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pakhan
09-07-2012, 03:56 AM
They look pretty ok... but the back plate is a bit chunky. Light though.

42673

TheCraftedCow
09-07-2012, 07:45 PM
I just checked the official Gotoh site. Spendy!! Not what I would call attractive and unobtrusive. You call 15 grams each as light? How about PEGHEDS www.pegheds.net at 20 grams for all four? What is their warranty? It says where the design came from, but does not say where they are made. PEGHEDS are made from USA metal, machinists, and only the wooden buttons come from India. Chrome PEGHEDS with ivoroid buttons are in the developmental stage. The front side nut of the Gotohs will not allow the strings to wind down to the headstock. Downbearing on the nut is reduced. I would still stick with PEGHEDS even if I were not a distributor. :~)

Liam Ryan
09-07-2012, 11:58 PM
I just checked the official Gotoh site. Spendy!! Not what I would call attractive and unobtrusive. You call 15 grams each as light? How about PEGHEDS www.pegheds.net at 20 grams for all four? What is their warranty? It says where the design came from, but does not say where they are made. PEGHEDS are made from USA metal, machinists, and only the wooden buttons come from India. Chrome PEGHEDS with ivoroid buttons are in the developmental stage. The front side nut of the Gotohs will not allow the strings to wind down to the headstock. Downbearing on the nut is reduced. I would still stick with PEGHEDS even if I were not a distributor. :~)

An unbiased opinion as always...............

TheCraftedCow
09-08-2012, 09:06 PM
Does an Australian dictionary define the word bias as meaning having a preference? It is one of the many meanings listed in an American dictionary. Indeed I have a preference. My reasons given were quantifiable and based upon the information provided on the Gotoh official website. My questions were about what was not plainly stated.

MisterRios
09-08-2012, 11:12 PM
I just checked the official Gotoh site. Spendy!! Not what I would call attractive and unobtrusive. You call 15 grams each as light? How about PEGHEDS www.pegheds.net at 20 grams for all four? What is their warranty? It says where the design came from, but does not say where they are made. PEGHEDS are made from USA metal, machinists, and only the wooden buttons come from India. Chrome PEGHEDS with ivoroid buttons are in the developmental stage. The front side nut of the Gotohs will not allow the strings to wind down to the headstock. Downbearing on the nut is reduced. I would still stick with PEGHEDS even if I were not a distributor. :~)

So, then, to get back on topic, we can infer that you have not used them.

To the OP, I think these were just announced, so it might be a while before we see them out in the wild. Personally, I think they're hideous. I'll stick with direct tuners.

The Big Kahuna
09-09-2012, 12:32 AM
I like the look of the Grover Champions.

joeybug
09-09-2012, 01:27 AM
Does an Australian dictionary define the word bias as meaning having a preference? It is one of the many meanings listed in an American dictionary. Indeed I have a preference. My reasons given were quantifiable and based upon the information provided on the Gotoh official website. My questions were about what was not plainly stated.

It's not a preference, it's that you are paid to say it, therefore making you biased.

As far as the OP, I've never tried them, but have heard both good about bad things about gotoh tuners, and am not sure if I would want to use them, they look a little plain and although I only have one Uke with friction tuners (my flea) I'm still getting used to them and have a preference for geared tuners and no, I wasn't paid to say that ;)

Liam Ryan
09-09-2012, 01:39 AM
Does an Australian dictionary define the word bias as meaning having a preference? It is one of the many meanings listed in an American dictionary. Indeed I have a preference. My reasons given were quantifiable and based upon the information provided on the Gotoh official website. My questions were about what was not plainly stated.

The thread had nothing to do with pegheads. That is until you wandered in trying to hock your wares. Your post are not questions, they are sales pitches. In Australia we'd call that the height of rudeness. No need for a dictionary on that one. It means the same as in America. If the moderators have no problems with your posts that's fine, it's not my forum after all.

joeybug
09-09-2012, 01:44 AM
The thread had nothing to do with pegheads. That is until you wandered in trying to hock your wares. Your post are not questions, they are sales pitches. In Australia we'd call that the height of rudeness. No need for a dictionary on that one. It means the same as in America. If the moderators have no problems with your posts that's fine, it's not my forum after all.

:agree: with that totally. Well said!

Plainsong
09-09-2012, 03:28 AM
The planetaries on the Risa tenor uke solid don't look like these, but I wish they did. Those planetaries are awful. There's too much play, and the strings go flat flat flat flat, sharp! Not precise and a pain to use. I have a feeling they're not the best tuners around, but people bugged him to change the frictions so he did.

And as for the PEGHEDS guy - seriously?? PEGHEDS (I'm gonna shout the name from now on because that seems to be the thing to do) are good tuners, they have their foibles but they work and are an option among many. But you're aggression in pushing the brand is doing it no favors.

ScooterD35
09-09-2012, 04:16 AM
Here's a post in the Acoustic Guitar Forum with pictures of these installed and pricing. At $69.98 for chrome with white buttons they're certainly comparable to Pegheads.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264344

They're just a smaller version of planetary banjo tuners, which have been around for many decades. They look just fine to me and probably work very well. I look forward to trying them out.


Scooter

coolkayaker1
09-09-2012, 04:20 AM
Here's a post in the Acoustic Guitar Forum with pictures of these installed and pricing. At $69.98 for chrome with white buttons they're certainly comparable to Pegheads.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264344

They're just a smaller version of planetary banjo tuners, which have been around for many decades. They look just fine to me and probably work very well. I look forward to trying them out.


