Tenor ukulele soundboard bracing and tap tuning

I was wondering does carving the bracing on a ukulele soundboard help produce a better sound and also can someone explain to me what tap tuning is?

Noss4060 said:

I was wondering does carving the bracing on a ukulele soundboard help produce a better sound and also can someone explain to me what tap tuning is?

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You ask if carving the braces produces a better sound. Short answer is no. Braces can be carved or pre-shaped before they are glued on
to the soundboard, it depends on the experience of the luthier. Once you build a lot of ukes, you come to understand how the bracing works and what size they should be. Shaping them before you glue them on saves time, unless you just love picking up the chisel and carving. Either way can work.

You can Goggle tap tuning, but in my opinion, tap tuning on ukes is more voodoo than science. If you know what you are doing, there are far more important things to consider than tapping on the wood to get where you need to go.

Amen, Bro.

In a nutshell, tap tuning consists of removing material from the braces until you arrive at a certain note when you tap the top and/or back. Most people use a strobe tuner for this process. It is a systematic approach to building but a lot of people want to learn tap tuning as a way of decreasing their learning curve. Unfortunately, new builders seem to get too consumed with getting that specific note that they completely forget about all other aspects of the build. Just my opinion. I know a number of builders that tap and flex their way to their goal then will check to see what note they arrived at but not force the instrument to a specific note.

I tap my tops and backs as I carve the braces but I don't tune them. I have an idea where I want my braces to start then I tap the top and remove more material then tap the top and on and on until it has a bell like tone. Its pretty clear to hear it go from a thud to a ringing tone as I remove material. I'm only on my 15th or so acoustic, so I can only say this is what has worked for me to date. If you want to know about tap tuning, I'd suggest checking Roger Siminoffs site. I don't buy in to it but some people seem to feel like they have success with it.

Just what Andrew says. Tap tuning often is not litterally 'tuning.' Many call it voicing. It is just a great way to know where you are at in the process of approaching that edge between response and a sinking top. Gordon at mya-moe recently posted a video about that edge, though he does not address voicing specifically.

Roger invited me to his tap tuning course a couple of years ago, and I have to say, I was impressed with the results he gets, but also he has changed his own concepts over the years, and he found that he could get very similar results with accurate deflection testing. One of his most amazing fixtures is one that allows deflection testing of guitar tops in the string pull torque mode. Brilliant setup. He designed it initially for Gibson, but they didn't "get it".

One interesting thing...Roger now believes that Loar mandolins were tuned using "Philosophical Pitch"... C 256 (A-427) which puts all notes about a quarter tone flat or sharp of current standard pitch of A-440. Thus the resonant pitches of a Loar will not result in wolf tones in modern pitch, though they may have in Loar's time if the mandolins were tuned to Philosophical. Roger's beliefs are based on one of the electric claviers that Loar made as well as knowing that Loar was a Theosophist. So ironically, Loar mandos work better tuned differently than Loar preferred.

And there you have it - tap tuning for carved instruments, deflection testing for flat tops! I say this frequently and experience bears me out that the other 'luthiery' disciplins are different to that of ukulele building; that there are very common factors to all types of luthiery and by contrast, some striking differences. THE UKULELE IS A FOLK INSTRUMENT... it is like the Kantele, a simple honest instrument that some want to mess around with and change into being something more than it really is. Clearly some instruments are poorly built but even a klutz of a builder can make a good sounding ukulele if they follow some simple guidelines. Tap tuning? I don't think so. Deflection testing, Yes. I always 'grade' my tops using a crude deflection test, some of that voodoo Duane refers to.

I pre-shape my bracing to a point, but it is oversized to be sure, knowing full well that I will be removing material after the glue has cured.

I don't "tap tune", but I do shave away at braces and flex the top as I go. I will tap the top to get an idea of it's resonance and how lively it feels in my hands. It takes building a lot of instruments to get a feel for what you are looking, feeling and listening for, and I don't believe you will find a pro here that will say that they couldn't squeeze just a bit more out of an instrument just given a few more years of building.

