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View Full Version : Pono -MBD - Mahogany Baritone Deluxe with Oahu Hard Case - $425



1geo
11-23-2012, 09:39 AM
JUST IN TIME FOR CHRISTMAS! The Baritone is just to large for me. This MBD with Oahu hard case costs $687 on “The Ukulele Site” I’m asking $425 plus actual shippingcosts. If you’re interested, email meyour zip and I’ll give you a quote on shipping. My email is n3epj@yahoo.com
4567045671456724567345674

ukegirl
11-23-2012, 12:28 PM
Not be negative but they only cost $608, not $687 like you say, new with the case on that website...just being honest...
http://www.theukulelesite.com/pono-mbd-mahogany-baritone-deluxe.html

ukegirl
11-23-2012, 12:39 PM
Oh, and you are not following the marketplace rules....your ad is missing the required shot of the Uke along with your name and date etc...

1geo
11-23-2012, 12:44 PM
Thanks for the reply. The ukulele costs $608 WITHOUT THE CASE. The web site mentioned sells the case for $79; simple math equals $687. I really do appreciate the comment, it gives me the opportunity to give the details of the costs publicly. THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD WORK, NOT HIDDEN IN PRIVATE MESSAGES so thanks again.

ukegirl
11-23-2012, 12:54 PM
Uke is only $529 on the site...add the case,it's $608 not $687...happy to help, I enjoy this new format!Thanks for introducing it!

1geo
11-23-2012, 01:01 PM
I purchasedthis uku from a private party to see if I would like to play the baritone. It turned out to be to big for me; myfavorite is the tenor. There is onedetain I am uncertain about. If you lookclosely at the label there is stamped the number 2. The only thing I can think that means is itsa second. I have carefully examined itand I cannot find one imperfection, no scratches, no dings, no dents, noblemishes, no nothing; its in mint condition and so is the case. But just to be on the safe side if anyonepurchases this instrument I will give them a 48 hour examination period. If they return it in the condition received Iwill give them a full refund minus shipping.

1geo
11-23-2012, 01:12 PM
Uke is only $529 on the site...add the case,it's $608 not $687...happy to help, I enjoy this new format!Thanks for introducing it!
We are bothwrong, I just checked the site again and they just reduced the price to $469.Add the case at $79 and you come up with $548. That puts my price $123 underretail. Thanks ukegirl its through this type of open discussion that we cancome to the truth and that's what we are after....isn't it?

Lideruke
11-23-2012, 01:34 PM
The "2" does indeed denote blemished/b-stock. From my experience, that's pretty meaningless, as it's often just an aesthetic issue.

Patrick Madsen
11-23-2012, 02:07 PM
Whoever ends up with it will have a great instrument. I agree, it's tough to find the imperfections on a Pono 2nd. Shows their quality standards.

I love playing my bari. The deep low bluesy jazz chord sound just is a pleasure to hear.... and play.

1geo
11-23-2012, 02:36 PM
I purchasedthis uku from a private party to see if I would like to play the baritone. It turned out to be to big for me; myfavorite is the tenor. There is onedetain I am uncertain about. If you lookclosely at the label there is stamped the number 2. The only thing I can think that means is itsa second. I have carefully examined itand I cannot find one imperfection, no scratches, no dings, no dents, noblemishes, no nothing; its in mint condition and so is the case. But just to be on the safe side if anyonepurchases this instrument I will give them a 48 hour examination period. If they return it in the condition received Iwill give them a full refund minus shipping.

For Clarity
I do notwant to leave the impression that I purchased this uku off of UU, I didnot. As stated, I purchased it from aprivate party which happens to be local. I normally don’t ask the seller the origin of the instrument. I only ask if there is a problem and in thiscase there was none. So I cannot say who the original seller was.

mds725
11-23-2012, 02:53 PM
Thanks to the OP for all the disclosures. As for your baritone being a blemished, I wouldn't let that get in the way of buying a Pono ukulele. I have a "blemished" mahogany 6-string tenor that I bought from Pono on eBay, and I still can't find what might have been wrong with it.

I do have a question, though. (I should disclose here that I myself do not want to buy this ukulele, although I recommend it as an instrument because I have the same model and I love it.) The blemished Pono mahogany 6-string I bought was at a significantly lower price than an unblemished brand new mahogany 6-string (same model) from HMS/ukulelesite would have asked. You mentioned that you bought this baritone Pono from a private party who, if the ukulele was sold to him by Pono as a blemished ukulele, probably paid much less than retail. So when you compare the price you're asking for your apparently blemished ukulele to a brand new unblemished ukulele on the HMS website, I don't find that to be particularly informative. Would you be willing to disclose how the private party who sold the ukulele to you represented it to you, and if he/she told you it was some sort of factory second (Pono also sells manufacturer-refurbished ukuleles at its eBay site), how much you paid for it? Since the ukulele was the subject of a prior transaction that established it's marketplace value, telling potential buyers what they could expect to payu if they bought the same model new doesn't say as much about the value of THIS ukulele as what its value was in an earlier transaction. In fact, many people selling ukuleles here disclose what they paid for the ukulele they're trying to sell. Thanks!

missameeames
11-23-2012, 03:13 PM
Thanks to the OP for all the disclosures. As for your baritone being a blemished, I wouldn't let that get in the way of buying a Pono ukulele. I have a "blemished" mahogany 6-string tenor that I bought from Pono on eBay, and I still can't find what might have been wrong with it.