Scooter

I'm with Scooter. Gotoh's reputation for tuners is impeccable, and I have them on a couple of my ukes and they are fabulous, but I don't have these planetary types. The weight is insignificant on a tenor, and less weight than traditional closed tuners ( such as those used on tenors by Mya Moe).

I see, and this is key, they come in black! I'm strongly considering having a custom tenor from Pohaku with these in all black.

coolkayaker1
09-09-2012, 04:23 AM
[QUOTE=Plainsong;And as for the PEGHEDS guy - seriously?? PEGHEDS (I'm gonna shout the name from now on because that seems to be the thing to do) are good tuners, they have their foibles but they work and are an option among many. But you're aggression in pushing the brand is doing it no favors.[/QUOTE]


I agree, plainsong. But I guess when one's daily bread is based on Peghead sales, some will opt to be so single- minded as to be unhelpful. He has chosen this route.

pakhan
09-09-2012, 06:52 AM
So no one has first hand experience- no worries, I'll wait for a few to be tested out.
I am looking for alternative tuners all the time- by preference for Gotoh stealth is only tempered by the non traditional look and for waverlys to be the weight.
And no, I don't like plastic construction for a higher end uke tuner.

Paul December
09-09-2012, 07:01 AM
The thread had nothing to do with pegheads. That is until you wandered in trying to hock your wares. Your post are not questions, they are sales pitches. In Australia we'd call that the height of rudeness. No need for a dictionary on that one. It means the same as in America. If the moderators have no problems with your posts that's fine, it's not my forum after all.

Give the guy a break already...
...Geesh, there are far bigger shills on this forum and nobody seems to have a problem with them :rolleyes:
He at least identified himself as a dealer.

Paul December
09-09-2012, 07:02 AM
Anyone know why they are called "planetary"?

RichM
09-09-2012, 07:22 AM
Anyone know why they are called "planetary"?

Planetary gear pegs use a system where turning the peg turns a central gear (sometimes called a "sun gear") which in turns smaller gears that surround it, like planets. Hence, "planetary gears."

Edited to add this cool graphic, which isn't of tuners, but makes the point pretty well:

http://yantrikz.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/bbc_gears1.gif

808boy
09-09-2012, 08:25 AM
Planetary gear pegs use a system where turning the peg turns a central gear (sometimes called a "sun gear") which in turns smaller gears that surround it, like planets. Hence, "planetary gears."

Edited to add this cool graphic, which isn't of tuners, but makes the point pretty well:

http://yantrikz.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/bbc_gears1.gif

Coming from a Mechanical background, could'nt have explained it any better..................COOL.................

The Big Kahuna
09-09-2012, 08:28 AM
That's more hypnotic than an animated gif of boobies.

Paul December
09-09-2012, 08:39 AM
Thanks 808boy for that explanation :)

Dan Uke
12-16-2012, 06:10 AM
That's more hypnotic than an animated gif of boobies.

I don't know...illustrations please :o

ksiegel
12-16-2012, 07:03 PM
I know I mentioned this on another thread... somewhere...

One of my local musician friends got a set of the GoToh planetary tuners, and installed them on his National Resonator Ukulele.

He said that the price was comparable to PegHed tuners, BUT he was able to install the GoToh tuners himself, but would have has to pay a luthier to install the Pegheds. THAT was what made his decision. (He likes peghed tuners.)

I played the National. it feels good, and sound good, and the GoTohs are as responsive as the old 5-Star planetary tuners I have on my 5-string banjo.

I do NOT sell tuners, PegHed or otherwise. I love my PegHeds. I will Specify Pegheds on any custom ukulele I get. Any disadvantage from weight on the National was not noticeable.

The GoToh tuners look big & clunky, while the PegHeds are sleek. They both work. I think the GoTohs were the right decision for the National Resonator Uke, but each instrument is different, as is each player.

Honestly, I like 'em both.



-Kurt

TheCraftedCow
12-16-2012, 09:43 PM
I would be glad to give you the name of others who sell PEGHEDS in the USA,
France and Thailand. Read www.ukeeku.com review of the item. He would probably meet your standards for non-biased comparison of different devices for adjusting string tensions.

southcoastukes
12-18-2012, 03:06 PM
We're using Pegheds on all our Ukuleles. Installation should be no problem for a luthier who knows how to do a tapered hole, it only takes just a little bit longer.

If your ukulele has more of a "guitar style", Gotohs should present no weight problems on Tenors or Baritones. Our ukuleles have more of a vintage feel - the Pegheds fit that style, but the Gotohs are very cool as well. We'll use them on our 4-string classical Tenor Guitars, although guitars also started out with pegs ( a lot of flamencos still use them today).

wendellfiddler
01-09-2013, 05:08 AM
I'm considering replacing gotoh delux frictions on a tenor and as I explored the options I had originally ruled out the planetary pegs as too heavy. I thought about Waverly or Gotoh open tuners which are very nice, but I was surprised to discover that the planetary Gotohs are significantly lighter than most of the geared tuners out there (other than pegheds of course). The Planetary pegs are about 2.2 oz and the Waverly about 3 oz. Pegheds of course are much lighter but I've also found that a little weight on the peghead isn't such a bad thing and I have pegheds on two of my ukes. I like them, but on this one I'd like to have the collar to cover the indentations left by the gotohs and I'd like to have something different anyway. So I'm still considering them. I might have to have actually see them - have them in hand in order to decide for sure.

Nicko
01-09-2013, 05:26 AM
Give the guy a break already...
...Geesh, there are far bigger shills on this forum and nobody seems to have a problem with them :rolleyes:
He at least identified himself as a dealer.

