why a baritone instead of small size guitar ?

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kkmm

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I am relatively new to ukulele playing (4 months) but I have played guitars for ages. I started with one concert uke (I did not even know I got a concert !!!), very good sounding, but the frets are a little small for my finger. Now I mostly play the tenor ukulele (that I built myself recently) which fits much better with my fingers.
Naturally, the next step would be a baritone.
I am asking myself: since the baritone are tuned like the DGBE strings of a guitar, does it make sense to play a small classical guitar (kid's size ???) instead of a baritone that has only 4 strings.

So, what the main difference between a 1/2 size guitar and a baritone ? (besides 6 strings vs 4 strings). Why would you choose the baritone instead of the small guitar ?
 
I have never played the guitar and always thought I would like to learn. I borrowed my friends tenor guitar and was shocked because in that neck size the strings seemed impossible close together. I didn't like it. I purchased a Baritone uke instead. Less off a learning curve and four strings for me was more manageable than six.
 
As a guitar player my initial thought when I started playing uke was that I'd have no use for a baritone. I could just play the four treble strings on my classical, right? Turns out it's not that simple. The shorter scale and smaller body makes quite a bit of difference in the sound. You could get a 3/4 size classical guitar and get close to the same sound but then there are two issues. First, the strings tend to be closer together on a 3/4 size guitar. Second, it's pretty hard to find a good quality 3/4 size classical guitar - at least at a reasonable price. Most manufacturers figure the 3/4 size classical guitar is going to be for kids and this affects what they build in several ways. 1) They want to keep cost down. 2) They "over build" so the guitar has a better chance of surviving rough handling (over building means the instrument doesn't sound as good, generally). 3) They tend to put the strings closer together for small hands. If you have very small hands or slim fingers then the last item might even be an advantage - but for the rest of us it's annoying.

John
 
I applaud the above responses. I woulda just said "4 fingers. 4 strings. Coincidence? No." In addition, many of us have purchased the special strings for traditional GCEA tuning. Don't try it without buying the custom strings, cause you will damage your uke. The baritone gives it a bigger sound than a concert uke, with the same tuning.

Even if you stay with the standard tuning -- the baritone uke has a brighter sound than the guitar I think.

Also, they are available on Clist for 50 bucks pretty much everywhere (in my experience.)
 
dave alexander said:
I applaud the above responses. I woulda just said "4 fingers. 4 strings. Coincidence? No." In addition, many of us have purchased the special strings for traditional GCEA tuning. Don't try it without buying the custom strings, cause you will damage your uke. The baritone gives it a bigger sound than a concert uke, with the same tuning.

Even if you stay with the standard tuning -- the baritone uke has a brighter sound than the guitar I think.

Also, they are available on Clist for 50 bucks pretty much everywhere (in my experience.)
Click to expand...

And then there is always using classical guitar strings to tune it down a full octave from GCEA....

JOhn
 
For me, it's cuz I don't know how to play a guitar.

I got a baritone to change the sound up in my gigs. I do three hours straight and it gets a little much, the same, unfamiliar sound. What's cool is that local audiences, with no experience with the ukulele, are getting more and more used to it.

I'm a ukulele player, not a guitarist.
 
> Naturally, the next step would be a baritone.

I am not sure. What about a low-G tenor? If you physically feel comfortable with a tenor size, why not stick with it?

> what the main difference between a 1/2 size guitar and a baritone ? (besides 6 strings vs 4 strings)

It's not "besides". It is the difference! You do use four fingers so having only four strings to take care of is easier.I understand you are familiar with guitar chords, but to many ukulele players, guitar chords are something more to memorize in addition to learning the same shape for another chord.

And to me, there is something abut the simplicity (tone? voice?) of ukulele that I cannot get from guitar/mini guitar.

Happy Pickin
Chief
 
John: interesting comment: are you saying that one can take the DGBE classical strings and tune them down to a low GCEA one octave lower than the normal GCEA tuning? I am confused by the this tuning. I have never tried classical strings on my Bari, but have assumed they would have to be used in their accepted tuning of DGBE. Sorry to appear so dumb on this, but for some reason it doesn't seem logical. Thanks!! Lozark
 
lozarkman said:
John: interesting comment: are you saying that one can take the DGBE classical strings and tune them down to a low GCEA one octave lower than the normal GCEA tuning? I am confused by the this tuning. I have never tried classical strings on my Bari, but have assumed they would have to be used in their accepted tuning of DGBE. Sorry to appear so dumb on this, but for some reason it doesn't seem logical. Thanks!! Lozark
Click to expand...