I do have a question, though. (I should disclose here that I myself do not want to buy this ukulele, although I recommend it as an instrument because I have the same model and I love it.) The blemished Pono mahogany 6-string I bought was at a significantly lower price than an unblemished brand new mahogany 6-string (same model) from HMS/ukulelesite would have asked. You mentioned that you bought this baritone Pono from a private party who, if the ukulele was sold to him by Pono as a blemished ukulele, probably paid much less than retail. So when you compare the price you're asking for your apparently blemished ukulele to a brand new unblemished ukulele on the HMS website, I don't find that to be particularly informative. Would you be willing to disclose how the private party who sold the ukulele to you represented it to you, and if he/she told you it was some sort of factory second (Pono also sells manufacturer-refurbished ukuleles at its eBay site), how much you paid for it? Since the ukulele was the subject of a prior transaction that established it's marketplace value, telling potential buyers what they could expect to payu if they bought the same model new doesn't say as much about the value of THIS ukulele as what its value was in an earlier transaction. In fact, many people selling ukuleles here disclose what they paid for the ukulele they're trying to sell. Thanks!

You may find your answer looking at the ebay feedback for koolau. A Pono MBD with hardshell case sold on November 1 for $274.00 + $35.00 shipping to someone with the same eBay ID.

Dan Uke
11-23-2012, 03:31 PM
The key is that Opahcat is not selling one at that price right now.

I recall in the past several months, there was a Collings UT-1 sold for $550 or so and one sold recently with LR Baggs 5.0 for $700+. I bet if they listed it for $100 more than what they purchased it for, it would be sold immediately!

Supply and Demand Curve and Arbitrage!! The marketplace will dictate what the selling price will be...let it run its course

1geo
11-23-2012, 04:06 PM
We are bothwrong, I just checked the site again and they just reduced the price to $469.Add the case at $79 and you come up with $548. That puts my price $123 underretail. Thanks ukegirl its through this type of open discussion that we cancome to the truth and that's what we are after....isn't it?


It has come to my attention information on prices of Pono Seconds that Istrongly feel should be made public so potential buyer are aware of ALL oftheir options. I was informed via the PM system that Pono seconds have beensold for as little as $349. If you can find a Pono Baritone Deluxe for $349 youwould be foolish to buy mine at $425 and my advice to you would be BUY IT! Imean this sincerely. People today work hard for their money and need to getvalue for their dollar. You should not have to over pay for anything. Sales onUU in the final analysis HAVE to be win-win. If they are not then the saleshould never happen. My Baritone Pono offers a significant value at the asking price of $425 and therefore is still for sale if anyone isinterested. Geo.

1geo
11-23-2012, 04:33 PM
You may find your answer looking at the ebay feedback for koolau. A Pono MBD with hardshell case sold on November 1 for $274.00 + $35.00 shipping to someone with the same eBay ID.

If you look at my eBay rating its well over 1000. I have bought many ukus on eBay and currently have about 18 including several several Ponos Baritones. The one up for sale was not bought off of eBay. I do not disclose my buyer or sellers. Nor do I publish the price I pay for an instrument. I will say it is my policy to sell for more than I buy; that is what the free enterprise system is all about, i.e., I believe in making a profit. If you believe differently I will not agree with you but I will defend your right to sell at a loss. Please let me know when you have something for sale.

1geo
11-23-2012, 04:56 PM
Thanks to the OP for all the disclosures. As for your baritone being a blemished, I wouldn't let that get in the way of buying a Pono ukulele. I have a "blemished" mahogany 6-string tenor that I bought from Pono on eBay, and I still can't find what might have been wrong with it.

I do have a question, though. (I should disclose here that I myself do not want to buy this ukulele, although I recommend it as an instrument because I have the same model and I love it.) The blemished Pono mahogany 6-string I bought was at a significantly lower price than an unblemished brand new mahogany 6-string (same model) from HMS/ukulelesite would have asked. You mentioned that you bought this baritone Pono from a private party who, if the ukulele was sold to him by Pono as a blemished ukulele, probably paid much less than retail. So when you compare the price you're asking for your apparently blemished ukulele to a brand new unblemished ukulele on the HMS website, I don't find that to be particularly informative. Would you be willing to disclose how the private party who sold the ukulele to you represented it to you, and if he/she told you it was some sort of factory second (Pono also sells manufacturer-refurbished ukuleles at its eBay site), how much you paid for it? Since the ukulele was the subject of a prior transaction that established it's marketplace value, telling potential buyers what they could expect to payu if they bought the same model new doesn't say as much about the value of THIS ukulele as what its value was in an earlier transaction. In fact, many people selling ukuleles here disclose what they paid for the ukulele they're trying to sell. Thanks!