+1

And he did provide some info useful for comparison. Also risked this resulting downside of doing himself more harm than good by offering the compare/contrast. It's easy enough to take what we like from a thread and leave the rest. I've got no objection to a guy putting bread on his table -- within reasonable limits, and I thought he was.

ukeeku
01-09-2013, 05:35 AM
I am a PegHed lover, would put them on everything. My only concern with the Gotoh is the weight. On a banjo or reso uke that would not matter, they are heavy. for a "normal" uke, I think the weight would mess with the balance and make the uke head heavy. They make amazing tuners that are very innovative.

BlackBearUkes
01-09-2013, 09:32 AM
I am a PegHed lover, would put them on everything. My only concern with the Gotoh is the weight. On a banjo or reso uke that would not matter, they are heavy. for a "normal" uke, I think the weight would mess with the balance and make the uke head heavy. They make amazing tuners that are very innovative.

I have used 5 Star planetary tuners (Made for dulcimers) on practical every tenor I have made and they are definitely NOT too heavy. If you don't build ukes then you don't know what you are talking about when discussing weight on the peg head end of the uke.

PedalFreak
01-09-2013, 10:37 AM
I just checked the official Gotoh site. Spendy!! Not what I would call attractive and unobtrusive. You call 15 grams each as light? How about PEGHEDS www.pegheds.net at 20 grams for all four? What is their warranty? It says where the design came from, but does not say where they are made. PEGHEDS are made from USA metal, machinists, and only the wooden buttons come from India. Chrome PEGHEDS with ivoroid buttons are in the developmental stage. The front side nut of the Gotohs will not allow the strings to wind down to the headstock. Downbearing on the nut is reduced. I would still stick with PEGHEDS even if I were not a distributor. :~)

Pegheds are nice, but they feel cheap, and look cheap too.

hawaii 50
01-09-2013, 10:42 AM
I have used 5 Star planetary tuners (Made for dulcimers) on practical every tenor I have made and they are definitely NOT too heavy. If you don't build ukes then you don't know what you are talking about when discussing weight on the peg head end of the uke.


I must of missed something here..is Ukeeku a luthier? he once told me he has made many repairs on ukuleles..and has been working on uke for years..

and i like the PegHed tuners..i like that they look like old style friction tuners

AndrewKuker
01-09-2013, 01:42 PM
I really feel that these are something you guys should experience first hand. We recently got in 16 unique sets to decide on what we will stock. They feel lighter than your average friction peg, I actually don't even feel weight, I must be super strong, lol. Size wise they are NOT bulky. They are more petite than almost any other friction peg. A very boutique look. The materials are extremely high quality. I put two Different planetary's on one side of a KoAlana. And three on a Pono to compare with common friction pegs.

https://s4ee134128e51b.img.gostorego.com/802754/cdn/media/s4/ee/13/41/28/e5/1b/Gotoh_Planetary_-KoAlana.jpg

https://s4ee134128e51b.img.gostorego.com/802754/cdn/media/s4/ee/13/41/28/e5/1b/Gotoh_Planetary_Pono.jpg

TCC, bro....golden rule

coolkayaker1
01-09-2013, 02:10 PM
Andrew--I have heard so much pure conjecture about the weight of these Gotohs beacuse they "look heavy". Since you're the only one we know that has them, could you please throw them on a ounce/gram scale and put this to rest once and for all. How much do four of them weigh? How much do four KoAlana friction tuners weigh?

PS If you don't have a simple scale, here's the one I use--it's the size of an iPhone, measures up to a pound and a half, has a great cover, and you can weigh whole ukes balanced on it...it's awesome, for NAMM and stuff. (I own three of them--I'm an ultra-light hammock camper and thus a weigh wonk. The "coolreviewer" Amazon review of it is from...well...me. lol).

http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Scale-Ac-650-Digital/dp/B0026KXU7W/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1357780183&sr=8-5&keywords=gram+scale+american+weight

Dan Uke
01-09-2013, 02:12 PM
I have used 5 Star planetary tuners (Made for dulcimers) on practical every tenor I have made and they are definitely NOT too heavy. If you don't build ukes then you don't know what you are talking about when discussing weight on the peg head end of the uke.

Why do you have to be a luthier? All you need to do is install a few difft tuners and decide if it's too heavy...Isn't head heavy a subjective matter?

jwieties
01-09-2013, 02:27 PM
My new David Newton tenor will have these. Have a with pegheds on a covered bridge and love them, but I wanted something different. Thought these looked cool and since the weigh less then standard geared tuners, I wasn't concerned about the weight. I'll tell you what I think in a couple months. :)

me2cyclops
01-09-2013, 02:27 PM
any pics of how they look from the face of the headstock insatlled?

jwieties
01-09-2013, 02:29 PM
any pics of how they look from the face of the headstock insatlled?

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.340063476085251.79188.234542309970702&type=1

pakhan
01-09-2013, 03:36 PM
I really feel that these are something you guys should experience first hand. We recently got in 16 unique sets to decide on what we will stock. They feel lighter than your average friction peg, I actually don't even feel weight, I must be super strong, lol. Size wise they are NOT bulky. They are more petite than almost any other friction peg. A very boutique look. The materials are extremely high quality. I put two Different planetary's on one side of a KoAlana. And three on a Pono to compare with common friction pegs.

Thanks Andrew- I still consider the backplate/ planery device a little bulky- compared to the say, pono model which is more sleek. The overall size though is smaller than the competitors. Thanks for the photos though, it saves me from having to order in a whole load of sets to try out!

