Questions about finishing top Kamaka lili'u.

I need some help. First off I'm an amateur. I have the Kamaka lili'u that I had holes filled from a plaque and sprayed with laquer that i had someone else do. It looked decent I thought when I got it back but didn't really notice that it didn't have the shiny finish that the rest of the uke had. It really bothered me so I wet sanded the top with 600 grit with the idea to spray a glossy finish with a spray can. I know I'll have to do several if not many coats. I would also add that i sanded with my fingers. Should i sand again with a wood block so as to get a flat surface with no waves? I have several questions about this.

First off do you think this is a job I can take on myself?

Should I order some spray cans of clear nitro for the finish since I have heard Kamakas use nitro finishes?

Should I sand with an even finer sandpaper then 600 before spraying?

Do I wet sand with even finer sandpaper between coats after drying?

I wouldn't blame you if you don't want to take the time to help me as this was a really stupid thing I did but it's to late as there is no turning back now. Any thoughts or suggestions from you guys with experience so as I don't really screw this up. The luthier forum is the only place I could turn to for help as I know I will get good honest answers about what I have gotten myself into. I'll upload a few pics of the top of the uke of what I've sanded so far in a little bit.
Again I can't express enough of how much I know what a jam I've gotten myself into with such a fine uke.
Thanks for any help I get in advance. I'll take a beating from you guys on this as I deserve it.

Mark

This would be what I would do. I would get 1 can of Deft Hi Gloss Lacquer. Home Depot sells it for about $8 a can. I use a Micro-mesh system with my sanding needs. It is available from Luthiers Merchantile for about $20. Spray on multiple coats over your 600 mesh sanding job. Let it dry for 10 days and start sanding again with your 600 then, 800, then get into the micro-mesh 1500, which goes thru about 7 more meshes all the way up to 12000. It is rather tedious, I hate to say. But it does give some nice results. Hopefully someone out there may suggest a better way and we can both learn some more.

Thank you Danny. Any help is much appreciated at tis point in time. I also wouldn't have a problem sending it to an expert to do it for me at this point. I just want it right.

dannyb said:

This would be what I would do. I would get 1 can of Deft Hi Gloss Lacquer. Home Depot sells it for about $8 a can. I use a Micro-mesh system with my sanding needs. It is available from Luthiers Merchantile for about $20. Spray on multiple coats over your 600 mesh sanding job. Let it dry for 10 days and start sanding again with your 600 then, 800, then get into the micro-mesh 1500, which goes thru about 7 more meshes all the way up to 12000. It is rather tedious, I hate to say. But it does give some nice results. Hopefully someone out there may suggest a better way and we can both learn some more.

Click to expand...

You are saying the entire top, right? Not trying to blend two gloss finishes on the same plane? I think you could do this yourself. Wipe the surface lightly with a cloth and mineral spirits, then look at it in good light while it is wet. If you can see (or feel) waves, then go for the sanding block. Your final finish can only ever be as good as the surface you started with.

I've never used the micro mesh but it sounds good. I had nice results wet sanding up to 1200 grit with conventional sandpaper. But if I had had finer grits I might have kept going. If you want to do it yourself, then keep the coats as light as you can stand and do not do not do not skimp on the drying time. Make sure you have an area that is free from dust. It will take you a fair amount of time, and it is as much about restraint as technique. If you doubt your patience, then you might want to find a pro.

Follow product-specific instructions for what to do between coats.

I do have the patience. I just want it to be right. Thank you tobinsuke. I'll keep looking for more advice also.

tobinsuke said:

I think you could do this yourself. Wipe the surface lightly with a cloth and mineral spirits, then look at it in good light while it is wet. If you can see (or feel) waves, then go for the sanding block. Your final finish can only ever be as good as the surface you started with.

I've never used the micro mesh but it sounds good. I had nice results wet sanding up to 1200 grit with conventional sandpaper. But if I had had finer grits I might have kept going. If you want to do it yourself, then keep the coats as light as you can stand and do not do not do not skimp on the drying time. Make sure you have an area that is free from dust. It will take you a fair amount of time, and it is as much about restraint as technique. If you doubt your patience, then you might want to find a pro.

Follow product-specific instructions for what to do between coats.

Click to expand...

I would really like to hear thoughts from some of the great luthiers on this site if they wouldn't mind taking a few minutes of what they think to help me.

You should find out from Kamaka what brand of nitro they are using and if at all possible, use that. Personally, I would never use Deft for any musical instrument. Its too soft from my experience. I would also not use anything out of a spray can, cheap stuff.

Since you want to do the whole top, I would take what finish is left on the top and sand it way back. I would also remove the bridge. I would then use a mixture of new lacquer and lacquer thinner of at least 50/50 for the first coat or two to help amalgamate the new finish to the old. I would then layer up the new lacquer finish of about 4 coats (maybe more depending on how it settles). Let it rest for a week or more. Add more finish if needed and again let it gas off and settle. After 3 or 4 more days, rub it out or buff which ever you are best at. If this sounds too much for you to do, have a professional do it. If you do it yourself and screw it up, it all comes off and can be done again. Good luck.

Thank you for your help on this and your knowledge.

BlackBearUkes said:

You should find out from Kamaka what brand of nitro they are using and if at all possible, use that. Personally, I would never use Deft for any musical instrument. Its too soft from my experience. I would also not use anything out of a spray can, cheap stuff.