Hi Mds735, I believe I just answered your question in another post but will repeat it here. It is my policy not to disclose my buyers or sellers nor do I publish the price I paid for an instrument. I will say that I sell for more then I buy for. I believe in making a profit. What others do on UU is of course their privilage; what I do I have clearly stated. Simply put, if you can buy a Pono like the one I have for sale at a cheaper price you would be foolish to pay me more and my advice would be to buy it.

ukegirl
11-23-2012, 05:03 PM
If you look at my eBay rating its well over 1000. I have bought many ukus on eBay and currently have about 18 including several several Ponos Baritones. The one up for sale was not bought off of eBay. I do not disclose my buyer or sellers. Nor do I publish the price I pay for an instrument. I will say it is my policy to sell for more than I buy; that is what the free enterprise system is all about, i.e., I believe in making a profit. If you believe differently I will not agree with you but I will defend your right to sell at a loss. Please let me know when you have something for sale.

Seriously...after all the crap you gave me over $2!!! ROTFLMFAO!!!

1geo
11-23-2012, 05:09 PM
Seriously...after all the crap you gave me over $2!!! ROTFLMFAO!!!

Now, now, lets keep it clean.

mds725
11-23-2012, 08:32 PM
Hi Mds735, I believe I just answered your question in another post but will repeat it here. It is my policy not to disclose my buyers or sellers nor do I publish the price I paid for an instrument. I will say that I sell for more then I buy for. I believe in making a profit. What others do on UU is of course their privilage; what I do I have clearly stated. Simply put, if you can buy a Pono like the one I have for sale at a cheaper price you would be foolish to pay me more and my advice would be to buy it.

By and large, I sat out of the thread you started about people asking questions of sellers posting in the UU marketplace. i thought it was an interesting dicussion that was needed and produced some very interesting posts and viewpoints. While I respect your policies about not making certain disclosures, I find them to be inconsistent with some of the things you've said in that thread and elsewhere about the importance of buyers knowing as much as possible and the value of people, whatever their interest in the thing being sold, asking important questions. I don't need to know the name of the person you bought your ukulele from, but -- and I guess this is your target audience of potential buyers -- unless I needed a Pono MBD mahogany deluxe baritone ukulele immediately, I'd have no reason not to wait for one that was being sold at a price closer to what you might have paid for yours. Knowing that ukuleles like the one you are selling are occasionally sold by the manufacturer (without the possible damage caused by a middleman owner or two) for less than you're asking for yours, I'd just wait. I simply don't see how having such an ukulele pass through additional hands adds value to it. I agree that the market sets the value and if someone buys your ukulele for $425 then that's the value of that ukulele, whatever you paid for it or whatever it was originally sold for by the manufacturer. But you have to admit that there's a boatload of irony in this thread given your somewhat strident position elsewhere about the importance of full disclosure and the importance to you of questions of UU Marketplace sellers that prompt those disclosures.

Good luck with your sale. Pono mahogany baritones are wonderful instruments.

coolkayaker1
11-23-2012, 09:33 PM
The key is that Opahcat is not selling one at that price right now.

I recall in the past several months, there was a Collings UT-1 sold for $550 or so and one sold recently with LR Baggs 5.0 for $700+. I bet if they listed it for $100 more than what they purchased it for, it would be sold immediately!

Supply and Demand Curve and Arbitrage!! The marketplace will dictate what the selling price will be...let it run its course

As usual, I agree with Daniel. You need not mention prices that you paid nor prices for which it's available elsewhere. Any buyer will do their own due diligence. It is, as stated by Daniel, supply and demand.

That said, a photo with the date and UU marketplace and your name on it--which is suggested by UU Marketplace rules, and not required---might help your sale to show that you have the instrument in your possession, especially as a new member of UU Forums. That is a suggestion only.

I have many Ponos, and adore them. They are lovely sounding instruments, I agree with mds7==.

PS As nongdam knows, that was me that got the UT-1 Collings with Baggs 5.0 for just over 700 clams. Early Christmas! Much better ukulele than I was expecting. Never sell. lol

1geo
11-24-2012, 01:18 AM
....... I agree that the market sets the value and if someone buys your ukulele for $425 then that's the value of that ukulele, whatever you paid for it or whatever it was originally sold for by the manufacturer. But you have to admit that there's a boatload of irony in this thread given your somewhat strident position elsewhere about the importance of full disclosure and the importance to you of questions of UU Marketplace sellers that prompt those disclosures.

Good luck with your sale. Pono mahogany baritones are wonderful instruments.

HiMDS725, I read your last post with great interest. It was thoughtful and wellwritten and with a few exceptions I fully agree with you. The first exceptionis your use of the word "need" I would change that to"want". If you don't want a ukulele right now you should, as yousuggested, wait until one comes up for sale at a price you are willing to pay.That's common sense and I agree with it. On the other hand, if you want a PonoMBD ukulele right now you have two options, one buy one retail or two buy mine at $123below retail. Do not discount buying retail, it has a lot of advantages. Forexample, if you buy from a Pono dealer you get a lifetime warrantee with yourpurchase and excellent customer support. That is missing in a private sale andcan have great value so consider full retail when you buy. The other exceptionI had with your post was next to the last sentence which I quoted above. In myoriginal question I did not use the words "full disclosure" I usedthe words, "what is honesty" To me being honest in your listing meansyou are willing and have a duty to disclose if a ukulele can be purchasedretail at the same or lower price. As stated above, purchasing retail has greatadvantages and always should be considered when buying. I think what thisdiscussion is boiling down to is there are two schools of thought on what theUU Marketplace should be. One school believes that the marketplace should notbe used for "for profit" sales. In a pm I received this comment,"You've admitted to be deliberately selling for more than what you paidfor it - very unusual for this marketplace. Having sold close to 100instruments in my lifetime I would never consider doing such a thing as amatter of basic morality but I don't judge you for it." Obviously thisindividual feels that selling in the Marketplace for profit is immoral. Theother school of thought is that the Marketplace is what it says it is, a Marketplaceand that supply and demand and your willingness to pay will determine the valueof an item. In short, the price is the determining factor not if the seller ismaking a profit. These are philosophical views that will probably never bereconciled. I still have a mint Pono MBD for sale - anyone interested?