There's all kind of science behind this that quite frankly is over my head....or more accurately isn't how my head works. Books that I've read on the subject are "Left Brain Lutherie" by David Hurd and "Contemporary Acoustic Guitar Design and Build" by Trevor Gore and Gerard Gilet. Both well researched and excellent books with heaps of technical info for those who like that sort of stuff.

Some people work well with hard data, numbers and frequencies to the point of collecting data on every instrument that they have built. Trying to analyse what they have done and what will improve their results. Scientific method I suppose you would call it and good on them for being able stick with it and do it.

Others are a seat of the pants, intuitive and experience type with a mental image of what they have done and where they want to go. I'm in the later and it sounds like many here are of similar bent.

Is one or the other better? Couldn't say. Really depends on your makeup I suppose.

My advice. Build lots of instruments. Don't think that the first, or even tenth instrument will be a killer one to beat all others. They may very well be better than what can be had at the local music shop for under $300. But there is nothing that anyone here can tell you about this that will replace experience.

Right on the money, Allen. I used to do the flex testing for Huss and Dalton (I know---guitars---don't get you knickers in a twist, Pete). Flex test, thickness sand, then flex test again. After a few hundred tops I could feel when they were right, and only used the flex testing rig to verify my results. The few guitar tops I do now tell me that the touch hasn't gone away, that I can still judge accurately. I think I can do the same with uke tops, but it will take me a bunch to know for sure. No hurrys, though. I'm still connected at the hip to the guitar factory, and will be for another year or so.

I built a ton of guitars and certain aspects of that craft apply to ukulele building. Flex testing is much more sensible than tap tuning which originated in violin making (note, it's commonly refered to as MAKING - a truly humble word for a perfectly exacting craft). So the G word is OK some times Seriously tho, you want to learn more about this it's on David Hurd's site.

I will agree that flex testing is more reliable, but I think tapping has a place in ukulele building. I don't tune to any specific note, I just carve and tap until the plate sounds musical....until it has a nice ring. If it starts to sound muddy, you carved too much. Ukes are hard to judge because we use so many different wood species for tops. I find that spruce, cedar, and redwood are easier to "tune" than traditional hardwoods. Its not an exact science, but for me tapping is another check or reference that helps me achieve the sound I want.

Rick Turner said:

One interesting thing...Roger now believes that Loar mandolins were tuned using "Philosophical Pitch"... C 256 (A-427) which puts all notes about a quarter tone flat or sharp of current standard pitch of A-440. Thus the resonant pitches of a Loar will not result in wolf tones in modern pitch, though they may have in Loar's time if the mandolins were tuned to Philosophical. Roger's beliefs are based on one of the electric claviers that Loar made as well as knowing that Loar was a Theosophist. So ironically, Loar mandos work better tuned differently than Loar preferred.

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I didn't know Loar was a Theosophist. Interesting.

maclay said:

I will agree that flex testing is more reliable, but I think tapping has a place in ukulele building. I don't tune to any specific note, I just carve and tap until the plate sounds musical....until it has a nice ring. If it starts to sound muddy, you carved too much. Ukes are hard to judge because we use so many different wood species for tops. I find that spruce, cedar, and redwood are easier to "tune" than traditional hardwoods. Its not an exact science, but for me tapping is another check or reference that helps me achieve the sound I want.

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Ditto Jake

Rick, is there a picture or reference to Roger's deflection testing fixture? Could you explain anything more about it? I'd be interested in knowing how it compares to David Hurd's setup (which I've built and used-translation: "do try this at home"). Thanks

Check Roger's site; it might be there. I saw the thing in person. Very clever setup as it really does just test torsional deflection which is supremely important for fixed bridge instruments. Mandos are much easier because you can do straight pressure deflection testing.

Ha! I actually got thru halfway building that jig, but only got to the part where I could measure string tension, or more like string torque. Just for that, it was worth it. Inch lb torque wrench required.

Aaron