Petros Guitars - building Victoria Vox' ukuele

I already posted a link to this in the Uke Talk forum, but the slideshow of this build should be interesting to the builders here. Lots of standard techniques here as well as custom fixtures, etc.

http://petrosguitars.zenfolio.com/p718007497

I wonder if some of the builders here could tell me what the vacuum fixture in image #55 (page 4 from the above link) does? I'm guessing it seals down the bridge after clamping to assure good adhesion?

Mahalo!

Wow...that's some serious purfling!

I'd say you're correct. Looks like he used the clamp until the glue started to set then changed to the vacuum clamp for the final cure. Good way to be sure the bridge doesn't move around while clamping I guess.
Its amazing how much the bridge wants to slide around while you put the clamps on. I just make do with masking tape around the bridge to see if anything shifts around.

It's a vacuum clamp. I use one as well. Have one sized for ukes and another larger one for guitars. Very quick and efficient.

Don't know if this is what they are doing, but I do something similar to establish the position of the bridge. Then I drill a 1mm hole at each end of the saddle slot and through the top and bridge patch, that a 1mm brad will fit into. Apply HHG to both bridge and top and position bridge so that brads slip into the holes in the top. Perfect alignment and no slipping around. Apply vacuum clamp and bingo. Your done except for a bit of clean up in about 15 minutes.

After an overnight dry I pull the brads out and continue on with set up.

So let me start with an objective observation - it's a real pity that the rosette, position markers and purflin are not to the scale of the instrument. Clever and nicely -built though this is, ultimately it is a 'guitar maker's uke', right down to the scalloped x-braced front and the overscaled A4 Multi-axis Kerfed Liner Ryan style... It will nevertheless look quite striking in the hands of Victoria, showing the undeniable skills of a time served craftsman. The ultimate test will be a soundfile for us won't it?

Pete Howlett said:

So let me start with an objective observation - it's a real pity that the rosette, position markers and purflin are not to the scale of the instrument. Clever and nicely -built though this is, ultimately it is a 'guitar maker's uke', right down to the scalloped x-braced front and the overscaled A4 Multi-axis Kerfed Liner Ryan style... It will nevertheless look quite striking in the hands of Victoria, showing the undeniable skills of a time served craftsman. The ultimate test will be a soundfile for us won't it?

Click to expand...

I was kind of thinking some of the same thoughts... it does seen to be the "over built" approach so common when a guitar maker takes on ukes. And... I do want to hear it when its finished.

On a side note, it appears that a performing musician can make a go w/the uke as her principal instrument & livelihood. That is great to see.

Pete Howlett said:

So let me start with an objective observation - it's a real pity that the rosette, position markers and purflin are not to the scale of the instrument. Clever and nicely -built though this is, ultimately it is a 'guitar maker's uke', right down to the scalloped x-braced front and the overscaled A4 Multi-axis Kerfed Liner Ryan style... It will nevertheless look quite striking in the hands of Victoria, showing the undeniable skills of a time served craftsman. The ultimate test will be a soundfile for us won't it?

Click to expand...

Agreed on all points. I like the little inlay touches but the rosette and purflings are out of proportion.
But besides that, who has time to take 72 progress pictures????

Someone keen to write a story - notice how clean and ordered everything is? Set-ups must have taken ages. The silversmith who works below me had a day of filming just to produce an 8 minute promo for the National Trust. I note Rick says he is charging now for documentary photots...

Pete Howlett said:

Someone keen to write a story - notice how clean and ordered everything is? Set-ups must have taken ages. The silversmith who works below me had a day of filming just to produce an 8 minute promo for the National Trust. I note Rick says he is charging now for documentary photots...

Click to expand...

I don't have the cajones to charge for pictures. Instead I've pretty much stopped offering the service altogether.

The guy sell almost everything...even building stuff like bending forms and moulds ....check here and scroll down....http://petrosguitars.com/gallery/Petros_Guitars_Gallery/Ukuleles.html
I guess the most important thing is how his ukes and guitars sound like previous said..