Since you want to do the whole top, I would take what finish is left on the top and sand it way back. I would also remove the bridge. I would then use a mixture of new lacquer and lacquer thinner of at least 50/50 to help amalgamate the new finish to the old. I would then layer up the new finish of about 4 coats (maybe more depending on how it settles). Let it rest for a week or more. Add more finish if needed and again let it gas off and settle. After 3 or 4 more days, rub it out or buff which ever you are best at. If this sounds too much for you to do, have a professional do it. If you do it yourself and screw it up, it all comes off and can be done again. Good luck.

Click to expand...

It's only going to be shiny if you never play it. Instruments are meant to be played and dinged why even bother. A shiny lacquer does absolutely nothing for the sound, it's only for aesthetics. Kamaka typically doesn't do filler prior to sanding as their finishes are very porous.

dofthesea said:

It's only going to be shiny if you never play it. Instruments are meant to be played and dinged why even bother. A shiny lacquer does absolutely nothing for the sound, it's only for aesthetics. Kamaka typically doesn't do filler prior to sanding as their finishes are very porous.

Click to expand...

Aloha dofthesea. I take it you don't know the history of this uke. Mark bought it used and it had a plate with an engraving screwed into the soundboard. He had a local luthier patch and refinish the two screw holes after the plate was removed. Guess the finish the luthier used isn't the same texture as the original Kamaka and Mark is trying to make it even. It's not the normal wear and tear that he is trying to remove.

Thank you trinimon. You are spot on. I couldn't have said it better. Where the marring was from the plate the guy I took it to had gotten some of it out but hadn't sanded down far enough to get it all out. Enough was still there that it bothered me and I just couldn't live with the matte finish he had put on it when the rest of it was nice and shiny. I'm not a perfectionist but I do like for my ukes to look good. I'm having some difficulty getting some pics uploaded to photobucket to post on here. I kept getting error messages and don't know why. I'll try again today.
Thank you again for clarifying.

Thanks for clarifying Trinimon.

Just to let you all know I just remembered a guy that lives about 50 miles from me named Brian England. He has a shop called Custom Inlay Inc. I had called him a couple of years ago about a separation I had on my Gibson J-200 that needed repair tho I never got around to taking it to him. He worked for Gibson for years and Gibson still sends things to him for inlay work and other various repairs. I think he mainly does mandolins and banjos tho he told me at the time I called him he could repair my guitar too. I'm hoping he can spray my Kamaka when I call him on Monday. I'll also take my Gibson to him at that time if he can do it and finally get that repair taken care of too. He has a website. I didn't realize it till I googled it called Custom Inlay Inc. Hopefully he can help me.
Thanks for all your help.

The truth is that it's not easy to duplicate the really rough texture yet shiny look of a typical Kamaka finish without starting from bare wood. The lacquer jobs on the lower cost ukes is...well...not up to most luthiers' standards...and is not as easy to blend or duplicate as a really good, pore filled, sanded dead flat before rub out finish. A lot of them look like they aren't rubbed out at all...final coats straight from the gun.

I just refinished my tenor that MGM repaired for me, which was in pieces (that's another story). He did a good job of final sanding for me, but I don't know if he intended that. Either way, it's just my Kamaka, so I just sprayed it. Very happy with the way it ended up, gloss off the gun. Except for the spot repairs, looks like a newer model, even though it's over 30 years old.

Like Rick said, it's not easy to get gloss off the gun without buffing. I think Chuck gets close to this and barely sands for his final.

Oh, I still have McFadden's, through a Sata HVLP. Also, the McFaddens was thinned on the final coats, after 800 between the base coats. I gotta do more finishes like this. . . 2 sessions, one sanding session, and no buffing and I'm done.

I agree with not putting heaps of finish on a piece of timber to turn it into a plastic laminate. It is unfortunate that aesthetics has become number one before build quality and tone. Nothing wrong with a highly embelished glossy ukulele but our our man in Oahu stated it does nothing for the tone and is much more difficult to repair when it is worn. I use only white shellac to seal and finish. No grain filler. the aim is to keep the wood as natural as possible. Your problem is someone elses efforts have forced you to take the action that you have. I agree that you should start from scratch, remove the bridge and see if you can match the gloss with Nitro.
Garry Petrisic.

I spoke with Brian England the owner at Custom Inlay Inc.in Leitchfield Ky.this past week and I'm taking it to him this Tuesday. I told him I think the Kamaka's are sprayed with Nitro and he said Nitro is all he uses. I've decided not to do it myself since I know nothing about it. I trust him since he does most of Gibsons inlay on their mandolins and banjos and has for many years. He is also going to take cake of the problem on my J-200. I'm just happy I've got someone that near to me that can take care of it for me. I'll post some before and after pics when I get it back.

I just got my Kamaka back from Custom Inlay and after some wet sanding by me and $15 worth of buffing by Brian here it is nice and glossy like the rest of it. I'm very happy with it now. Marring from the plaque is gone and the filled holes are barely noticeable.
.

Looks like it could be better than a factory finish...

Funny you should say that because that's exactly what he said. I'm guessing probably due to the sanding I had already done.

Rick Turner said:

Looks like it could be better than a factory finish...

Click to expand...