didgeridoo2
11-24-2012, 05:23 AM
I was one of the folks who sent you a pm to let you know that these Pono MBD ukes were for sale at a much lower price. I bought one in October and I can't find the blemish either. It's a great uke and anyone purchasing yours will get good value at your price listed. The reason I contacted you was to point out that most buyers here are savvy enough to know that these seconds aren't that rare. And also just in case you weren't aware since you claim you purchased from a private party, and maybe they didn't disclose that you had a refurbished uke. I agree that the price that something sells for sets the true value of any item sold and you are right about your stance here. I do believe that mentioning you have a refurbished uke for sale is pretty important, and thanks for eventually disclosing that. And I'm sorry for posting here because I was lucky enough to grab one of these ukes and don't want to buy yours, but you mentioned my pm and I thought I'd own up to my trying to be helpful in a more private way.

1geo
11-24-2012, 08:13 AM
I was one of the folks who sent you a pm to let you know that these Pono MBD ukes were for sale at a much lower price. I bought one in October and I can't find the blemish either. It's a great uke and anyone purchasing yours will get good value at your price listed. The reason I contacted you was to point out that most buyers here are savvy enough to know that these seconds aren't that rare. And also just in case you weren't aware since you claim you purchased from a private party, and maybe they didn't disclose that you had a refurbished uke. I agree that the price that something sells for sets the true value of any item sold and you are right about your stance here. I do believe that mentioning you have a refurbished uke for sale is pretty important, and thanks for eventually disclosing that. And I'm sorry for posting here because I was lucky enough to grab one of these ukes and don't want to buy yours, but you mentioned my pm and I thought I'd own up to my trying to be helpful in a more private way.
Thanks for the comment, the only issue I take with your post is your use of the word "eventually". First of all I did buy this uku from a private party and secondly I did not know it was a second. Thirdly, I raised the question when viewing the photos I had put on the UU Marketplace and saw the "2" printed on the label. That occured very shortly after I listed the Pono and I immediately raised the question which was confirmed by other members. So I believe that "eventually" is a poor choice of words. As I have explain before, I have over a 1000 rating with eBay the majority of which is buying not selling. I currently have 18 ukuleles, make that 19, I just bought a anuenue papa I this morning off of a local party. I have more than 1 pono baritone I also have a pono tenor with an electric pickup that I am going to put up next. Its not a second, its a refurbished Pono tenor that has some damage repair which will go up at a good price but NOT at a price less then I paid for it. So if someone is looking for a pono tenor that looks and play great, stand by. One thing I am doing that is very interesting is buying unfinished koa ukuleles from asia and refinishing them myself. I have a life time worth of experience in wood working that I can apply to this task. When I finish one I will post picture and give everyone another opportunity to vent. Just kidding, I post the pictures to show the finished product. I can invision selling solid wood koa tenors for around $150.

1geo
11-24-2012, 09:48 AM
For all those who are following this projected saga I just checked the price of a Pono MBD on The Ukulele Site and gone is their special of $469, it now is $529 WITHOUT THE CASE. The Oahu Hard Case is an additional $79 for a total of $608. I will reduce my price to $408 + shipping at actual cost. By price I am $200 below retail. Anyone interested? I am so confident that the buyer will love this Pono that I am giving the buyer a 48 inspection period.

coolkayaker1
11-24-2012, 03:50 PM
Thanks for the comment, the only issue I take with your post is your use of the word "eventually". So I believe that "eventually" is a poor choice of words.

I think "eventually", as used by didgeridoo, is not only appropriate, it's ideal.

1geo
11-24-2012, 06:25 PM
The original post was at 3:39 pm on 11/23. I raised the quesition about the 2 on the label at 7:01 pm 11/23; three hours and twenty two minutes later. That is your "ideal" "eventually". Its a good thing I saw it when I did, I can imagine what these posts would be like had I not picked it up until 8 pm.

Dan Uke
11-24-2012, 07:20 PM
The original post was at 3:39 pm on 11/23. I raised the quesition about the 2 on the label at 7:01 pm 11/23; three hours and twenty two minutes later. That is your "ideal" "eventually". Its a good thing I saw it when I did, I can imagine what these posts would be like had I not picked it up until 8 pm.

Geo,

I tried to support you but getting a little annoyed now. I am not sure why you make it sound like you did not try to mislead UU. I'm sure you'll reply to my post as well...

