What is interfering and what is being honest?

Status
Not open for further replies.

1geo

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
65
Reaction score
0
This site needs a serious discussion on what constitutes interfering with a sale in the Market Place and what is honesty. For the most part, the listings in the Market Place are truely good buys for anyone looking to buy a quality ukulele. But every once in a while, someone puts a price on their uku that is higher then retail. On two occassions in the last week I have run across such listings. On the first one a senior site member commented on the high price and the seller immediately reduce the price. On the second occassion I commented that the uku could be bought for retail lower then the seller's asking price. My post was followed by several private messages admonishing me for telling the true about the value of the uku. Both comments were from senior site members who accused me of "bad form" and interfering with a sale. So, the question is, if you know that a price on an item is above the retail cost is it fair to bring that to ALL buyers attention or is that interfering with a sale?
 
Personally, I'd say we don't need forum cops. It's appropriate to mention to the seller in a PM that the item is available cheaper elsewhere (they might well have paid full price for the uke and not be aware that it is avaiable for discount elsewhere) but I wouldn't do that publicly in any case.

Also, keep in mind that often items being sold in the marketplace may have been purchased from a full-service vendor that has set them up and so on - and typically that means the original buyer paid more than the rock bottom price that one might find the item for on Amazon or what have you.

I would say no one should interfere with a sale by publicly posting doubts unless there is an obvious case of fraud, such as pictures that you know are fraudulent, or what have you. Other than that, let the buyer beware and do their own diligence - we don't need anyone to police the marketplace looking to "protect the ignorant from themselves."

The marketplace has worked very well for years now without any self-appointed police interfering. I have both bought and sold and been satisfied in all cases.

And - to be completely blunt about it - we certainly don't need a newcomer who has been part of the community for a few weeks, and whose "signal to noise" ratio has been fairly poor in that they don't even know the players yet but are interjecting themselves publicly into other people's sales, to come along and tell us what "serious discussions are needed" to have regarding what has been, until now, a pretty satisfactory marketplace. :)

Finally, as a newcomer to the forum, if one receives a number of PMs from long-time members about a subject one might want to consider those PMs carefully before attempting to reorganize how the community works around one's preconceived notions.


John
 
Last edited:
Since you ask, I thought it was uncool of you to post publicly.
I've had people post incorrect price info in my sales threads and off-topic comments. It just makes things more difficult to sell.
Unless you see fraud, butt-out.
 
Dear John, first thanks for releasing this post, it will be interesting to see how others feel about the subject. I may be new to the site but I am not new to buying and selling string instruments. As a buyer, a private message to a seller that their item is over priced does me no good. It is only when this information is PUBLIC that I and others know the problem with the pricing. If we wish to negotiate a lower price then the private message is the place to go. One of the reasons I prefer to buy off of sites like Ukulele Underground is because of the open and free flowing comments like mine. If you think I am the only one making such comments then you should read the Market Place posts more carefully. There are a number of senior members making the same comments. Maybe they are "attempting to reorganize how the community works," I wish them well.
 
The problem with bringing these things up publicly is that if you're not the seller, you just don't know. Perhaps there's a reason for the higher-than-retail price--perhaps the owner made modifications, or is counting shipping in the price, or bought the ukulele with certain add-ons, or is offering add-ons with the uke. If you're concerned, the safest bet is to PM the seller and ask, but to sabotage an intended sale with a possibly uninformed opinion is to stir up bad feelings for sure.
 
That's exactly right! Fact is my buyer ended up paying well less than the asking price(the retail price 1Geo was so upset about), got a shop set up with fret work and a fret polish, saddle and nut work, a nice new ukulele stand, included free overseas shipping, plus I bought him lunch! Your half cocked chicken little the sky is falling rant when you had no clue regarding the negotiated deal was pretty poorly thought out IMHO.....If you have a question just ask in a PM, its not that hard. And your personal attack on me calling me dishonest....well, I'll chalk that up to something else....
 
To be honest, at NO time you should interfere with a persons sale...if you have questions, please personal message him/ her...I feel that is rude and inappropiate and NOT good forum etiquette to be sabotaging a persons sale....I was furious with those comments made...If you were selling something and I was low balling you pubically, would you like that...be serious man...
Not always is the best price online is the best uke...If you buy from a reputable dealer he may charge more but you get a free set up....which is cheaper in the long run....or you may be buying
a lesser quality uke that has intonation issues etc... buying from big box dealers may not be the way to go and I admit I do not like using their prices as leverage to get a good deal here...
Please do not rock the boat...Our marketplace has been very successful here and I consider our deals appropiate...if you do not like the price, move on and say nothing...easy as that
this is our forum and we don't need no bullying around here from anyone new or otherwise....sorry if I was blunt...and I hope it helped thank you for asking and no hard feelings....
 
Last edited:
Amen, Stan! The Marketplace is a bit Wild West I've noticed, and the OP here isn't the only one. Maybe there needs to be a rule that only sales-related replies are allowed there. Like everyone else has said, if you feel someone is going to get swindled, just PM. And not one of those aggressive types, but just get the entire story first. If you still have alam bells, talk to a mod, but don't go assuming things. It's not your job, you're not responsible for it.
 
I have to say I don't entirely agree with the majority opinion here.

If someone is asking above retail for apparently second hand goods, it's perfectly reasonable to point out that you can obtain the same goods new elsewhere for less. It is then up to the seller to explain why they are asking the price they are or to say they are open to offers, whatever.

What is out of order is to insinuate in any way that the seller is being dishonest.