Terence

BlackBearUkes
01-09-2013, 03:43 PM
Andrew, I am looking forward to trying these pegs. They are certainly smaller and probably lighter than the 5 Star planetary pegs. And just for the record, I don't like Pegheds.

japarts
01-09-2013, 03:54 PM
We took several hundred photos - 15 different finish/button combinations installed and strung up on a headstock from face-on to the back and around the other side. I haven't gone through them all, yet, but if there's a combo/view you're interested I could process and post it.

JP1-CW
JP1-G
JP2B-B
JP2B-CW
JP2B-G
JP2M-CW
JP2M-G
UB4B-B
UB4B-CW
UB4B-G
UB5B-B
UB5B-CW
UB5B-G
UBB-B
UBN-CW

They look like this:

47325

japarts
01-09-2013, 03:59 PM
Andrew--I have heard so much pure conjecture about the weight of these Gotohs beacuse they "look heavy". Since you're the only one we know that has them, could you please throw them on a ounce/gram scale and put this to rest once and for all. How much do four of them weigh?

Here's one we took back in May of 2012, so it's a prototype but it was in the late stages.

47326

Skinny Money McGee
01-09-2013, 04:31 PM
I really feel that these are something you guys should experience first hand. We recently got in 16 unique sets to decide on what we will stock. They feel lighter than your average friction peg, I actually don't even feel weight, I must be super strong, lol. Size wise they are NOT bulky. They are more petite than almost any other friction peg. A very boutique look. The materials are extremely high quality. I put two Different planetary's on one side of a KoAlana. And three on a Pono to compare with common friction pegs.




Did you have to ream the holes out at all on either side of the headstock? or are they an exact fit/replacement of the Gotoh deluxe friction tuners.

**** edit ****

Ok, so it will take some drilling or reaming on both sides, to install these on an existing uke with friction Gotoh's

coolkayaker1
01-09-2013, 06:51 PM
Thanks, J. So, there it is... A full set is 60 grams. That's 2.12 ounces.

I'm in!

wendellfiddler
01-09-2013, 07:12 PM
About an ounce less than most high ratio (12, 14, or 16 to 1) geared side tuners!

Doug

pdxuke
01-09-2013, 07:50 PM
Count me one who would try them if they fit a standard hole without alteration.

japarts
01-09-2013, 07:56 PM
Count me one who would try them if they fit a standard hole without alteration.

The dimensions can be found here: http://japarts.ca/Content/News/unsized/UPT-Diagram.gif

TheCraftedCow
01-09-2013, 09:26 PM
One's daily bread is not based on PEGHED sales. The weight and price factor of Gotoh planetary tuners take them out of comparison to anything else lighter and less expensive.

Plainsong
01-10-2013, 02:08 AM
One's daily bread is not based on PEGHED sales. The weight and price factor of Gotoh planetary tuners take them out of comparison to anything else lighter and less expensive.

What about tuning ratio? There are some very accurate tuners out there (for example, stuff offered by Peterson), and I can tell you that the PEGHEDS, while they do their job, are NOT as precise as geared tuners. 4:1 is not enough. Tuning is still a hassle. If you have a lesser tuner or your ears don't hear intonation issues, then fine, great.

It's just that you harp on and on and on and on (doing PEGHEDS no favors in doing so, BTW) about weight and cost, but you can't answer the question of precision, because you can't. What if a player has perfect pitch? What then? And PEGHEDS are used by string players, of which plenty do have perfect pitch. I guess that yeah, the PEGHEDS are better than the wood tuners they were using... but if some company figures out how to make a classical style planetary tuner with a better tuning ratio... the PEGHED brand is gonna be in trouble.

So maybe in the string world, they don't have much competition. But in the fretted string world, they most certainly do, and we have plenty of choice of tuners out there. PEGHEDS are just ONE CHOICE. They're fine. They have their benefits. But they also have drawbacks. And dude you do NO FAVORS by shilling so freaking much for them.

stevepetergal
01-10-2013, 04:27 AM
The planetaries on the Risa tenor uke solid don't look like these, but I wish they did. Those planetaries are awful. There's too much play, and the strings go flat flat flat flat, sharp! Not precise and a pain to use. I have a feeling they're not the best tuners around, but people bugged him to change the frictions so he did.

I know this is not on topic with this thread, but it was mentioned here and I feel compelled to respond.

The tuners on the Risa Uke Solid are really very good. I've been playing one for a few years now, and am quite certain that the problem lies in the grooved bar around which the strings turn, between the bridge and the tuners, and the sharpness of they angle they come off of it on the tuner side. From all the posts I've read and my experience, the biggest problem is with tuning string #1. This one comes off the bar at the sharpest angle, so the groove in the bar grips the string far more tightly than on string #2, even less as you go up. Consequently, turn and turn and turn again on #1 and you may get no change in the tension in the speaking length of the string. Turn once more and ping, all of a sudden it jumps too far, just as Plainsong describes. This is because the difference in string tension between the speaking length and non-speaking length of the string suddenly overcomes the grip the groove has on it. (Tune using headphones and you can actually hear it happen, "thump," if you listen very closely) The grip is so tight, in fact, that there have been many complaints about strings breaking while tuning. And it's always string #1. Makes tuning tricky, but it's definitely not the tuners' fault.

wendellfiddler
01-10-2013, 08:54 AM
I know this is not on topic with this thread, but it was mentioned here and I feel compelled to respond.

