Bolt on necks are for "Girly Luthiers"

Timbuck

Timbuck

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Last week while I was suffering with severe back pain, I put together a neck and body on a soprano..My concentration must have been lacking a bit co's when I got round to fitting the bridge today ..I realised that I'd fitted the wrong neck :mad:..and it was out of line with the top of the uke..Not a lot! I could have made the saddle a little lower than normal to make it work..but it was just not right..So I decide to remove the neck and start again with the right one...if this was a bolt on neck then it would have been a dead easy to fix..But it's a dovetail glued well in with Titebond..I don't have steaming set up anymore co's I got rid of it a couple of years back in a clearout.. so I used a method I dream't up last time I had to do this..It works like this.
First remove fretboard with hot scraper heated up on heatgun and be carefull not to gash your hand on the scraper edge (Like I did)
PICT0002-16.jpg

Next drill a 5mm hole into the heel.
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Here is a close up of the hole it go's down to about 7mm from heel end just enough to go thro the male dovetail spline
PICT0006-10.jpg
 
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Next I cut off a short length of 5mm brass rod (aluminium or copper is better) then I got it good and hot with a propane torch
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Then I filled the hole with water and plunged in the hot rod
The result was steam generated within the inside of the joint :D
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I did this 3 times and the glue became a white running mush...soon after with a few waggles and a bit of thumb pressure out it came..Now it's down to mrs Timbuck to rescue the French polish...and I'll see what I can do to put the job right.
PICT0017-7.jpg
 
...and now you have a no-miss fingerboard indexing pin.

In the way-back days I played a lot of 8-ball. It got to where even if I missed an impossible shot, I took solace in recognizing that there was a impossible solution to the impossible shot and I could see it. Even though I didn't make it, at least I saw it.

Looks like that's what happened with this impossible situation. Only you made the shot.
 
Can't help but wonder now how many holes live underneath my fretboard...

Just teasing, Ken.
 
Bolt-on necks are for luthiers who respect their future customers pocket books!

We can reset a neck angle in less than half an hour with no damage whatsoever to finish...
 
In the dimmest days of guitar repair books the same trick was done by working a butter knife into the dovetail, dripping in water, then heating the knife with a torch. Jesus, its been so long that I can't even remember the author's name, though I can picture the cover of his book(s).

Anyone who still uses a dovetail deserves all the grief that comes his way.
 
mr. timms,
thank you for your integrity, innovation and positive inspiration in the little niche of ukulele building.
tk
 
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Funny thing about the Spanish heel and ukuleles, almost all vintage ukes like Nunes, Kumalae, Kamaka and so on are built with the Spanish heel. These are the ukes that are the most problematic when it comes to high action and being almost unplayable. If these makers had simply used a bigger neck block arrangement, maybe they would still be playable and have better intonation. As it is, most had little or minimal neck blocks and when the hide glue gave up, the neck rose and all the trouble began.

The older Martin ukes with a larger neck block and the tappered dovetail (like Timbuck uses) turned out to be a much better system of neck attachment for a uke.
 
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BlackBearUkes said:
Funny thing about the Spanish heel and ukuleles, almost all vintage ukes like Nunes, Kumalae, Kamaka and so on are built with the Spanish heel. These are the ukes that are the most problematic when it comes to high action and being almost unplayable. If these makers had simply used a bigger neck block arrangement, maybe they would still be playable and have better intonation. As it is, most had little or minimal neck blocks and when the hide glue gave up, the neck rose and all the trouble began...
Click to expand...

Duane, let me give you a different take on Spanish Heel construction. I haven't seen as many of the old ukuleles as you have, but the typical Spanish Heel gives a lot more glue area than you get with a dovetail. Hide glue will give way with time (as it should). It would be hard to beleive, however, that the strain of gut strings on a Soprano Ukulele would cause a joint like that to fail. One the main advantages of this traditional construction is that it offers such a stable platform to build around. Almost all Classical Guitars still use it - Flamencos as well, with ultra low action.

We come at the Ukulele from a Cuatro background - the early Ukuleles were built with the same outlook as the Cuatros. Play in the first positions, mainly vigorous strumming, and thus, get the action up off the soundboard.

All modern Cuatros are still built with the Spanish heel, and the majority of them still have that sort of high action you describe on the original Hawaiian Ukuleles (durissimo). Modern Ukulele players have the same sort of reaction you describe when they pick up one of the Cuatros with a traditional neck set: "almost unplayable" - and this is with new instruments - they're built this way on purpose. Nunes, do Espiritu Santo et al were not a bunch of screw-ups.

We love the Spanish Heel - feel it is the most stable and reliable of all, but we set it for modern ukulele action (soave).
 
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southcoastukes said:
Duane, let me give you a different take on Spanish Heel construction. I haven't seen as many of the old ukuleles as you have, but the typical Spanish Heel gives a lot more glue area than you get with a dovetail. Hide glue will give way with time (as it should). It would be hard to beleive, however, that the strain of gut strings on a Soprano Ukulele would cause a joint like that to fail. One the main advantages of this traditional construction is that it offers such a stable platform to build around. Almost all Classical Guitars still use it - Flamencos as well, with ultra low action.