Forms amd moulds do not appear in his 'shop'. Also the 'patent pending' kerfed lining is so much like Ryan's A4 I'd say it was a race to see who gets the patent first! Looking at the ukes... well I'm scratching my head as I see that old band waggon joining others and rolling on down the road. Ah well, the more the merrier.

Check Bruce's guitar prices... They start at $18,000.00. Now if, as Kenny Hill told me only partly in jest, "a uke is 3/4 the work of a guitar for 1/2 the money", then I'd say Bruce better start his ukes at at least $9,000.00.

And I doubt that Victoria is paying anything like $9 K for the uke...

Multi axis bending kerfing is just so unnecessary for a uke... It's barely needed for a guitar. There is an OCD component to too much of modern lutherie. There' so much attention paid to insignificant details because they can be surrounded by words and spin and smoke and mirrors. The chase for the last 2% of possible performance has gone into strange territory, and so much is based on appearance rather than "rubber meets the road" sonic and playability issues.

I love making nice looking instruments. I love my own little structural tricks and innovations. But what I really like is when real musicians tell me how much they like the sound and playability of their instruments. I like it when the ukes or guitars or basses come back looking "rode hard and put away wet" from intense use. I like making real tools for real musicians. Tarting them up with fancy purflings or inlay or using super figured exotic woods is fun, but it's not what it's really all about at the core of lutherie. We're tool makers first; artists second.

Bravely put Rick...

I have a new guitar client, a local woman, Deenie Rose, who is a pretty serious part-time gigging musician with a day gig and a night band. Two of her band mates have my instruments, she has one of my D-TAR pickups in her D-28, and she thought it was time for one of my newer model hybrid mag/piezo steel string guitars. She came in to talk about the whole thing, and yes, she's very into a look for this guitar, but when we got to talking, and when I asked her about what feel she likes, and when I saw her moderately small hands, I thought...and suggested...that we consider going to a shorter scale length than I normally use...24 3/4" instead of 25 1/2". I asked her to bring in her favorite guitar to play...

Then today she brought that guitar in. It's a Kalamazoo, 1960s or so Epiphone in a sort of LG2 size. And damned if the scale length isn't 24 3/4".

The blue stain on the spalted flame maple is going to be wonderful; the guitar is going to look spectacular. We're attending to the jewelry nature of the whole thing...

BUT, the shape of the neck, the scale length, and the sound is what's going to make the guitar a player and a keeper.

To the tune of "Mama Don't Allow"

Papa don't build no wall hangers 'round here .... ....
Papa don't build no wall hangers 'round here .... ....

You can hang yours in the parlor,
You can hang it in the hall,
You can hang yours in the toilet
Where the pangs of nature call

But Papa don't build no wall hangers 'round here .... ....

Ahhh - west coast wit

You guys are exactly why I, as a player, keep coming back to UU. Your wealth of knowledge from the inside out & years of experience give your words substance. I hope to own a few more ukes in my remaining years as I learn to play them as they deserve.

Here's the link to a Parlor Guitar that Petros made for Macyn Taylor & a link to a video from Ms. Taylor on that same parlor guitar. The sound is pretty sweet & I think that the bling is probably a bit less ostentatios, if only because it's probably not as oversized compared to the same bling on a uke.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwK2R6sEWtc&feature=player_embedded

http://petrosguitars.zenfolio.com/p957460347

Again, thank you all for your eye & honest comments. And, Rick?? I'll be singing your "Wall hanger" song all day as I take MY wall hangers down & spend some time with each of them!

Mahalo!

P.S. Just noticed that Photo #36 has another use of a vacuum fixture - this time to glue braces to the top - instead of a go-bar deck. Is vacuum assist like this used commonly in the wider industry?