Now that it's been clearly identified that you bought this on ebay, your purchase from Opahcat clearly stating that its a Manufactured Second. Are you proud stating that you told everyone 4 hours after you posted vs later? Did your conscience get to you? So if you didn't see the "2", does that means you wouldn't have said anything????

Just to let you know, before you posted on UU about your sale, I had already emailed HMS (Thurs) and Pono directly (Fri. morn) about purchasing a Pono second w/ Case and guess what, Pono had the MBD and they would sell it cheaper than what you are requesting!! I get it directly from the factory and they said they would set it up and send it to me. Best thing is it hasn't been played by a "private" party.

I told them I would think about is as I am still debating getting the Pono Spruce / Hog Blem one on HMS as it has cutaway, slotted head, and they would honor the Pono warranty. If someone wants to purchase the MBD, please call Pono directly as they might have more or get the one that I asked about since I didn't purchase it and its CHEAPER. Since everyone believes in open communication, there you go!

Sheesh...I better go to somewhere where they really practice discernment before writing, heading off ot Luthier's Lounge!!

Sorry for the rant...

thiam
11-24-2012, 10:31 PM
Geo,

I tried to support you but getting a little annoyed now. I am not sure why you make it sound like you did not try to mislead UU. I'm sure you'll reply to my post as well...

Now that it's been clearly identified that you bought this on ebay, your purchase from Opahcat clearly stating that its a Manufactured Second. Are you proud stating that you told everyone 4 hours after you posted vs later? Did your conscience get to you? So if you didn't see the "2", does that means you wouldn't have said anything????

Just to let you know, before you posted on UU about your sale, I had already emailed HMS (Thurs) and Pono directly (Fri. morn) about purchasing a Pono second w/ Case and guess what, Pono had the MBD and they would sell it cheaper than what you are requesting!! I get it directly from the factory and they said they would set it up and send it to me. Best thing is it hasn't been played by a "private" party.

I told them I would think about is as I am still debating getting the Pono Spruce / Hog Blem one on HMS as it has cutaway, slotted head, and they would honor the Pono warranty. If someone wants to purchase the MBD, please call Pono directly as they might have more or get the one that I asked about since I didn't purchase it and its CHEAPER. Since everyone believes in open communication, there you go!

Sheesh...I better go to somewhere where they really practice discernment before writing, heading off ot Luthier's Lounge!!

Sorry for the rant...

Very very helpful. Thank you Nongdam. As a buyer of at least 2 ukes from UU in the past 6 months, this forum is well participated by most (if not all) well wishers for prospective UU members/buyers.

1geo
11-25-2012, 12:39 AM
Geo,

I tried to support you but getting a little annoyed now. I am not sure why you make it sound like you did not try to mislead UU. I'm sure you'll reply to my post as well...

Now that it's been clearly identified that you bought this on ebay, your purchase from Opahcat clearly stating that its a Manufactured Second. Are you proud stating that you told everyone 4 hours after you posted vs later? Did your conscience get to you? So if you didn't see the "2", does that means you wouldn't have said anything????

Just to let you know, before you posted on UU about your sale, I had already emailed HMS (Thurs) and Pono directly (Fri. morn) about purchasing a Pono second w/ Case and guess what, Pono had the MBD and they would sell it cheaper than what you are requesting!! I get it directly from the factory and they said they would set it up and send it to me. Best thing is it hasn't been played by a "private" party.

I told them I would think about is as I am still debating getting the Pono Spruce / Hog Blem one on HMS as it has cutaway, slotted head, and they would honor the Pono warranty. If someone wants to purchase the MBD, please call Pono directly as they might have more or get the one that I asked about since I didn't purchase it and its CHEAPER. Since everyone believes in open communication, there you go!

Sheesh...I better go to somewhere where they really practice discernment before writing, heading off ot Luthier's Lounge!!

Sorry for the rant...

nongdamThank you for your post. You started out with the statement, “I’m sure you’ll reply to my post aswell.” Of that you can be certain. First the obvious, you do not believeme. There is nothing I can do aboutthat. I gave you the facts as I know them and that is that. You said, “I tried to support you….” Let me make it clear to all, I am not lookingfor support. The objective of thisdiscussion is to determine if you can purchase a Pono MBD cheaper than I amselling mine. Simply because you agreeor disagree with something I have written is no reason to withhold information. I do not view this as interfering with a sale. I look at this as a service to would be buyers. And again, if you can buy it cheaper youwould be foolish to buy mine.
I traded for my first ukulele about 3 month ago; agorgeous custom LoPrinzi. Prior to thatI dealt only in guitars since that is the only instrument I play; I am stilllearning to play the ukulele. Withguitars if I want to establish a price it’s a simple matter of looking it up inthe Blue Book of Guitars and matching its condition to the manufacturer. I have not been able to find a similar documentfor ukuleles. My point is, this andother web sites specializing in ukuleles is the body of knowledge on the valueof these instruments. As long as thereis a free flow of information then everyone knows the value. I am certain that nongdam knows far more thanI do about dealing with the manufacturer as was exhibited in the captionpost. If it is not against the rules Iwould ask you to publish a phone number so everyone interested, including me,can contact the manufacturer. Doing sowould help the potential buyer get value for their dollar and that is far moreimportant than any sale.
Nongdam, the part of your post which say its better tobuy from the maker than a ukulele that has been used I fully agree with. There is no advantage of buying from aprivate party if you can buy from the manufacturer especially if themanufacturer offers support. I will tryand contact the manufacturer and publish what I find out.