The tuners on the Risa Uke Solid are really very good. I've been playing one for a few years now, and am quite certain that the problem lies in the grooved bar around which the strings turn, between the bridge and the tuners, and the sharpness of they angle they come off of it on the tuner side. From all the posts I've read and my experience, the biggest problem is with tuning string #1. This one comes off the bar at the sharpest angle, so the groove in the bar grips the string far more tightly than on string #2, even less as you go up. Consequently, turn and turn and turn again on #1 and you may get no change in the tension in the speaking length of the string. Turn once more and ping, all of a sudden it jumps too far, just as Plainsong describes. This is because the difference in string tension between the speaking length and non-speaking length of the string suddenly overcomes the grip the groove has on it. (Tune using headphones and you can actually hear it happen, "thump," if you listen very closely) The grip is so tight, in fact, that there have been many complaints about strings breaking while tuning. And it's always string #1. Makes tuning tricky, but it's definitely not the tuners' fault.

This is confusing - there's talk about friction pegs?? Friction pegs aren't really planetary pegs. Planetary pegs have gears that revolve around the main shaft. That's how they work. Peghed are not like other planetary gears. The way I understand it is they have tapered worm gears. Friction pegs are friction pegs. So this peg that you and previous poster are referring to, it's a friction peg or a planetary peg?

hawaii 50
01-10-2013, 09:43 AM
Here's one we took back in May of 2012, so it's a prototype but it was in the late stages.

47326




Hey Andrew i like the way this Gotoh one looks the best! it has a normal looking button on it and i like it in black with the chrome..

coolkayaker1
01-10-2013, 09:43 AM
This is confusing - there's talk about friction pegs?? Friction pegs aren't really planetary pegs. Planetary pegs have gears that revolve around the main shaft. That's how they work. Peghed are not like other planetary gears. The way I understand it is they have tapered worm gears. Friction pegs are friction pegs. So this peg that you and previous poster are referring to, it's a friction peg or a planetary peg?

Newer Risa ukes have Risa-proprietary geared tuners that look just like friction pegs.

Pdxuke, you can maybe put these gotoh planetary pegs on your concert Martin and get things "right" again. Those dog ears have got to go bye bye.

Plainsong
01-10-2013, 10:15 AM
This is confusing - there's talk about friction pegs?? Friction pegs aren't really planetary pegs. Planetary pegs have gears that revolve around the main shaft. That's how they work. Peghed are not like other planetary gears. The way I understand it is they have tapered worm gears. Friction pegs are friction pegs. So this peg that you and previous poster are referring to, it's a friction peg or a planetary peg?

No, they're geared. They just look like friction pegs. Like the tuners that are the subject of ths thread.

Steve, I got your pm, but I'm not really handy at fixing things and never had a string actually break. I can say it happens on all strings though. Still it's a good explanation as to why. :)

AndrewKuker
01-10-2013, 11:23 AM
Yes, these require reaming, about as much as installing regular geared tuners. Get a luthier to do the work or get a good reamer, (online is StewMac). These are very smooth and very accurate. If you can not get in tune or good intonation with these tuners then it is nothing to do with them. Even a 1:1 ratio can do that, it's just harder to get and the only thing holding is ..friction, not gears locked together.

Of course, If your perfect pitch is too perfect, you are damned to play violin for life. No uke for you, you hear too good:p

Plainsong
01-10-2013, 12:00 PM
Yeah, when I had a go about gear ratio, it's not like you can't get in tune even with frictions. I like frictions. And it's not that I dislike pegheds, so much as I can see a downside. Pros and cons and all that. I don't have perfect pitch myself, there was just a time when I was surrounded by people who did. If they were gonna spring for a tuner upgrade, they'd treat themselves to easy-peesy tuning over parts of a gram of weight loss. :)


Yes, these require reaming, about as much as installing regular geared tuners. Get a luthier to do the work or get a good reamer, (online is StewMac). These are very smooth and very accurate. If you can not get in tune or good intonation with these tuners then it is nothing to do with them. Even a 1:1 ratio can do that, it's just harder to get and the only thing holding is ..friction, not gears locked together.

Of course, If your perfect pitch is too perfect, you are damned to play violin for life. No uke for you, you hear too good:p

Dan Uke
01-10-2013, 12:07 PM
Yes, these require reaming, about as much as installing regular geared tuners. Get a luthier to do the work or get a good reamer, (online is StewMac). These are very smooth and very accurate. If you can not get in tune or good intonation with these tuners then it is nothing to do with them. Even a 1:1 ratio can do that, it's just harder to get and the only thing holding is ..friction, not gears locked together.

Of course, If your perfect pitch is too perfect, you are damned to play violin for life. No uke for you, you hear too good:p

Yeah, you should check out Chuck and Rick both say about perfect intonation.

Rick Turner
01-10-2013, 02:04 PM
Fretted instruments are inherently out of tune because of the tempered scale fret placement tuning just as pianos and most other keyboard instruments are inherently out of tune...pianos for even more reasons than just tempered scale. Everyone seems to hear correct intonation pitch "windows" slightly differently, so what we are going for is the least obnoxious out of tune tuning possible. There is a great book on this whole subject, "How Tempered Tuning Ruined Harmony"; it's pretty dense stuff, but it's the truth and it's all in the math. The whole compromise with tempered tuning was to make instruments that could play more or less equally out of tune in any of the 12 major and 12 minor keys used in Western music. Some folks are incredibly sensitive to pitch, and for the most extreme of them, tempered scales can be physically painful. Many instruments outside of the European tradition...North and South Indian, Arab countries, African, etc...are tuned to scales based on the true harmonic series which is NOT tempered. Hence the use of notes that are between our notes using what are often incorrectly called 1/4 tones. They're actually rarely half way between a natural and sharped Western note, but they do lay between.

BlackBearUkes
01-10-2013, 02:12 PM
Yes, these require reaming, about as much as installing regular geared tuners. Get a luthier to do the work or get a good reamer, (online is StewMac). These are very smooth and very accurate. If you can not get in tune or good intonation with these tuners then it is nothing to do with them. Even a 1:1 ratio can do that, it's just harder to get and the only thing holding is ..friction, not gears locked together.

