Sub $300 ukes?

Ok, I see ukes for sale sometimes for what seems like unreal prices... How does a company make a uke for $89.99? or even $300. Are these made in China? Anyone reading this make ukes that cheap?

I definitely understand that you get what you pay for.

What gives?

i sell my ukes around that $300 pice bracket because im not a "name" brand but it certainly does not speak for my craftsmanship.i get scared of the idea of selling my craft for a premium just yet.

Chris_H said:

Ok, I see ukes for sale sometimes for what seems like unreal prices... How does a company make a uke for $89.99? or even $300. Are these made in China? Anyone reading this make ukes that cheap?

I definitely understand that you get what you pay for.

What gives?

Click to expand...

Yes, I can see the first 20 or so going at a relatively low price, enough to pay for the tuners, and enough to ensure a little appreciation where it is right, but when you start to get things moving, $300 is way too low IMO. Of course the details need to be there, but still...

My lowest-price wooden uke, in meranti wood, is priced at £195 and by careful control of materials cost and by investing my time in the right places during building, I am making a satisfactory return at that price point.

I'm a hobby builder, I build about 20 instruments a year, so I tend to let mine go for bargains. I just want them to go to good homes more than make any sort of profit off them. It gives me a chance to establish my name, reputation and quality for when I venture in to it full time. Unfortunately, there are a few builders that grumble about my pricing, which is legitimate, because they feel like I am undercutting them. I'm not deliberately trying to undercut a specific builder but I am priced well below most.

I'm not sure how that's done. I have at least $300 in materials for each of my ukes. More than that when you consider shop supplies and over head.

Most of my uke builds utilize scrap from other projects, which I amortized across the original project, but I have $88 in materials in each acoustic uke that I build. A little less if I use a spruce top in lieu of a mahogany top. Model size doesn't seem to matter between soprano and tenor. I don't build concerts or baritones. As a result of this thread, by having to do the math, I realized that I pay more for my fretboards by out sourcing them than I do for any other single component. I have recently started making my own mandolin fretboards, but I think I'm going to start doing my own uke and guitar boards too, so I could probably cut about $12 off the material cost. I'm just having fun with ukes and I generally give them away as gifts or in trades.

FWIW, my pricing structure for mandolin family instruments is a bit more in line with that market.

Lacquer and tuners alone cost me $88. It cost me $20 a day just to cool and dehumidify my build room. I think if you looked very closely and considered everything that goes into an instrument you'll probably find that you're losing money.

Yes, I am losing money on ukes, and on a good day I might break even on my out of pocket material expenses. Its a hobby. I'm not in it to make money. By the way, I was wrong. Its $85 in materials.

Here is a break down of my costs.
Top, sides and back $10
Neck $12
Tuners $15
Frets $5
Fretboard $20
Finish $5
String $8
Misc $10

Moore Bettah Ukuleles said:

Lacquer and tuners alone cost me $88. It cost me $20 a day just to cool and dehumidify my build room. I think if you looked very closely and considered everything that goes into an instrument you'll probably find that you're losing money.

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Chuck, what is your cost per day for overhead only? Your house, especially the tree house, is the most amazing place ever by the way.

Lots and lots of hidden, 'soft' costs involved with making something like a uke. I had always thought that a somjewhat accurate, general business model for a successful product, the material cost should be about 10% of the retail cost. This assumes efficiency, competency, and everything dialed in. Personally, I always like to do my best work, and I find it inspiring to work with nice materials. At this time, I just want to build some ukes, I have 9 underway right now. There has been a delay in getting all of my tooling together, namely a piece from the machinist for my binding machine which finally arrived, so having this quantity enables me to continue working. I have somewhat fallen 'out of love' with my first one, that is closest to being complete, because I already understand some of the shortcomings with it's bracing, still, it will be appreciated by whoever I decide to give it to when it is finished. I will need to see some $$$ coming back on this adventure, in order to be able to continue. The first 20 I see as just feeling my way around a bit, exploring, somewhere along the line, efficiency and consistency will start to form. At the time when a uke can be created with no visible or hidden mechanical/ aesthetic flaws, setup is precision, and a nice instrument exists, seems like the minimum price needs to be at least $1000- $1500 for a basic model with no significant inlay. That seems like about what it takes to cover all of the production costs, and leave you with 'a meal' and enough material to build another.... Competing on price point for an item like a guitar, or uke, that should be created with love and attention, nope... I want to to be able to build to the limits of my ability and creativity. From a hobby standpoint, yes, whoever gets those ukes might be getting a gem, maybe not. Establishing a name takes time.

...............................Quality.................................

I saw a banner ad from someone advertising $300 ukes and had difficulty understanding how a uke at that pricepoint pays for banner ads, unless maybe it was made in China...

Try $110.00 a day in rent. Then keep adding...

fortunately, my shop space, utilities, and insurance are reasonable. In the Winter months, my entire heat/ electric bill is <$125, in the Summer, down to about $60. The building is super insulated which keeps it warm in the Winter, cool in the Summer. I keep it 70 degrees 24/7/365, sometimes a little warmer if I feel cold. This is including air filtration that runs 24/7/365 My wood bill is what gets me, can't stop buying......

thistle3585 said:

Yes, I am losing money on ukes, and on a good day I might break even on my out of pocket material expenses. Its a hobby. I'm not in it to make money. By the way, I was wrong. Its $85 in materials.