Markr1
11-25-2012, 02:00 AM
I probably shouldn't do this as this is a for sell thread tho it's starting to not look
Like it but I can't say no anymore.
Thank you Daniel for your post. I was hoping someone would call the OP out because all this seems to be getting a little ridiculous. I'm beginning to think the OP is a bit of a drama queen or a troublemaker. I haven't figured out which yet.
I know this is inappropriate mods and I'm sorry but I just couldn't control myself anymore.
Good luck with the sell regardless.

1geo
11-25-2012, 02:09 AM
I've been called many things but never a "drama queen" I checked out your youtube clip and I love your kamaka and wish I could play half as well as you do. Thanks Geo.

Markr1
11-25-2012, 02:22 AM
Lol. I couldn't think of any other name that would fit. Thanks tho for the YouTube comment. By the way welcome to the forum. You seem to have livened things up around here just a bit.
I've been called many things but never a "drama queen" I checked out your youtube clip and I love your kamaka and wish I could play half as well as you do. Thanks Geo.

1geo
11-25-2012, 05:44 AM
Please forgive me for a comment off topic but so many people are followingthis sale I felt it’s appropriate. Markmade a clip on youtube titled, “Mark Raley playing 5 different Ukulele’s so youcan see the differences.” Its greatstuff, you’ve got to see it.

mds725
11-25-2012, 07:47 AM
..... The other exceptionI had with your post was next to the last sentence which I quoted above. In myoriginal question I did not use the words "full disclosure" I usedthe words, "what is honesty" To me being honest in your listing meansyou are willing and have a duty to disclose if a ukulele can be purchasedretail at the same or lower price....

I think we have a disagreement over what needs to be disclosed to consist of "honesty." Ordinarily, I'd agree that a seller is being honest by disclosing what the *same* ukulele would cost retail. But you acknowledged, not in your first post but later, that this isn't the *same* uke as the one you compared it to on the HMS website. This is a second/refurbished uke; the one you compared it to is brand new, without blemishes or refurbishing. That's kind of like comparing the asking price of a car that's been in a minor accident to the price of a new car of the same model that someone could buy in never-been-driven condition. The actual *retail* price of a refurbished ukulele is the price someone would pay the manufacturer for a refurbished uke, not the price someone would pay a retailer for a new uke with no blemishes or refurbishing. My point is that there are circumstances where disclosing the retail price of a new uke you're selling as used is being honest, but there are also circumstances under which the seller is not telling the full story and not making it possible for the buyer to make an informed decision. Once you disclosed the uke was refurbished, a seller could, as you suggest, do his or her own research to find out what the retail price is of a refurbished uke. Until you disclosed that, in my view, you weren't being honest even by your own definition of that term.



[COLOR=#222222][FONT="Verdana"].... I think what thisdiscussion is boiling down to is there are two schools of thought on what theUU Marketplace should be. One school believes that the marketplace should notbe used for "for profit" sales. In a pm I received this comment,"You've admitted to be deliberately selling for more than what you paidfor it - very unusual for this marketplace. Having sold close to 100instruments in my lifetime I would never consider doing such a thing as amatter of basic morality but I don't judge you for it." Obviously thisindividual feels that selling in the Marketplace for profit is immoral. Theother school of thought is that the Marketplace is what it says it is, a Marketplaceand that supply and demand and your willingness to pay will determine the valueof an item. In short, the price is the determining factor not if the seller ismaking a profit. These are philosophical views that will probably never bereconciled. I still have a mint Pono MBD for sale - anyone interested?

I have no objection to people making a profit on used ukes they sell or to letting the market determine the value of an ukulele to someone based on availability, condition of the uke being sold, and how badly a buyer wants it. That's the whole premise behind auctions, for example. I agree that if someone thinks a used Pono is a value because it's selling at a price less than retail then that's the value of the uke to that person, even if the seller is selling it for more than he bought it. But your comparison of your asking price to the retail price of a new pristine uke of the same model at HMS strongly suggests that you are saying your uke is similarly pristine. Thank you for eventually admitting that it isn't. The only retail price to which your asking price can honestly be compared is to the retail price of a similarly refurbished uke purchased from the manufacturer. If someone wants to pay $425 for a refurbished or blemished ukulele they might someday be able to get from Pono on eBay for a lower price, you have every rightto sell it to them at that price and I wouldn't begrudge the profit you made. However, I would hate to think that the buyer would pay $425 for that uke because he or she didn't know that the same refurbished ukes are cheaper on eBay (when they infrequently appear there) because he or she mistakenly believed that he was getting a deal (which you suggested several times) compared to the price of a uke that was not a refurbished uke.

