Bending binding help

Wondering if anyone can share some insight on bending wood bindings.? I'm *trying* to bend some ebony bindings for a concert, and having a heck of a time with it. I've broken a bunch of pieces and am running out of wood. This is after ruining some bloodwood pieces even.

The strips are from Stewmac. The bloodwood had BWB purf on it, but the ebony is plain. The thing is I can't seem to get enough heat into the strips on the bending iron. Can't get enough wood in contact with the iron I'm guessing. Have also tried using a heat gun. That works somewhat but the bending window is short, seems it cools off before I can bend to where I need it. And the tight waist bend... fuggedaboutit. I struggled with some cocobolo last week, but eventually I got it. I'm hoping there's a better way.

Any insight or technique help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[I have found that the binding Stew mac supplies can be a tad too thick. I thinned mine down to about .70 before bending. Also take your time. What method are you trying to bend with? Blanket,pipe or some other method? We need more info to give you a better answer.

Ebony can be difficult to bend, especially the brittle variety.
The stuff from Stew mac is probably thicknessed for guitar work.
Take it down to around .075 or .080"
I bend mine on a hot pipe, and the heat is up pretty high. You can always back off, but I like to feel it go limp.

To hard to guess what you are doing. Explain your entire process from to start to finish.

Sometimes ebony is just a pain in the arse to bend. I've had some that will bend like limp pasta, and other times it won't move at all.

If you want black, then I'd suggest using plastic bindings. Once finish is on you won't be able to tell the difference, and it's one heck of a lot easier to bend around the tightest of curves.

Thanks guys. The ebony binding from Stewmac is .080" . I'm using it at full thickness for the back, but I had thinned the ebony for the top binding to .070" and planned to use thin white purfling as well.

I started bending on my iron - which is a 2.5" dia. round pipe. It does not have the elongated shape, and I suspect I can't get enough contact area to really heat up the binding. Have tried rocking back and forth, and push-pull along a length, and the iron is scorching hot - but can't seem to get the ebony to relax and bend. Have tried both wetting the wood, and just dry. Have also tried a heat gun - and that gets it hot enough to char it, but still not bendy.

I guess trying to fit the tight waist bend of a concert is just asking a lot for that thickness.? I have bent maple, rosewood, cocobolo, and purpleheart bindings on my iron. And while some of it has been a challenge, this ebony is really difficult. And maybe it's just this batch? I did consider using black fiber, but I really wanted the ebony. Might be time for plan B.

Still, I'm wondering if using a strip of spring steel or similar while bending would prevent it from cracking.?

Have you tried soaking the wood for about 10 minutes or so before using the bender?

I know nothing about this... however, have you tried steam bending?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOIJXDZXB3g
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Bending ebony can be difficult but the fact that you are having trouble bending cocobolo and especially bloodwood leads me to believe something is wrong with your technique. I think you are making a case for the electric heat blanket. It's so much easier to bend with than the hot pipe. I make my bindings .08" thick and tape them together to effectively make a sheet of bindings and bend a dozen at a time between SS sheets. Even heat and consistent pressure is the key to bending ebony. I like to get it hotter than usual before starting the bend, rocking back and forth over the biggest pipe you have, maybe 2 1/2". Spray water any time it starts to dry up. I've also had some luck using Super Soft II as a wetting agent. Still, there is some ebony that is just too stubborn to bend especially if it has any curl or run-out in it, (which is hard to detect). When ripping ebony I'll always save the more flexible stuff for bindings and leave the stiffer wood for fret boards and bridges. I think if I were buying bindings, which are expensive, and you plan to be bending for several ukes, I would seriously consider biting the bullet and going electric.
BTW, I personally don't care for plastic bindings but I know that David Hurd (Kawika) was so frustrated bending ebony that he finally gave up and switched to plastic bindings. Gurian also sells a fiber binding; it bends easily (requiring no heat) but is difficult to sand because it's so tough.
Good luck and don't give up.

Well, certainly good to hear I'm not the only one having a hard time Thanks all for the tips, I had no doubt my technique was lacking. And Chuck... I have been putting off a blanket and bender, so maybe time to take the plunge. It's a long, expensive road collecting all the tools to do good work (with repeatable results), but the frustration of not having the right tools isn't much worth it either.

I know there's always more than one way to skin a cat, but when it comes down to being clever vs. being productive... Maybe this thread should turn into "Which blanket and bender should I buy" !

Still, the McGiver in me is wondering about... wrapping a piece of binding in a long wet sponge, wrapping/securing with string, and then microwaving for a minute or two... letting it steam inside a blanket of heat/moisture? Like a corndog.