See this post - http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/f...Mainland-mahogany-baritone&highlight=baritone

BTW, I have since received the extra single strings and the G is still a little bit "snappy." I have got some extra thick (130lb) fluorocarbon fishing leader on the way that I hope will solve that issue. I'll update that thread after I get a chance to try it out.

John
 
lozarkman said:
John: interesting comment: are you saying that one can take the DGBE classical strings and tune them down to a low GCEA one octave lower than the normal GCEA tuning? I am confused by the this tuning. I have never tried classical strings on my Bari, but have assumed they would have to be used in their accepted tuning of DGBE. Sorry to appear so dumb on this, but for some reason it doesn't seem logical. Thanks!! Lozark
Click to expand...

The standard baritone tuning is DGBE. This tuning can be done with any standard baritone strings, or the first four strings of a classical guitar set. You can not tune the classical guitar strings down from DGBE to GCEA. You cannot do that with the baritone strings either. If you do the strings will be so slack as to be unplayable. You also cannot tune standard classical guitar strings or baritone strings up to the standard uke GCEA, the extra tension will break the strings or the instrument, the tension is way to high. Some folks do purchase special strings and tune the baritone up the GCEA standard uke tuning. It takes a special strings that won't break under this tension. The sound of these strings take away that baritone sound IMO, you might as well play a tenor uke. I hope this is clear.
 
well, to respond to both you John and you Black Bear, What Black Bear says is what I have always thought about the tuning of a Bari without using special strings designed for a certain tuning. However, John poses a very interesting combination with D"Daarios. I went to his thread, which I had missed for some reason, and watched the video and read your explanation. First, I actually like the sound, though it is very low and "guitarish" . Your explanation of the string choices were

G - J4403 G
C - J4404 D
E - J4405 A
A - J4403 G I assume the 03 04 05 03 refer to the string numbers in the D'Daario set?

and you used the EJ44 Pro Arte Classic extra hard tension strings and not the EJ44 LP.

And apparently it takes two set of strings to accomplish the tuning. And You purchased the other G string as a separate string (D'Daario) ? and are any of them wound?

It would seem the tuning stretch from A to E creates a lot of tension? the other 3 tunings seem tolerable. Am I still confused or is this the way you have it set up. This tuning really interests me thus my pursuing it so intently. Thanks John. And you Black Bear. Lozark
 
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I have both a baritone ukulele and a tenor guitar. A tenor guitar has four strings that I have set up for DGBE tuning, and has a slightly longer scale than a baritone uke with a much bigger body. Comparing these two instruments eliminates the variable of 4 strings vs. 6 strings and the closeness of the strings to each other on a 3/4 guitar. However, I don't see a baritone ukulele and a tenor guitar as being interchangeable. Baritone ukuleles have a percussive ukulele sound, a sort of "whoof" sound that's made when strumming. The guitar (which is steel string but could also be strung with nylon strings) simply sounds different, less percussive and more like a guitar.
 
lozarkman said:
well, to respond to both you John and you Black Bear, What Black Bear says is what I have always thought about the tuning of a Bari without using special strings designed for a certain tuning. However, John poses a very interesting combination with D"Daarios. I went to his thread, which I had missed for some reason, and watched the video and read your explanation. First, I actually like the sound, though it is very low and "guitarish" . Your explanation of the string choices were

G - J4403 G
C - J4404 D
E - J4405 A
A - J4403 G I assume the 03 04 05 03 refer to the string numbers in the D'Daario set?

and you used the EJ44 Pro Arte Classic extra hard tension strings and not the EJ44 LP.

And apparently it takes two set of strings to accomplish the tuning. And You purchased the other G string as a separate string (D'Daario) ? and are any of them wound?

It would seem the tuning stretch from A to E creates a lot of tension? the other 3 tunings seem tolerable. Am I still confused or is this the way you have it set up. This tuning really interests me thus my pursuing it so intently. Thanks John. And you Black Bear. Lozark
Click to expand...

The J4403 etc numbers are actually the D'Addario numbers for the individual strings. You can order the individual strings from places like JustStrings.com and, if you buy several "sets" to spread the shipping cost it actually ends up being cheaper than a lot of ukulele string sets.