1geo
11-25-2012, 10:59 AM
HImds725, you state in your response, “But your comparison of your asking price tothe retail price of a new pristine uke of the same model at HMS stronglysuggests that you are saying your uke is similarly pristine. Thank you foreventually admitting that it isn't.” Idon’t recall admitting that it isn’t. Ihave said repeatedly, I cannot find one mark on this ukulele it looks andsounds absolutely perfect. Yourargument that someone could “eventually” find one cheaper is true. In fact, as nongdam pointed out you may beable to buy one right now directly from the manufacturer cheaper. Earlier today I emailed Koolau requesting acontact to see if seconds were available and at what cost. When and if they respond I will publish theinformation I receive on this thread so ALL will be informed. My baritone is a great ukulele and worthevery penny I am asking for it. And, asfar as I’m concerned it IS PRISTINE. I challengeanyone to examine it and find differently. How many sales on this site do you find where the seller is offering a48 hour examination period that’s how confident I am about the quality of thisinstrument. Comparing my Pono to awrecked car is disingenuous. It is morelike a brand new car that has a small scratch that was painted over. It isonly known if brought to your attention and remember, I am the one who brought it to everyone’sattention. As I said previously, I haveonly been involved with ukuleles for three months but I’m a fast learner andnext time I will know exactly what to look for. If nothing else, this thread is aneducational experience worth its weight in gold.

OldePhart
11-25-2012, 12:29 PM
Hmmm, I think maybe it would be useful if the mods "stickied" this thread. It seems it would be quite a useful "buyer beware" for newbies to the forum - illustrating quite vividly the difference between what some sellers "say" and what they "do." :)

I've noticed where folks have quoted 1geo (he's on my ignore list so I don't see them directly) that he has apparently finally "fessed up" to being basically a profit-seeking instrument reseller. Nothing wrong with that, of course - but it's curious that most if not all of his sales here go to great lengths to make it look like he is just selling personal instruments that he no longer has use for. In fact, didn't he initially describe his reason for selling this uke as that "baritone was just too big for him?" That one struck me as strange from the beginning for someone who apparently has as much or more interest in guitars than ukes. How can a baritone uke be "too big" for a guitar player to handle?

Okay...I couldn't resist...I unignored him long enough to get this quote - the second sentence from his original post.

...The Baritone is just to large for me...

I guess there is a lot to be said for the statement that it's much easier to avoid contradicting yourself if you just tell the truth all the time... :biglaugh:

John

coolkayaker1
11-25-2012, 12:38 PM
Geo, if Pono says its a second, it's a second. You can argue until you're blue in he face that you see nothing wrong with it. That means little, because Pono saw something wrong with it.

Speaking of seconds, suggestion a second time: although not required, everyone who sells a ukulele on here puts a photo of the instrument, date and time and UU Forum on a hand-written sign. I suggest you do the same.

It's a nice instrument. I love Ponos.

Paul December
11-25-2012, 04:01 PM
Payback is a Bi%$h! :D

1geo
11-25-2012, 04:28 PM
Hi John, I liked you better when you were ignoring me. Why would you question my statement that I feel the baritone is to big for me just because I play guitars? If I had a choice in electric guitars I would choose one with a smaller scale but if I want to play a Gibson or Fender I have to play what they make and at 5' 4" with small hands it is a stretch. Go back to ignoring me John.

1geo
11-25-2012, 04:53 PM
Geo, if Pono says its a second, it's a second. You can argue until you're blue in he face that you see nothing wrong with it. That means little, because Pono saw something wrong with it.

Speaking of seconds, suggestion a second time: although not required, everyone who sells a ukulele on here puts a photo of the instrument, date and time and UU Forum on a hand-written sign. I suggest you do the same.

It's a nice instrument. I love Ponos.
coolkayaker1 with the mentality you stated in your first sentence it would appear you are in agreement with a wrecked car and a car with a small scratch are the same thing. One thing we have established in this thread is that Pono has high standards. How high I don't know but its high enough to were I cannot find anything wrong with my baritone since my statement is meaningless for you (as you stated above) I'll leave it there. I have no problem submitting a photo of the baritone with a date and since its important to you I will do so still I don't see why that's important?
45750

Hippie Dribble
11-25-2012, 05:00 PM
I have no problem submitting a photo of the baritone with a date and since its important to you I will do so still I don't see why that's important?
45750
Hi George, it's really for your own benefit as a new seller on the board, and for the benefit of potential buyers. It helps gain the trust of members/customers who may not otherwise know you; "proof" if you will that what is being advertised is actually your personal instrument and in your possession. Meant to be a kind of safety net to mitigate deception and/or fraud. Not a hard-and-fast rule but certainly of benefit for someone in your position as a new seller here.

mds725
11-25-2012, 05:05 PM
coolkayaker1 with the mentality you stated in your first sentence it would appear you are in agreement with a wrecked car and a car with a small scratch are the same thing. One thing we have established in this thread is that Pono has high standards. How high I don't know but its high enough to were I cannot find anything wrong with my baritone since my statement is meaningless for you (as you stated above) I'll leave it there. I have no problem submitting a photo of the baritone with a date and since its important to you I will do so still I don't see why that's important?
45750

I'm so tired of this thread I may have to shoot myself to prevent myself from responding again, but I couldn't let go the comparison of a wrecked car to a car with a scratch. My point, which seems to have been missed, is that a car that was in a minor accident and has been repaired to the point that a potential seller "cannot find a mark on it" is still NOT the same thing as a new car just off the lot. I stand by my suggestion earlier that your comparison of your asking price for an ukulele you know is a factory second to the asking price by a reputable retailer of an ukulele that is NOT a factory second is misleading. Period. Compare apples to apples. You ought to have compared your asking price to the retail asking price of OTHER factory seconds. If you don't get this, I'm simply going to ignore all of the threads you start in the Marketplace as a way of protecting myself as a consumer.