The vacuum frame method is fairly common in production shops these days. I don't see a huge advantage over a go bar deck other than modern glues curing a bit faster as the moisture evaporates out quicker. The pressure is very even, and that's good, but go-bar decks are incredibly versatile. At Taylor, they have guides for the ends of the braces and the tops and backs get pinned to the vacuum fixture, so the placement of the braces is established by the jig...they don't have to lay out where the braces go. All in all, it's a good system but not substantially better for a small shop. When minutes are really dollars it may be better, but it's really not cheap to set up, not that tooling an efficient instrument making shop is ever cheap.

I wouldn't say vacuum pressing is at all common. Fairly expensive to set up, at least when you go for a good pump. Lot's of Bob the Builder type of ways on doing it on the cheap, but still a Go Bar deck is so versatile, its hard to live without one.

I've got a large vacuum frame for my set up and use it for some tasks, like CF bridge patches and multi piece rosettes that are flooded with CA glue. Have tried it on braces as well, but prefer the Go Bar deck for them.

Our good friend is now making these vacuum fixtures. http://youtu.be/g0fStnfrDTE

Vacuum can be fairly cheap if you use home made system and or venturi set-up. http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm

Blessings,

Kevin

Vacuum is a really cool tool to have in the shop. I have been using a Vacupress pump, and bag system for the past 8 years. It is easy to learn, and the quality of clamping pressure, the consistency, is very difficult to match with any 'point' specific clamping system, such as bar clamps, or, potentially, a go bar deck. In looking at the video that was linked to above, I would really like to see that whole glue-up, and the pressing when the vacuum is applied. I would not have guessed that you could just quickly apply a bead to all the braces, set them in the proper location, close the lid and flip the valve.... it would surprise me if zero shifting happened, there is something we did not see in that video, I think. (please correct me if you know different! will the braces really stay put?) Maybe, but I would like to see it. If it takes more than one pressing, that slows things way down. (the quality of the glue joints will still be better in vacuum if correctly done, so maybe that justifies it for some folks? not sure if it would for me) Vacuum clamping of bridges seems like a good idea, seems like it would be pretty easy to achieve excellent results, I plan on setting up for this. I couldn't see the vacuum replacing the go-bar deck in a shop, they are different, and useful in different situations. For laminating neck blanks, bar clamps do not even come close to the quality that vacuum clamping provides, though acceptable results can be had with bar or c-clamps and cauls. Vacuum clamping technology is in no danger of being 'shown the door' in my shop. I will continue to explore it's uses. Vacuum is awesome, very useful.

I have only glued braces to a few sets of backs and tops. (this will change soon, judging by the steadily growing stacks of bracing wood, neck wood, tops, backs, sides, tuners, etc... a lot of changes going on in my shop ATM, in addition to being fully swamped with orders, massive dust collection/ hepa air filtration system overhaul) Though I am certain that 30 years of using a go-bar deck will lead to some serious intuition with that tool, I am also pretty sure that at least just the quality of the glue joint in the basic gluing of a brace to a top with a vacuum bag will be much better than what is possible with a go bar deck. Kind of like why a torque wrench is a handy tool for installing cylinder heads and having them stay put. Yes, setting up the tooling for efficiency is going to take some effort, and there may be other inefficiencies that make this a non-starter, but, the glue joint will be better given proper location of the brace, and working within the open time of the glue. You can flog me if you want to for saying that, but if you have not spent time around a vacuum pressing system, you might enjoy it if you did. Oh, I think the go-bar deck is one of the coolest things since sliced bread...

My vacuum bag is right next to where my go-bar deck is. Unaware that people use vacuum for bracing tops and backs, I had thought about it, it is kind of daunting. There is a lot to take into considration to create a workable system, and then, even more to make it adaptable to a custom environment.

And have yo seen the price? It would take me a long time to get my money back superb as that tool is! Nevertheless a go bar deck is simple - a few sticks,, a bench and a shelf. Also there is a great deal of precision jig making and skill required to use one - keeping bars in place for a start, accurate glue spreading (no fingers) and not only the press frame but the pump also... for prefessionals working at high volume this is a must.