The tension is not high at all - remember that while the strings are being tuned up they are also being used on a much shorter scale. This is why it is necessary to use "hard" classical strings. The G is pretty decent but just a little snappy - I'm waiting on some fluorocarbon fishing leader to arrive that is about the same diameter as the J4403 string but is of the more dense fluorocarbon. Hopefully that will make the setup just right. :)

John
 
chiefnoda said:
> Naturally, the next step would be a baritone.
I am not sure. What about a low-G tenor? If you physically feel comfortable with a tenor size, why not stick with it?
Click to expand...
I have "tried" a low G tuning by capo my classical guitar at fret#5 and play only the 4 trebble strings, I had trouble to play the songs I used to play with high-G , so I stay away from this path. The string spacing is not an issue (except on the concert or soprano, I can't really do a Dm chord clean on my concert, but I can on the tenor). I like the high G of the ukulele, it makes it sounds like an ukulele.
From this comment, it means I do not really have to get a baritone.
I have tried one in a music shop and do like its sound (more or like nylon guitars to my ears), the 4 string chords are of course easier then 6 string chords, but I never had problem playing 6 strings, my fingers are strong enough for bar chords. (and I have two more bass strings which allow for more bass notes).
And thanks for all the inputs regarding baritone / 1/2 size guitar. I can see their differences now. My curiosity is satisfied.
 
kkmm said:
the 4 string chords are of course easier then 6 string chords
Click to expand...
Of course, just because you have 6 strings doesn't mean you have to use all 6 for a chord. A number of styles deliberately voice everything in 3, 2, or even just 1 note, muting the rest. The extra strings allow for more voicing options, especially important in styles that ideally want every chord to use a fully closed fingering.

I like using my ukulele for (30s, 40s) swing rhythm, but it's not easy especially on my current sopranos. There aren't a lot of good (closed) alternatives to something like A7. It's one of the reasons I'm "stepping up" to a tenor very shortly, give myself a bit more usable fret board to make up for the limited string options.
 
Zenin said:
I like using my ukulele for (30s, 40s) swing rhythm, but it's not easy especially on my current sopranos. There aren't a lot of good (closed) alternatives to something like A7.
Click to expand...

Have you tried the F7 shape at the 4th fret? I find I can play closed forms okay up to around the fifth or sixth fret on my soprano - higher than that it gets kind of tight.

John
 
OldePhart said:
Have you tried the F7 shape at the 4th fret? I find I can play closed forms okay up to around the fifth or sixth fret on my soprano - higher than that it gets kind of tight.
Click to expand...

I can do it on my Kala soprano, but just barely, which means I can't transition to it smoothly at speed. My banjolele's scale is more then an inch shorter so it's just not happening, but it's much less important on a 'banjo. I don't think it's the size of my fingers, more a lack of flexibility. Maybe that'll improve with time.

Concert is much more doable for me. If I had known the difference in ukes when I started I would have gotten at least a super soprano, maybe even a giraffe soprano. But it's all good, I think I'm just going to end up with a stable full of ukes I pull out for different toons. ;-)
 
Zenin said:
I can do it on my Kala soprano, but just barely, which means I can't transition to it smoothly at speed. My banjolele's scale is more then an inch shorter so it's just not happening, but it's much less important on a 'banjo. I don't think it's the size of my fingers, more a lack of flexibility. Maybe that'll improve with time.

Concert is much more doable for me. If I had known the difference in ukes when I started I would have gotten at least a super soprano, maybe even a giraffe soprano. But it's all good, I think I'm just going to end up with a stable full of ukes I pull out for different toons. ;-)
Click to expand...

Stable full of ukes is always a good plan. For the longest time I "couldn't" play soprano - could barely pull off open chords on one. Been playing super sopranos and tenors. Then, a couple of weeks ago I was fooling around with a Dolphin and discovered that not only can I play a soprano now but I actually missed it when it was gone. So, yeah, that's a long way of saying your fingers may well limber up given time - mine apparently have.

John
 
Kind of bumping the thread here, but I would give the Southcoast linear C set a try on the baritone. I've decided on those for my Makai bari (the only uke I own at the moment). To me it's the best trade-off for lower tones with the larger body of the bari with the uke sound of C tuning...

If you want to play low g and like the baritone size it's a slam dunk. Southcoast puts forward the idea the larger baritone body handles the acoustics of linear C tuning better than the tenor.

Plus it's an unwound set. Wound strings on a uke were hell on my fingers and didn't hold up well at all, IMO.
 
I turned to Southcoast Linears about a year ago and never looked back. I now have them on just about all the baritones in our collection. I play "Low G" tuning only. I feel that the baritone still manages to deliver the tonal characteristics and "essence" of the ukulele while still giving me the room to move about. We play jazz and swing and I would estimate that 95% of my chords are closed. On occasion, I enjoy playing a tenor but anything smaller and it's a traffic jam for my fingers. I understand and acknowledge the "purist" line-- Baritones: DGBE and everything else: gCEA. It just doesn't work for me. I believe that I found my "formula for success."

I can't say enough about Dirk's strings sets. I have them loaded on everything from a '64 Guild to a 2012 Cordoba Cuatro. Great product.
 
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