walnut?

Hello all,

I did a search here and didn't really find an answer so I figured I'd ask. I am slowly preparing for my first scratch build (getting the tools, woods, misc parts etc.) a soprano in mahogany. Would it be a bad idea to make a fretboard and bridge out of black or claro walnut? I love the look of nice dark walnut and thought it might look nice against mahogany. I saw that Kiyawa uses it on some of their models and it is a common fretboard material on dulcimers. I've read guitar building forums and it seems hit or miss. A lot of the builders suggest that it is too soft for the strings, however uke strings are a lot lighter on the fretboard than steel stringed guitars. Other builders seem to think it is ok but it is softer so you need glue with the frets. If the idea isn't such a bad one how would I treat it? My thought was just a light coating with some dark walnut Danish oil to give it a dark luster and maybe keep it from drying out too much. As for thickness I was thinking 1/8". Am I way off base here?

Thanks for any advice,

Chris

Chris:

There might well be some nice, hard and dense walnut that will do the job. Claro varies quite a bit and some is comparatively soft. I have some Bastogne that is very dense but that might not be the rule. Same for English, I suppose, though the small amount I have on hand is plainly unsuitable for a fretboard.

For a first scratch build, you might think about staying away from experimenting. There are enough variables even if you stick to well-proven materials. LMI is a great source for stable ebony and rosewood fretboards at very reasonable cost.

Stain is pretty superficial and I'd worry about wearing through it but perhaps someone who has actually done this will have a different point of view.

Keep us up to date on your progress!

David

Been a long time since I've worked with any of the walnuts other than the Queensland variety (which is incredibly hard and destroys every cutting edge known to man). But from what I recall of the ones I used it would be reasonably suitable. I've seen a lot of builds with woods that were less suitable that it and worked well.

1/8" is a good thickness target for a flat fret board.

As far as glue goes, it's common practice amongst pros to wick thin CA glue down the end of the fret slot after the fret has been installed. If you want to have the fret tangs hidden then you can under cut them a touch and then after the first light wicking of CA give the side of the fret board a light sanding, allowing the dust to accumulate in the exposed fret slot end. Then give another dab of CA to that sanding dust. It will harden up and after another sand you will hardly see where the slot was cut. It might take a couple of sessions depending on your skill and depth of slot. Invisible on ebony, less so on lighter woods.

To give the fret board a nice lustre, and darken it up a bit I use a high grade furniture paste wax. The one I use is only available in Australia, but I'm sure you could find something suitable in you're local. A little goes a very long way, and you will need to come back to the edges of the frets and clean the gunk that builds up there as you burnish the wax up.

I personally think Black or Claro Walnut are both too soft for a fretboard. Finding a suitable, harder wood should not be difficult, just about any species you want. I do not have the experience to back that thought up, but my gut tells me pretty strongly, Walnut is not a wood I would choose for that purpose.

Use several coats of Smith & Co. CPES ( Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer ) on the walnut before you cut the slots. That'll harden it right up.

Jamestown Distributors has CPES on sale now. Getting a two pint kit to you would cost $50 with shipping and hazmat handling. That's not cheap but CPES is the bee's knees as a seal coat and first step in pore filling over the whole instrument. For a single build, if that is what you are thinking of at this point, it's a big expense compared to using a fretboard that doesn't need it. Nevertheless, I'd just buy the CPES even if not needed to harden the walnut. It's that useful.

I used Walnut (American Black) on one fretboard. I replaced it just over one year later because grooves had already started to appear on the first few frets. That was with Nylon strings. Having said that, it was a softer example of ABW.

Thank you all for the feedback.

I really love the look of nice walnut and really would like to use it in my 1st build. I think I'll be building two at the same time to start since I'll have everything set up for each stage. Rosewood or ebony would probably be easier. It is good to know that a few coats of CPES could make the walnut usable though. I'll have to make the decision when I get closer to that part of the build. I'll be torn between the wisdom of using rosewood/ebony and my love of walnut

What about for a bridge? I got some small blocks of very pretty walnut that are for pen blanks and I can get about 4 bridges per block. Is walnut ok for bridges? It is pretty hard for walnut and I got lucky with some quartersawn stuff.

Thank you all!

Does it have a nice "ping" when dropped end-on onto concrete?

They sell indian rosewood guitar fretboards at Allied pretty cheap. 13 for $2 each. It sounds like you're going to keep building so surely you'll use them up. I find that 3-4 out of the 13 are prety ugly so they become bridgeplates. From each of the the others you'll get fretboard, bridge, headplate and bindings, all nicely matched.

Built my first banjo (steel strings) in 1976 with an American black walnut fingerboard and it has held up well over the years. My first uke (now a few years old) also has an ABW fingerboard and seems to be fine. Several mountain dulcimers with ABW fingerboards have hels up as well. As you can tell from the different replies in this post, "your mileage may vary." The advice I wish I had gotten when I started building is...go ahead and give it a try. If it fails, build another. I tend to overthink. Thinking and planning are good...but building is a better teacher.

Great reply Ken. Too many people that are just starting out think that using the Master Grade wood will make the instrument a collector. Fact is it's going to take about a dozen just to really start to get the hang of building without things going pear shaped on you somewhere in the build.

Thank you everyone for your advice. Allen, I understand what you're saying about master grade wood sets. That stuff costs too much money for me to learn on! Chances are good I'll crack something. I am going to use some mahogany I think. I might even be using some sapele because it might be a little cheaper. I'll save the master grade sets for guys who know what they're doing.

Ken W very good point. I'm not going to learn as much from asking questions as I will building. If something doesn't work out I can either figure out how to fix it (great for learning) or just build another one (also great for learning). Win win for me!

Best regards,
Chris

If you can get some walnut with a crotch figure, the wood will be a lot denser and harder, plus will provide a fantastic figure. Crotch walnut should make a decent fingerboard, and could be made harder and denser with some of the above suggestions. For a bridge, walnut would have the advantage of being lower mass and thus more responsive than some harder, denser woods (see Gore/Gilet description of their "ideal guitar design"). Also, Richard Schnieder used a walnut/maple veneer laminate for bridges on his later guitars. He did color them with aniline dye to eliminate the striped effect. Good luck!

Walnut with crotch figure will also be nice and unstable...

First time I've seen a suggestion that one use inherently unstable wood here...

If you're going to use it, stabilize it with CPES. Google "Smith & Co. Epoxy"