Jeez, I better order a blanket today.

An expert has given you some advice... Do you wear a hair shirt as well? I abandoned wood bindings years ago....

yes, cashmere actually... extra fine, combed... ... found it at a thrift store... No plastic has yet matched this for comfort, and the durability is excellent. I am sure that it took a whole lot of work to make...

Working with you in your shop Pete, I learned that plastic bindings are very cool, I now have some in my palette, and will be using them. Plastic, though, as cool as it is, is not wood...

As soon as celluloid hit the scene Martin, Gibson, everyone and his dog switched in an instant. The fashion for the return to wood bindings is relatively recent tho it has always been de rigeur in the classical guitar making field... I won't say it

Pete Howlett said:

As soon as celluloid hit the scene Martin, Gibson, everyone and his dog switched in an instant. The fashion for the return to wood bindings is relatively recent tho it has always been de rigeur in the classical guitar making field... I won't say it

Click to expand...

...and before celluloid there was ivory binding, and bridges, but no elephants to sing too.

Full points to all who use wooden bindings and my thanks at not letting plastic near an object of such beauty as is the hand made uke.

Pete Howlett said:

As soon as celluloid hit the scene Martin, Gibson, everyone and his dog switched in an instant. The fashion for the return to wood bindings is relatively recent tho it has always been de rigeur in the classical guitar making field... I won't say it

Click to expand...

I never understood why anyone would want to follow the lead of manufacturers like Martin & Gibson. Can't we do better than that? Maybe as a place to start, but really folks, we're individuals with our own brains and ideas. Aren't we? And I agree, plastic is cool. (As in cold, lifeless, dead, inert... ) It's not for me but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. Pete made good use of some MOT binding a while back. Use anything you want to make your own statement, not because it's what everyone is doing or not doing. We're better than those big robo-builders. We are innovators carving our own paths!

Amen Beau.
Wood is good

Beau Hannam Ukuleles said:

...and before celluloid there was ivory binding, and bridges, but no elephants to sing too.

Full points to all who use wooden bindings and my thanks at not letting plastic near an object of such beauty as is the hand made uke.

Click to expand...

I'm still relatively new to building, and I do want to get a feel for all material options. No doubt I'll settle in on one type or another as my builds progress. But as I go through this journey I want to experience all the building, and sonic pros and cons of new and traditional materials first hand. Until I'm able to spend some time in shop with one of you pros, I'm just learning as I go. And let me take a second to also thank you pros (and part time makers) for the information you share online. Truly, Pete's YouTube videos taught me enough to get off the ground.

RPA_Ukuleles said:

I'm still relatively new to building, and I do want to get a feel for all material options. No doubt I'll settle in on one type or another as my builds progress. But as I go through this journey I want to experience all the building, and sonic pros and cons of new and traditional materials first hand. Until I'm able to spend some time in shop with one of you pros, I'm just learning as I go. And let me take a second to also thank you pros (and part time makers) for the information you share online. Truly, Pete's YouTube videos taught me enough to get off the ground.

Click to expand...

Try stew macs curly maple bindings, it bends like....well......curly maple. Super easy. Fingerboard Side dots are a bit frustrating if you bind your FB's. Plastic dots seem to bleed (for me at least using Assatone) and I cant seem to get a paua dot into curly maple binding to look as good as id like it/needs to be. but if this is your first uke then dont worry bout binding your FB and then there are fretting complications to think about also.

If you are after a darker binding look- rub some brown stain into the curly maple for a koa'ish look.
Method is:
1-Finish uke up to just before spraying/rubbing a finish on.
2-Rub stain into bindings being careful NOT to touch the top or surrounding wood (black purflings he with this as does some carefully applied shellac..
3- let dry, then sand the curly maple bindings with 400 so the "tops" of the curl are lighter/whiter then the troughs of the curl.
4- seal stained bindings with something- shellac, superglue or even wipe on thin finish. Just dont let the stain bleed into the top wood- if you do, welcome to sun bursting 101.

Its pretty easy and will look great. oh- or you could just buy curly koa binding from stewmac. i probably should have mentioned that first...

After all is said and done I have found some ebony binding that just would not bend before breaking to pieces. I got some different stock and no problems.

On my guitars, which are always bound, as compared to my ukes, which sometimes are not, I use wood, as it is considered the premium treatment.
The only plastic that I use is tortoise celluloid, which is hard to replicate in wood.
It is much more pleasant to work with the wood, even though they have to be bent, over plastic.

There are two main varieties of Ebony, Macassar & Gabon, the Macassar is the easier to bend.