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View Full Version : Interesting video on Ebony



Chris_H
06-04-2012, 04:54 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCGvfsBoFY&feature=player_embedded

Trinimon
06-04-2012, 06:32 AM
Interesting insight into the lumber industry specifically the ebony trade. Good to see that someone has taken a more ecological approach to sustainable harvesting.

Liam Ryan
06-04-2012, 08:46 AM
Why does he speak like his audience is a bunch of five year olds.

DeVineGuitars
06-04-2012, 09:00 AM
Bravo!!!! Bob Taylor is such a forward thinking man, he makes me feel like a caveman.:rolleyes:

mrhandy
06-04-2012, 09:16 AM
Why does he speak like his audience is a bunch of five year olds.
I would imagine he is mostly speaking to the American public... they basically are 5 year olds... though I doubt any of them would sit through the 13+ minute video.
This is purely speculation as to the major market base for Taylor's guitars... I have no knowledge of their worldwide sales.

Chris_H
06-04-2012, 10:22 AM
his tone of voice made it more difficult to watch... stiil some interesting tid bits...

Chris_H
06-04-2012, 10:23 AM
and yes, what he is talking about is definitely pertinent

Timbuck
06-04-2012, 10:32 AM
I've been using the stripy none black ebony for years..Co's I can't afford the good stuff:D..some of it looks just like rosewood...then again I've had rosewood that just looks like ebony:confused:

Chris_H
06-04-2012, 10:36 AM
I like the blond/ grey streaks, personally.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
06-04-2012, 10:57 AM
It doesn't stop with the video. Now it's OUR job to educate our customers.

ukulian
06-04-2012, 11:26 AM
It doesn't stop with the video. Now it's OUR job to educate our customers.

Makes a nice change not to be a lone voice! :)

whepper
06-04-2012, 12:01 PM
Thanks for the share. It really gives why the industry should switch to sustainable wood only. Great initiative from Taylor. When will the last mass produced uke using ebony or even koa be made?

Chris_H
06-04-2012, 12:36 PM
Sustainable is a buzzword for me. Wasteful is more real, efficient is more real, 'renewable' and 'sustainable' just miss the mark a little bit, for me. Renewable, no, it will not likely ever be like it was, we cannot go back. We have a footprint in being alive.. Sustainable? for how long? at what rate? at what cost? Many of the huge timber sales in the wet tropics where some of the exotics come from, are negotiated as more 'beneficial' for the purpose of the land being (profitably of course) converted into oil palm plantations, or other, for biofuel production. Energy is constantly being transformed. Imagine trying to build a wooden aircraft from non old growth wood... The other evening I was thinking about non wood products in instrument building, like Richlite for fingerboards, or another material that is probably not applicable due to it's damping properties. ( anything on a guitar that benefits from being non-resonant?) Local woods are going to be seen more and more. Ebony will become very scarce in a relatively short time.

I live in timber country, it irks me a bit to hear of trees as renewable. Yes they grow back, but if you have ever walked in an old growth forest, you instantly know the difference. Second, third, fourth growth forests just do not have the same.... anything...

Chris_H
06-04-2012, 12:48 PM
sorry if some of that is confusing,, touching on a lot of related subjects in a few sentences, don't have time to do it justice at the moment.. I like working with wood, and also recognize that it is precious, that it is commonly harvested in less than 'sustainable' ways.....

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
06-04-2012, 01:37 PM
Thanks for the share. It really gives why the industry should switch to sustainable wood only. Great initiative from Taylor. When will the last mass produced uke using ebony or even koa be made?

Koa is one of the fastest growing trees in Hawaii and there is considerable replanting going on. Responsible use is the key word.

Chris_H
06-04-2012, 02:58 PM
very cool that Koa grows quickly. How old are mature Koa trees?

Most species' replantings do not grow so quickly, or to the same stature.. Cocobolo is also being replanted, but..... Spruce too.. It will take a while for the newly planted Spruce trees to be able to yield nice tight tops, if ever.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
06-04-2012, 03:17 PM
very cool that Koa grows quickly. How old are mature Koa trees?

Most species' replantings do not grow so quickly, or to the same stature.. Cocobolo is also being replanted, but..... Spruce too.. It will take a while for the newly planted Spruce trees to be able to yield nice tight tops, if ever.

Koa can grow 1" in diameter and 2' in height per year. In 40 years you can have a pretty good sized tree.

Pete Howlett
06-05-2012, 11:03 AM
I am never convinced that Taylor is doing it for the industry. He ids almost exclusively in it for Taylor guitars. Anyone heard of him becoming a wood merchant? When he does then I might be more disposed towards believing he has the industry in mind.