Here is a break down of my costs.
Top, sides and back $10
Neck $12
Tuners $15
Frets $5
Fretboard $20
Finish $5
String $8
Misc $10

Click to expand...

This list of my Cost of Goods runs a little longer, including bracing material, bindings, purflings, pearl shell fro fret markers and inlay, glues and I'm sure other things I'm forgetting. Then there are the shop supplies and the cost of various jigs and molds that are constantly being updated. Tools and bits that need replacing and maintaining. Then there's the overhead that included automobile gas, insurance, shipping, web site fees, utilities. Power also costs me about more than anyone else pays for a similar sized shop, running me about $500 a month when you consider a 20 year life on the equipment and constant replacement of the batteries. (Solar power's not cheap!)
Cost of Goods is a relatively small percentage of the true expense that goes into building instruments. If you ever want to get depressed in a hurry, spend a few hours and do a TRUE accounting of how much it costs to be in this business and how little money you are really making.

BTW, keep it a hobby for as long as you can. I know I was having a lot more fun when I was building in the shade of a coconut tree!

But Chuck, you and I and a number of the others here are the apples in an apples vs oranges discussion. We're pros trying to actually make a living doing this. Hobby builders with independent incomes can totally lose their asses building instruments and be happy as clams. Probably cheaper than a big bass fishing boat and weekends on the lake...or equivalent.

If there were to be a change here, it might be helpful for there to be a separation between pro and amateur luthier forum pages. Then we could discuss real costs and the real world without that lurking feeling that pros are being unfairly undercut price-wise. The only thing that keeps me from being bothered by that is knowing that nobody is going to build ukes for very long without getting real.

probably not too many 'fat cat' uke makers out there, stopping in to build a uke every couple of months, letting all the secretaries and understaff take care of the business, smoking fatty Cuban cigars on your yacht in the French Riviera meanwhile... I'm guessing that is how you know you have made it, eh? Ever wonder why you work so much? Hopefully because you love it!

Making a living requires careful accounting..

Chuck,
I'm far from naive and understand the associated costs of running a business. I've owned my own business in one form or another for 20 years. As I said, it is a hobby. I also race sailboats and spend just as much with no revenue. I also referee hockey where I make enough to simply cover my expenses but there is no better view than the ice for a championship game.

My goal is to retire a bit early and build full time. I don't know that I could make a living doing it but more as supplementing whatever income I have at that time. That said, my goal is to 1, develop the skill and knowledge to put out a quality instrument, 2. obtain the tools and the knowledge to use them and 3, develop a reputation to trade on. I have about 10 years or so to reach those goals. I only have to make enough money to finance my out of pocket expenses. My biggest problem is that I tend to trade my work for other instruments although I have created a decent collection as I am trading retail for retail. When I need to finance something then I'll sell one of those instruments. I started building in '99 and I'd guess that I have $1000 out of pocket but I'll never recover the sweat equity. That's about where I stand.

Rick mentions pros vs. amateurs. I'm not sure those are the correct terms that adequately describe levels of builders because there are very experienced and knowledgeable part time builders and I'm sure there are a few full time builders that couldn't tell their **** from their *****. My point is that I think that everyone knows who's who for the most part and that is all that matters. I think an easy way for builders to "qualify" themselves on a forum is by putting their website in their signature.

OK, thanks to QuickBooks it's relatively easy for me to check my exact cost per uke. The true cost of building an uke for me is more than double what many non-professional and hobby builders are selling their work for. That cost includes everything associated with running a business. I could probably cut this cost a great deal if I took the next step and expanded my shop to included the heavy duty equipment I really need and ramping up production. Of course that would mean having real electricity which would also involve moving.

I understand giving the first pieces away, just to learn the process. Also, when you can finally make a decent instrument, giving them to well known people who play professionally is important to succeed. When a design is ready for sale, it needs to be priced correctly. When I saw the advert for $89, and $300 ukes, it kind of hurt. Someone is not being paid for their time, wherever, whoever it is. If I ever sell ukes as a business, I will not be aiming at the low end of the market, for sure. I have spent over $2000 in luthier specific tools, maybe close to 3, not including labor for making tooling, which I see as necessary to even make the first one. This does not even go near the cost of the 'backbone' tooling. Currently, my turntables are doing very well, keeping up with orders requires a lot of focus... Which is partly why I am making ukes! this is a place for my creativity to run free, it is almost a form of escape in the shop, totally fun.

To whom can you give free ukes and then see a payoff? There are only a handful of pro and influential uke players whose endorsement can be "money in the bank"...and they're pretty much all tied up with existing companies. Jake with Kamaka, etc., etc.

And Chris...you were already tooled up for general woodworking, so you had a head start. I could not duplicate my current shop for less than $100,000.00 in tools and general fixtures like benches, vices, hand tools, routers, etc. My electrical distribution alone was $25,000.00 eleven years ago.

But then, I am a pro; I have employees; I pay workers' comp, etc. And I sell to stores at industry standard boutique discounts, and I have to make money doing so. It isn't easy, but I'm unemployable at anything else!