Of course, If your perfect pitch is too perfect, you are damned to play violin for life. No uke for you, you hear too good:p

I am looking forward to trying these pegs. Their size, weight and looks are something I have been wanting for years and all I can say is...Its about time!

AndrewKuker
01-10-2013, 04:36 PM
Just stuck some on my new little baby, Ohana SK-21..pff, how did I ever play those bulky sopranos??

https://s4ee134128e51b.img.gostorego.com/802754/cdn/media/s4/ee/13/41/28/e5/1b/Gotoh_Planetary_1.4.jpg

pakhan
01-11-2013, 03:08 AM
. Even a 1:1 ratio can do that, it's just harder to get and the only thing holding is ..friction, not gears locked together.

Yeah 1:1, 4:1 is just fine for until I have a couple of beers... and that's when the trouble began... :P

Plainsong
01-11-2013, 03:55 AM
I'm kinda sensitive but not really, not to that level. But that's an interesting perspective. Meanwhile, the ear training part of theory trains up our ears to be even more sensitive, but only to Western modes. I guess we have that period or music up to about 1750 to thank for deciding what is "right."


Fretted instruments are inherently out of tune because of the tempered scale fret placement tuning just as pianos and most other keyboard instruments are inherently out of tune...pianos for even more reasons than just tempered scale. Everyone seems to hear correct intonation pitch "windows" slightly differently, so what we are going for is the least obnoxious out of tune tuning possible. There is a great book on this whole subject, "How Tempered Tuning Ruined Harmony"; it's pretty dense stuff, but it's the truth and it's all in the math. The whole compromise with tempered tuning was to make instruments that could play more or less equally out of tune in any of the 12 major and 12 minor keys used in Western music. Some folks are incredibly sensitive to pitch, and for the most extreme of them, tempered scales can be physically painful. Many instruments outside of the European tradition...North and South Indian, Arab countries, African, etc...are tuned to scales based on the true harmonic series which is NOT tempered. Hence the use of notes that are between our notes using what are often incorrectly called 1/4 tones. They're actually rarely half way between a natural and sharped Western note, but they do lay between.

ScooterD35
01-11-2013, 04:06 AM
I have used 5 Star planetary tuners (Made for dulcimers) on practical every tenor I have made and they are definitely NOT too heavy. If you don't build ukes then you don't know what you are talking about when discussing weight on the peg head end of the uke.


I think this an extremely unfair statement. To suggest that a player can't feel the difference in headstock weights is, IMO, rude at best.

In my experience, the best Luthiers build to the preferences of their clients and would never tell them that they don't know what they are talking about with regard to the feel of an instrument when being played.

Scooter

AndrewKuker
01-11-2013, 04:42 AM
Ya know I was thinking about this…Have you guys seen the stealth tuner? 18:1 ratio and the thing is tiny! Crazy small, extremely smooth, and amazingly strong.
Why cant the shaft you turn connecting to the larger gear come from the back to be rear mount style? Higher ratio is just smaller turning larger gears. So what's the big deal. We have traveled into space many years ago and still we struggle with this ability to have a high ratio rear mount.

Now that's not saying I think it is necessary. I also won't say you guys hardly go beyond the 7th so it doesn't matter. I just think 4:1 gets you where you need to go faster. Because there is a place you need to get to. An exact tempered place equally compensated. And it can take you there. if everything else is waiting.

We have done a lot of business with Hosco, but went with JapParts on this because they helped design and have the exclusives on the best ones (IMO), like these-

https://s4ee134128e51b.img.gostorego.com/802754/cdn/media/s4/ee/13/41/28/e5/1b/jp_upl.jpg

Hey Josh, Im right on that? Oh, maybe you should start crackin' the whip on those R&D potheads that can't figure out how to turn a gear sideways. (JK! Don't say that)

jbm
01-11-2013, 04:43 AM
Anyone know off hand if the Gotoh planetary tuners will install on a Kamaka soprano without drilling? Or those in this picture?



Just stuck some on my new little baby, Ohana SK-21..pff, how did I ever play those bulky sopranos??

https://s4ee134128e51b.img.gostorego.com/802754/cdn/media/s4/ee/13/41/28/e5/1b/Gotoh_Planetary_1.4.jpg

Nicko
01-11-2013, 04:52 AM
I'm thinking of trying them on my Martin S-1, too. But don't want to have to alter the wood at all. Being a new ukulele fanatic, I've never changed out ukulele tuners before. Are they pretty much standard in dimensions -- as far as fitting through the headstock is concerned, that is? One of the major factors for deciding not to try Pegheds (along with not being sure I want such a radical departure from the look of the instrument as delivered from Martin) was my reluctance to alter the headstock. Seems like that would be a pain to deal with on the return trip.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
01-11-2013, 05:57 AM
My personal opinion doesn't mean much but I just don't like the bulky styling. I'd be reluctant to use them on my ukes. And BTW, did all music really suck before the advent of electronic tuners?

thejumpingflea
01-11-2013, 05:59 AM
My personal opinion doesn't mean much but I just don't like the bulky styling. I'd be reluctant to use them on my ukes. And BTW, did all music really suck before the advent of electronic tuners?

Of course it did! Nothing good came out of the music world until the 2000's. Everyone knows that, Chuck.

:P

AndrewKuker
01-11-2013, 06:47 AM
My personal opinion doesn't mean much but I just don't like the bulky styling. I'd be reluctant to use them on my ukes. And BTW, did all music really suck before the advent of electronic tuners?

