Friction tuners for 35cm scale length?

Hi,

I'm new to all this uke building sort so I've got a question. Will a friction tuner be able to keep hold of a string on a 35cm scale length?

I've made a 3d model of a uke (pretty much the risa solid) that I'm going to 3d print, but I'm not sure if friction tuners will be able to hold the strings.

It's almost exactly like the risa solid except that it'll be two tuners on both top and bottom. I'm worried that the small scale length will have too much tension in the strings, and that the tuners won't hold them. Does anyone know anything about this or had experience trying to print off a uke?

Thanks,

ps, this is the model if you want a look: http://www.shapeways.com/model/747714/ukulele.html

If it works I'll make the design public

Use Pegheds.

Why would a short scale length (which that is not, by the way...) have too much tension if you use appropriately gauged strings? For a given gauge, for instance, the shorter the scale, the lower the tension. And note that many violinists use real friction pegs with steel strings at much higher tensions than you find with ukes.

Rick Turner said:

Use Pegheds.

Why would a short scale length (which that is not, by the way...) have too much tension if you use appropriately gauged strings? For a given gauge, for instance, the shorter the scale, the lower the tension. And note that many violinists use real friction pegs with steel strings at much higher tensions than you find with ukes.

Click to expand...

:agree:
you could do pegheds or have the posts made. like the plastic uke that was on kickstarter

Grand piano's use friction pegs

Thanks guys, I'll try out pegs then. I've order some friction tuners anyway so I'll post again if they work.

Also for those interested, the price of printing my uke is under £45. Not so bad, I'll probably print another once I got all the bugs out of the prototype.

When you say you'll "print the uke" do you mean the high tech method of printing up the actual thing out of some spray material.
I'm confused.

Frictions work on the 344mm ukes I make, as do violin pegs. Though if you plan to use steel strings, geared would be better because you will want finer scale adjustment.

From the link it looks as if you're printing a neck. If the frets are printed as well don't use steel strings, as they will probably cut those printed frets to shreds in minutes.

Printing is pretty cool, but as a comparator I can make a neck in wood for about $10 + 3 hours work (I'm slow), and it has a rounded profile and tapers from the nut. So printing has a little way to go yet.

That design is defective, by the way, in that it has no spacer (performing the spacing function of the nut) above the zero fret. When played, the outer strings will slip off the edge of the fretboard. So you'll need to add that in (and probably cut a slot in the neck to hold it in place).

To answer you original question, yes you can definitely use (good) friction tuners on a uke with a scale length of 350 mm, and even with 400 or 450 mm. You need to set them up right and keep the screws tight enough so that they don't slip, but that is not a problem at all.

On the question of scale lengths, string gauges and tension... what Rick said :agree: To explain it in other terms, let's look at a guitar (classical, nylon string). The standard scale is 640 mm or thereabouts, tuning of the first four strings is E-B-G-D, standard gauge is about 28. Now a ukulele with a scale length of approx. 360 mm would be comparable to capoing the guitar at the 10th fret - in other words, the open string length from the 10th fret to the saddle is about 360 mm. But the 10th fret is a minor 7th above the unfrettet, uncapoed, open string - so we go from an E on the first string of the uncapoed guitar up to the note of D on the first string of the guitar capoed at the 10th fret. Let's ignore any action the guitar might have and say the string tension remains the same. Now let's compare that to a uke with the same open string length as the guitar capoed at the 10th fret, but on the uke we want the open first string tuned to A, not D - so we have to tune it down a 4th. Obviously that is going to decrease the string tension considerably, and in addition we would use lighter strings on the uke, something like 22 or 24 gauge, so that decreases the tension again... and so on.

Of course, we have to keep in mind that ukes are not guitars and they are not made to have the same tension as a guitar, capoed or uncapoed. So don't take me wrong and think you need to put 28s on your uke or tune it up a fourth (to D on the first open string). That not what I'm saying. Keep it in the tuning it was made for with a string gauge that matches the instrument.

For a simple explanation of the above, consider a tenor uke. The scale length, 17" or there about, is virtually the same as the distance from a classical guitar 5th fret to the saddle. And lo and behold, the pitches are the same as if you capo that classical guitar at the 5th fret. In other words, the top four strings from a classical guitar set are perfect for stringing up a tenor uke with a low G. And that's what I do on my own uke. Sopranos, having a shorter scale, might actually have larger strings in order to bring the strings up to sufficient tension to sound good.

Good point Rick. Higher gauge strings would be the way to go on the shorter scale length of a soprano to maintain the tension... I would be careful, though, as soprano ukes are often braced much lighter and might not stand up to it, depending on the build.

EDIT: I do wonder about your calculation of 17 inches (431.8 mm) from the 5th fret to the saddle. Nope, that would be from the 7th fret to the saddle on a guitar with a scale length of 25.2 inches (640 mm). Distance from the 5th to the saddle would be 18.9 inches (479 mm), more like a baritone scale length.