Recant:
Just watched the video which i couldn't stream it in Canada. Good on you Bob... he is a wood merchant afterall. Now start with Mahogany and all those other woods and start promoting indigenous woods and woods with imperfections and lower grades. Starts with ebony and continues throught the rosewoods, koa and such like I hope.

barefootgypsy
06-05-2012, 11:18 AM
Sustainable is a buzzword for me. Wasteful is more real, efficient is more real, 'renewable' and 'sustainable' just miss the mark a little bit, for me. Renewable, no, it will not likely ever be like it was, we cannot go back. We have a footprint in being alive.. Sustainable? for how long? at what rate? at what cost? Many of the huge timber sales in the wet tropics where some of the exotics come from, are negotiated as more 'beneficial' for the purpose of the land being (profitably of course) converted into oil palm plantations, or other, for biofuel production. Energy is constantly being transformed. Imagine trying to build a wooden aircraft from non old growth wood... The other evening I was thinking about non wood products in instrument building, like Richlite for fingerboards, or another material that is probably not applicable due to it's damping properties. ( anything on a guitar that benefits from being non-resonant?) Local woods are going to be seen more and more. Ebony will become very scarce in a relatively short time.

I live in timber country, it irks me a bit to hear of trees as renewable. Yes they grow back, but if you have ever walked in an old growth forest, you instantly know the difference. Second, third, fourth growth forests just do not have the same.... anything...I'm a "lurker" here - conservation threads always make me prick my ears up - and it's so good to see these sentiments ..... do - pleaase - educate the buying public...... this is so important. I once travelled from the coast in Malaysia to Kuala Lumpur. Solid Palm oil forestry - and that was 15 years ago! It's really scary......

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
06-05-2012, 12:20 PM
I am never convinced that Taylor is doing it for the industry. He ids almost exclusively in it for Taylor guitars. Anyone heard of him becoming a wood merchant? When he does then I might be more disposed towards believing he has the industry in mind.

I don't see a problem with that. Give him some credit for doing something positive and being forward thinking, even if it may only be in his best interest. What Taylor does has a huge impact on everyone in the business.
BTW, I know of at least one LARGE uke manufacturer that regularly gets their wood from Taylor.

ukeeku
06-05-2012, 12:20 PM
I am never convinced that Taylor is doing it for the industry. He ids almost exclusively in it for Taylor guitars. Anyone heard of him becoming a wood merchant? When he does then I might be more disposed towards believing he has the industry in mind.
To my knowlege they have been for a long time. they just sell to big manufactures. you may not know that you are buying Taylor wood. Martin has said that it is funny that they buy from their competitor, but they treat them fair and like a good customer, along with many high end guitar companies. Bob Taylor is smart for getting into the wood buisness and taking some control over his materials.

Hobo
06-05-2012, 12:22 PM
If the characteristics of striped ebony are the same as pure black ebony then what is the real difference, except in appearance? Can't the wood be dyed black to get the 'dark look' and still retain its prized functionality. Other woods are dyed or stained for cosmetic reasons, why not ebony as well? There will always be a market for pure black ebony, but who could really tell difference in the finished product of an instrument?

haolebrownie
06-05-2012, 02:26 PM
It doesn't stop with the video. Now it's OUR job to educate our customers.

I really think that this is key too. I never knew, so the video was really insightful for me, personally. For real change to happen, both the consumers and producers need to understand the impact and take steps to fix the problem.

Chris_H: thanks for sharing the video.

Chris_H
06-05-2012, 06:47 PM
getting Ebony that is 'more blonde' to look black, might not be so easy. Ebony does not just suck up stains, dyes, and liquids like many woods, part of why Ebony makes great fingerboards. Black dyes can look purple too. A little black dye on dark wood might look natural, trying to turn a somewhat nonporous piece of Ebony with major blonde streaks, black, might not work so well. I would love to hear a more experienced voice on this. ( I have very little)

Hobo
06-06-2012, 04:11 AM
Ebony does not just suck up stains, dyes, and liquids like many woods, part of why Ebony makes great fingerboards. On second thought, if it could be successfully done, they'd already be doing it.

Pete Howlett
06-06-2012, 12:11 PM
That is not being a wood merchant. Expectations are created by their continued use of what are restricted timbers for the rest of us. I'm not in the least convinced by the big boys playing the sustainable and responsible cards... sorry. Besides there are currently man made substitutes and here in the UK, with a bit of effort in preparation I use bog oak which can be as black as ebony tho not as finely textured - needs epoxy treatment.