Well ya, not on yours. Even the best quality tennis shoe will look funny with a tuxedo. But what are you gonna want to have on when the pigs show up? Ya, no idea what I'm talkin about. But Pegheds are the best on your Ukes. No matter how irking their rep can be. Still a cool product best for certain instruments. I feel that these have their place and offer a finer tuning option for this style look.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
01-11-2013, 07:09 AM
You are correct Andrew, if you like that style they look like an excellent tuner by your description and photos. (Great photo BTW.) I think I mentioned that my tastes are personal and shouldn't matter to anyone but me. Nor do I think Pegheds are the best choice on all ukes, and while I do use them, I am not a fanboy, as they have there shortcomings as well. I've yet to find the perfect tuner that satisfies all of my needs.

Nicko
01-11-2013, 07:14 AM
And BTW, did all music really suck before the advent of electronic tuners?

Old joke from my old timey string band days: "Banjo players spend half their lives tuning...[wait for it]...and the other half playing out of tune.

This, of course, a joke arising from the reality that banjo players had to retune to play in different keys. Some of our set lists kept the banjoist busy...intentionally, sometimes. Poor guy. LOL

Dan Uke
01-11-2013, 07:30 AM
Does any remember that thread where they play two notes and you have to guess higher or lower and each time you get it right, the decrease the difference in cents? Of course it wasn't a perfect test but I got really far and you know what, it sucks cuz I couldn't enjoy music when I first played the uke. Now that I am a better musician I accept imperfect pitch and the uke is so much fun!! I don't need 18:1 ratio!!

The Big Kahuna
01-11-2013, 07:41 AM
http://www.perfectionpegs.twofold.com.au/index.html

Hmmmmmmm

ukeeku
01-11-2013, 07:54 AM
http://www.perfectionpegs.twofold.com.au/index.html

Hmmmmmmm

I second that hmmmmm. Wonder if Jon knows about them?

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
01-11-2013, 08:19 AM
Knilling Perfection Planetary Pegs....Made in Taiwan..........http://www.knilling.com/

grendel1972
01-11-2013, 09:35 AM
Does any remember that thread where they play two notes and you have to guess higher or lower and each time you get it right, the decrease the difference in cents? Of course it wasn't a perfect test but I got really far and you know what, it sucks cuz I couldn't enjoy music when I first played the uke. Now that I am a better musician I accept imperfect pitch and the uke is so much fun!! I don't need 18:1 ratio!!

Having played viola most of my life, I at first had a negative reaction to the limitations of intonation on a fretted instrument. Like you have, I've come to grips with the fact that intonation on a fretted instrument will never be perfect. And you know what, that's okay. I love playing the uke and I have come to believe that this slight dissonance is part of what gives a guitar/uke/mandolin/banjo part of it's character and I no longer think it would sound "right" to take that away.

wendellfiddler
01-11-2013, 10:58 AM
Just an opinion/comment on pegheds, which as I've said before, I like very much - however, they do seem to have what I would describe as a little bit of flex in them. Not slack, but flex like small tree branch or something like that. I've got frictions, gears and pegheds and even planetary gears (on a banjo) on various instruments here and only the pegheds have that sort of flex. It takes a little getting used to.

Duk

japarts
01-11-2013, 11:27 AM
Hey Josh, Im right on that? Oh, maybe you should start crackin' the whip on those R&D potheads that can't figure out how to turn a gear sideways. (JK! Don't say that)

I leave the engineering to the engineers and they say that size definitely matters. I'm almost certain they're talking about gears.

coolkayaker1
01-11-2013, 12:10 PM
I don't need 18:1 ratio!!

It's 1:1 for me, baby. I crank it one way and the string slops off the peg, and I crank it the other way and it snaps off in my kisser.

Plainsong
01-11-2013, 02:03 PM
Does any remember that thread where they play two notes and you have to guess higher or lower and each time you get it right, the decrease the difference in cents? Of course it wasn't a perfect test but I got really far and you know what, it sucks cuz I couldn't enjoy music when I first played the uke. Now that I am a better musician I accept imperfect pitch and the uke is so much fun!! I don't need 18:1 ratio!!

Yes! Because I did better and better as I plugged in more and more expensive headphones/DACs to do the test. Funny how that works. ;) Also the test results were skewed based on the gender you pick. I got down to 0.09hz difference, and the result showed as .3. Looking at the thread, I remember that now because I was gonna be all pleased, and there the test result showed something different and I was feeling dumb for believing something on the internet. I'm going with the 0.09, because I only started having issues below that. And it's just a function of paying really really close attention, and having decent headphones.

You can have good days and bad though. Lots of times, if I use my ear to tune, everything will be a couple cents sharp. All in tune with themselves, but perfectly 2 cents sharp. Why? I don't even...

http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?56953-Test-your-ability-to-differentiate-pitch

AndrewKuker
01-11-2013, 02:21 PM
I should note that JaParts, and you can PM Josh here, is the North American distributor. They should have these for sale soon. (weren't supposed to be released until NAMM) So check them out if you wanna give them a go.
We are just planning on having them as an optional upgrade on Kamaka, Koaloha, Kiwaya etc. at a price that will hardly be worth it, but part of the service we offer.
We are cool with selling sets to friends once in a while but won't be listing them individually. There is reaming involved so understand that they won't retrofit without the proper tools and time.

Dan Uke
01-11-2013, 02:54 PM
It's 1:1 for me, baby. I crank it one way and the string slops off the peg, and I crank it the other way and it snaps off in my kisser.