Whatever you believe and wherever you express it, publicly or privately you should simply confine yourself to the facts e.g. "You can get x new from y for zz." Anything else and you potentially lay yourself open to serious trouble.
 
I have to say I don't entirely agree with the majority opinion here.

If someone is asking above retail for apparently second hand goods, it's perfectly reasonable to point out that you can obtain the same goods new elsewhere for less. It is then up to the seller to explain why they are asking the price they are or to say they are open to offers, whatever.

What is out of order is to insinuate in any way that the seller is being dishonest.

Whatever you believe and wherever you express it, publicly or privately you should simply confine yourself to the facts e.g. "You can get x new from y for zz." Anything else and you potentially lay yourself open to serious trouble.

But why discuss price publicly (or even privately really) if you are not intending to buy it :confused:
 
But why discuss price publicly (or even privately really) if you are not intending to buy it :confused:

I agree...when I buy one I negotiate with the seller through a PM..ie: PM sent, and when I sell one I negotiate with the buyer through PM's. I dont stick my nose into other peoples business on a public forum...If I have no interest in the sale I move on, esp. as I have no idea as to what kind of deal is being made through PM's...quite frankly it's none of my business...the only exception I can think of, like John suggested, is blatent fraud like a stolen Uke etc....
 
I used to do a lot of buying and selling on a kite forum - high dollar, serious stunt kites. Dual and quad line, power kites, parafoils, and other assorted wind toys. That forum had a culture of full disclosure and it was great. If any kite went up on the forum that was priced above retail without explanation, questions were asked, in public posts, just about immediately. This often lead to spirited discussions about the value of the item, but it didn't seem to hamper sales too much.

It was a great place to do business, and no one got upset when a price was questioned. There was also a lot of vouching for previous sales that served as a word-of-mouth feedback system that made sure that people who made sketchy deals found it hard to continue selling there. It was a great community, and I bought and sold thousands of dollars worth of gear there. I think the openness benefitted everyone except the guy who was trying to make a quick buck at the expense of the uninformed - and screw that guy anyway!
 
Last edited:
Hmmm but why would you want to start flames, ........with un necessary comments...we all probally know better.... that's why we are one of the best forums around and that's how we operate here...... you want some attention.... LOL
 
Last edited:
As someone who has bought and sold ukuleles in the Marketplace, I'm finding this to be an interesting discussion. Hypothetical: You see an ukulele in the marketplace and you think it's overpriced. You don't want to question the price publicly, so you PM the seller, who says some things that disturb you. I don't know, maybe he says "Yes, you can buy this ukulele for less online somewhere, but I'm charging an additional $50 because I hope to sell it to someone who doesn't know it's less expensive elsewhere," or something like that. Would you feel an obligation to warn potential buyers of this, or would you let the market dictate the price of the uke (i.e., if someone's willing to pay that for this ukulele, that's want it's worth)? Just curious.
 
As someone who has bought and sold ukuleles in the Marketplace, I'm finding this to be an interesting discussion. Hypothetical: You see an ukulele in the marketplace and you think it's overpriced. You don't want to question the price publicly, so you PM the seller, who says some things that disturb you. I don't know, maybe he says "Yes, you can buy this ukulele for less online somewhere, but I'm charging an additional $50 because I hope to sell it to someone who doesn't know it's less expensive elsewhere," or something like that. Would you feel an obligation to warn potential buyers of this, or would you let the market dictate the price of the uke (i.e., if someone's willing to pay that for this ukulele, that's want it's worth)? Just curious.

This is exactly why public discussion is so helpful. In the hypothetical situation above the seller is being purposely deceptive - letting that happen does the buyer, the forum, and the uke community a disservice. I would hope that ANY sale made here would stand up to public scrutiny, and I wouldn't want to do business any other way.

I should add that on the kite forum I mentioned, it worked the other way, too. A couple times I saw rare, collectible kites go up on the forum for next-to-nothing prices and members asked what the deal was. Upon finding out that the person selling had no idea what they had on their hands, they were advised to pull the item, do some research, and then repost the sale. It worked well for that forum because the motive of that marketplace was not profit - it was to move items around to people who would use them and enjoy them more than the current owners.
 
Last edited:
The buyer needs to be aware of what they're buying. It's easy to do a quick Google or eBay search to see what the going rate is for whatever it is you're buying. If the price is too high, the seller will eventually lower it.

I wouldn't go up to a stranger in a grocery store and tell them the apples in their cart are $2 cheaper at another store. And if I was buying apples I'd look at the circulars to see if they were on sale.
 
As someone who has bought and sold ukuleles in the Marketplace, I'm finding this to be an interesting discussion. Hypothetical: You see an ukulele in the marketplace and you think it's overpriced. You don't want to question the price publicly, so you PM the seller, who says some things that disturb you. I don't know, maybe he says "Yes, you can buy this ukulele for less online somewhere, but I'm charging an additional $50 because I hope to sell it to someone who doesn't know it's less expensive elsewhere," or something like that. Would you feel an obligation to warn potential buyers of this, or would you let the market dictate the price of the uke (i.e., if someone's willing to pay that for this ukulele, that's want it's worth)? Just curious.

In that case, I would say something. I have bought, sold, and traded many times on the marketplace...and only had 1 truly negative experience. If I saw that person post another uke for sale, I would make a warning post. Nothing flaming, but a simple 'Please exercise caution when buying used instruments online' or something like that, then I'd PM a mod with the back story and let them decide what to do.
 
Who really knows how much the seller paid for it.....and going on that assumption just because the market price maybe lower, that he/she may be deceptive.... purely speculation on your part I'd say ...wouldn't that be rude to interfere in his/her sales......
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom