C7 3003, it's been around for a while, and as proof, check out my arrangement of "Love is Here to Stay" by George Gershwin. Third line down, about the middle, you'll see I use it.

http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?55125-Love-is-Here-to-Stay-by-George-Gershwin

You might also try 3203. It's the C7 from before (3003) with a D added on the C string to give you the 9th.

jmw said:

Hi all,


Second, I have a chord reference book with literally 1,000 chords in it, but I can't find this one: g string and A string fretted at the third fret. Any insight?

Thanks!
Jaime

Click to expand...

That's why I wrote this little java applet - put in any fingering and it will attempt to identify (and rank) what chord or partial chord you might be fingering. If you tell it the key of the song it will adjust the rankings based on which chords are most likely to be used in a song in that key.

http://www.praiseuke.com/blog/?page_id=43

Have fun with it if you run into any other mystery chords...

JOhn

Dougf said:

If you're talking about C7 3003, it's been around for a while, and as proof, check out my arrangement of "Love is Here to Stay" by George Gershwin. Third line down, about the middle, you'll see I use it.

http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?55125-Love-is-Here-to-Stay-by-George-Gershwin

Click to expand...

Ah ha!

uke4ia said:

You might also try 3203. It's the C7 from before (3003) with a D added on the C string to give you the 9th.

Click to expand...

Going to try this tonight and see how I like it. I have a feeling I will!

OldePhart said:

That's why I wrote this little java applet - put in any fingering and it will attempt to identify (and rank) what chord or partial chord you might be fingering. If you tell it the key of the song it will adjust the rankings based on which chords are most likely to be used in a song in that key.

http://www.praiseuke.com/blog/?page_id=43

Have fun with it if you run into any other mystery chords...

JOhn

Click to expand...

Thank you!

The easiest ways to play a C9 are 0005 and 0201.

When you see C9 in online guitar chord charts, what they usually mean is C(add 9). This is because on the guitar, going from a G to a C(add 9) is really easy. Technically, a C9 should include the 7th, but a C(add 9) does not.

I would call 3003 a C7 too, and it can function as such.

It's actually missing the 5th (the G) though. That gives it a nice, "open" sound.

(Trivia: On most accordions, the C7 chord button on the left-hand side also leaves out the G note as well. Actually, all seventh chords leave out the 5th. It's more flexible that way.)

JJ