That only happens to me all the time on the kind of bridge where I gotta make a knot in the string and stick in the hole...I would be afraid of the pin style as I hear horror stories of them flying across the rooom!!

Plainsong
01-11-2013, 04:25 PM
That only happens to me all the time on the kind of bridge where I gotta make a knot in the string and stick in the hole...I would be afraid of the pin style as I hear horror stories of them flying across the rooom!!

I had a uke with bridge pins, that the builder left no room in the body for strings. It was a solid body. It led to pin launching on every tune-up. I felt like the kid in A Christmas Story. Took it to a local luthier, and he was amazed that the guy who built it thought it was ok to leave no room for the strings. It was bending the channels in the plastic pins. Not good.

But with the Kanilea, the only fail is me and my knot-tying. They even made channels in the bridge to help you guide the strings home. So what I do, is put little bead ends. Sure it's tougher taking the strings out, but putting them in... the easiest uke to string. So pin bridges can be awesome, Just use beads. :)

devvyleys
01-11-2013, 05:50 PM
I should note that JaParts, and you can PM Josh here, is the North American distributor. They should have these for sale soon. (weren't supposed to be released until NAMM) So check them out if you wanna give them a go.
We are just planning on having them as an optional upgrade on Kamaka, Koaloha, Kiwaya etc. at a price that will hardly be worth it, but part of the service we offer.
We are cool with selling sets to friends once in a while but won't be listing them individually. There is reaming involved so understand that they won't retrofit without the proper tools and time.
Thanks for all the great info and views you're providing here, Andrew. Any chance the Koalanas will be included among the ones allowing the optional upgrade?

AndrewKuker
01-12-2013, 12:28 PM
Thanks for all the great info and views you're providing here, Andrew. Any chance the Koalanas will be included among the ones allowing the optional upgrade?

Yes, they will. Might not have it listed until next month but any special requests in the meantime just call or email. Thanks devvyleys!

specialk13
01-12-2013, 02:29 PM
These Gotohs are cool tuners, they work very well and IMO are quite accurate. Anyone looking for replacement planetary tuners (or is having a uke made) should definitely give these a try. I tried them on a Pepe uke which was extremely light and the peg head was still well balanced with the rest of the uke.
I like Pegheds too but these just feel more solid and more precise. Definitely a cool addition for some ukes.

japarts
01-12-2013, 05:39 PM
I should note that JaParts, and you can PM Josh here, is the North American distributor. They should have these for sale soon. (weren't supposed to be released until NAMM) So check them out if you wanna give them a go.

I should probably clarify that we've been selling them since about September but the early release has meant that we've had no time to advertise properly or strategize (and other projects have tied us up) so they've only been trickling out into the public consciousness. Also, our focus is a little different from most. We want to make everything in Gotoh's catalog available to everyone, so we don't just pick the most popular items and hold them in inventory. We're big fans of being able to get what we want. It takes a bit longer, but we hope that for enough people waiting to get what you really want is better than quickly getting what you're willing to settle for.

hawaii 50
01-14-2013, 08:29 AM
You are correct Andrew, if you like that style they look like an excellent tuner by your description and photos. (Great photo BTW.) I think I mentioned that my tastes are personal and shouldn't matter to anyone but me. Nor do I think Pegheds are the best choice on all ukes, and while I do use them, I am not a fanboy, as they have there shortcomings as well. I've yet to find the perfect tuner that satisfies all of my needs.


Hey Chuck..let me know when you find the perfect tuners..i will start putting them all my new Ukes..Thxs

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
01-14-2013, 08:41 AM
Hey Chuck..let me know when you find the perfect tuners..i will start putting them all my new Ukes..Thxs

I should have elaborated..... while I think some tuners are very, very good, there is not tuner that will be perfect for every application. Take Wavelry's for instance; a very well machined tuner but it's not "perfect" for those on a budget. Nor is it perfect on one of my ukes that might have extensive inlay on the head stock. But in many applications it may be close to being perfect. I think this can be said for most good tuners, including the Gotoh planetary ones. I personally don't happen to like the looks of those but they may be perfect in every other sense. When choosing tuners, there are many things to think about (weight, design, quality, price, gearing, function, etc.) and in this case, "one size does not fit all" but should be considered on an individual basis.

hawaii 50
01-14-2013, 09:01 AM
I should have elaborated..... while I think some tuners are very, very good, there is not tuner that will be perfect for every application. Take Wavelry's for instance; a very well machined tuner but it's not "perfect" for those on a budget. Nor is it perfect on one of my ukes that might have extensive inlay on the head stock. But in many applications it may be close to being perfect. I think this can be said for most good tuners, including the Gotoh planetary ones. I personally don't happen to like the looks of those but they may be perfect in every other sense. When choosing tuners, there are many things to think about (weight, design, quality, price, gearing, function, etc.) and in this case, "one size does not fit all" but should be considered on an individual basis.


I hear you Chuck..i like the PegHeds..they work okay for me..but mainly i like the way they look//old style friction tuners..but i see the point that you like to use them to show off your headstock inlays..
i like how the headstock looks without the tuners(buttons) sticking out the side..

have not tried the real expensive waverly's yet but thinking about it Thxs..

wendellfiddler
01-30-2013, 05:14 AM
I was amazed to learn that the Waverly open geared tuners weigh 3 oz! that info is on the Stew Mac website. 50% more than Gotoh planetary pegs (about 2 oz), 100% more than friction pegs and a kazillion times more than pegheds - since peghed weigh almost nothing (lol)

Duk

ukeeku
01-30-2013, 06:12 AM
I am thinking about ordering a few sets. Not sure if I should do the short or long ones.
If any one else is interested PM me before Monday and I will get back to you on a price.