We come at the Ukulele from a Cuatro background - the early Ukuleles were built with the same outlook as the Cuatros. Play in the first positions, mainly vigorous strumming, and thus, get the action up off the soundboard.

All modern Cuatros are still built with the Spanish heel, and the majority of them still have that sort of high action you describe on the original Hawaiian Ukuleles (durissimo). Modern Ukulele players have the same sort of reaction you describe when they pick up one of the Cuatros with a traditional neck set: "almost unplayable" - and this is with new instruments - they're built this way on purpose. Nunes, do Espiritu Santo et al were not a bunch of screw-ups.

We love the Spanish Heel - feel it is the most stable and reliable of all, but we set it for modern ukulele action (soave).
Click to expand...

Dirk, I am well aware of the Spanish heel in classical guitar construction (and I have to say it is not as common as it once was with a lot of modern builders). Those guitars also use the extended foot on the bottom of the headblock to help with long term stability, but I don't ever remember seeing this extended foot on a uke. Most of the vintage ukes that used the Spanish heel construction used a neck block shaped like a V with the smallest portion of the V glued to the back. Others used a smaller straight block, but still had very little glue area on the back. This unfortuantely made the neck to body joint weak and often failed as the uke got older. I personally don't use the Spanish heel for any instrument but understand how it is favored in some circles.
 
Everyone that I know who builds with the Spanish Heel in ukes uses a "neck block" that has at least a block the size of a block you would find in a bolt on or dovetail neck. Why would you go any smaller?
 
Before we all get into an augument over what is what......I have done a survey of what went wrong with this one....I have found something must have moved when I glued on the back co's it's way out no matter what neck fits it..So it's my fault :mad: To fix it would require removing the back piece.. putting it back in the mold with the neck fitted (Spanish heel style) and a new back glued and clamped in postion...I also notice it has developed a sagging belly that I'm not too happy about....But I've learned that when a uke has problems like this, it's best to scrap it before you have a mental breakdown ...So it's going on the fire. :eek: The neck is OK by the way...apart from a small hole that needs plugging :)
 
How we build is totally personal from the moment we become intrigued with how instruments are made. Once we begin, its also an evolutionary process. I'm glad there are still classical guitar makers, but they have always struck me as goofy and useless instruments, despite enduring many sessions with classical and flamenco records plus a couple concerts. I still view the Spanish heel as a failure to evolve, but there is no reason anyone else should care what I think. However, I am coming to enjoy the sound of nylon strings, and I owe it to playing the uke. So I find myself with a nylon-strung guitar in progress, but with a bolt-on neck and pre-1917 Martin X bracing. I blush to admit that I view the guitar as an American icon, and that the Spanish never made a guitar worth playing. I accept it as a failure of the mind on my part, but one that makes me smile. Luth on, folks, however you do it.
 
Hello..
I am a very happy owner of a Rick Turner Compass Rose Koa tenor uke..i have many other nice ukes..my CR only one with a bolt on neck..i plan to keep my uke forever..My CR sounds as good or better than most of the other ukes i have or tried out..and if i do need a neck reset to me>> looks like bolt on neck is much easier to work with..and i am guessing a neck reset is only reason you would remove the neck>>looks like the neck and body were finished seperate from each other so no break in the finish if you remove it..

looks like a hard and messy job(in the pictures included above..) Lol

i am not a luthier but i am the one buying the ukes..only my 2 cents
 
Geez, I hope using a bolt on neck isn't too girly. I'd look awful in a dress :rolleyes:
 
I've tried dovetails,splines and dowels - would never in this life, or the one to come use a Spanish heel. I now bolt my necks on and have spent the day re-jigging for my fireflys so they have bolt on necks too....
 
I teach my courses with the Spanish heel, and it's because it's a very fast way to assemble an instrument. It also teaches something of the history of our craft. However, in what we build here...be they ukes or acoustic guitars...I favor the cantilevered fingerboard and a bolt-on neck. Just different things...

Re. old ukes falling apart, etc... Well, a lot of the quickly built instruments of the past were pretty much slapped together with really funky hot hide glue, and I suspect that with many, the glue was starting to gel by the time clamp pressure was applied. I know that too many had ill-fitted joints with a wish factor...the builders were wishing that HHG would fill gaps...which it is terrible at. Well built Spanish heel HHG assembled instruments should be good for several lifetimes; the main problem being that with guitars and ukes, there is a slow tendency for the entire geometry of the instruments to change enough to raise the action toward unplayable over many years' time.

Don't forget, dovetailed neck joints were a convenience in factory settings at one time...

And bolt on necks go back at least into the 1820s...

So what is traditional?
 
Well, at least you didn't drill through the neck while drilling for a bolt-on neck! ;P Just a side thought...can you put a strap button right in the middle of the curve of the heel?
 
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