1geo
11-25-2012, 05:07 PM
Eugene, thanks for the clarification.

1geo
11-25-2012, 05:25 PM
I'm so tired of this thread I may have to shoot myself to prevent myself from responding again, but I couldn't let go the comparison of a wrecked car to a car with a scratch. My point, which seems to have been missed, is that a car that was in a minor accident and has been repaired to the point that a potential seller "cannot find a mark on it" is still NOT the same thing as a new car just off the lot. I stand by my suggestion earlier that your comparison of your asking price for an ukulele you know is a factory second to the asking price by a reputable retailer of an ukulele that is NOT a factory second is misleading. Period. Compare apples to apples. You ought to have compared your asking price to the retail asking price of OTHER factory seconds. If you don't get this, I'm simply going to ignore all of the threads you start in the Marketplace as a way of protecting myself as a consumer.
Good idea. As I have stated before, which you obviously do not believe, when I priced this piece I was NOT aware it was a second. I only realize it was a second when I saw the enlarge photo I had submitted with the ad. Since you don't believe me its pointless to labor the issue. One thing I do agree with is buying retail and buying from a private party are two different issues but not necessarily in the quality of the instrument; I see noting difference in quality and I have other pono's with and without a 2 on the label. The difference comes in 1. Pono offers a life time warrenty on new Pono's and 2. continued customer support after the sale. That is were the value is and as I have stated always consider buying retail. On the other hand, if you want to save a couple of hundred dollars, buy mine.

didgeridoo2
11-25-2012, 05:33 PM
coolkayaker1 with the mentality you stated in your first sentence it would appear you are in agreement with a wrecked car and a car with a small scratch are the same thing. I have no problem submitting a photo of the baritone with a date and since its important to you I will do so still I don't see why that's important?

Would you consider a neck that needed to be reset just a scratch? Because you have no idea that wasn't the problem with your uke. I don't know if that's what was wrong with mine because mine is scratch free, but I don't care since I paid less for a uke knowing that was a possibility. I wasn't privy to the issues my uke had before Pono fixed it up and I'm pretty sure you weren't. So lets not assume it was a scratch. It could have been, but you don't know for sure.


Good luck with your endeavors here.

1geo
11-25-2012, 05:48 PM
Would you consider a neck that needed to be reset just a scratch? Because you have no idea that wasn't the problem with your uke. I don't know if that's what was wrong with mine because mine is scratch free, but I don't care since I paid less for a uke knowing that was a possibility. I wasn't privy to the issues my uke had before Pono fixed it up and I'm pretty sure you weren't. So lets not assume it was a scratch. It could have been, but you don't know for sure.


Good luck with your endeavors here.
The point is neither do you. Nor anyone else for that matter. Pono states their ukuleles new or second are inperfect working order, I for one believe them. And the ponos I have prove that out.

1geo
11-25-2012, 05:50 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, I started this post two days agoand since then it has been viewed over 1500 times and has over 40 replies. During that period I have with stood as witheringan attack as has probably ever been seen before on this web site and I am stillstanding. It is my intention to continueto run my ad and to continue to respond to any and all questions. Simply put, if you post you are going to geta reply. When I originally submitted thispost, as stated many times, I was unaware I was posting a second but since thatis a fact, I have decided to lower my price to $375. At that price I am still making a smallprofit but that is as low as I can go. Iawait your future posts with great interest I only ask that you try and beoriginal in your questions and comments, repeating the same thing over and overagain can get boring.

specialk13
11-25-2012, 06:31 PM
1geo, although I may not agree with what, how, or why you are posting, I do feel you have seen more than your fair share of flak for this and other posts.
I have followed your posts since you started here and I don't think you should be put through the ringer because of how you want to do business especially, since it's clear you are unwavering in your methods. I don't think you are trying to mislead anyone either.
Anyways, for what it's worth, I support you as an individual on this forum because I believe it is the diverse community of members who make it special. Thanks for bringing some character to this forum.

itsme
11-25-2012, 07:16 PM
The Baritone is just to large for me. This MBD with Oahu hard case costs $687 on “The Ukulele Site” I’m asking $425 plus actual shippingcosts.


I have decided to lower my price to $375. At that price I am still making a smallprofit but that is as low as I can go.
Might I ask where you are buying your instruments that you can still make a "profit" selling at your discounted prices?

bbycrts
11-25-2012, 07:35 PM
Might I ask where you are buying your instruments that you can still make a "profit" selling at your discounted prices?

I seriously doubt that's any of your business, nor should it have any bearing on the sale of this instrument. The original poster's only mistake was in being too verbose in his own defense. It seems like every time he tried to explain something it would be picked to pieces for the sport of it. I don't think I've ever seen such a case of "piling on" here on UU.

Dan Uke
11-25-2012, 08:39 PM
Good idea. As I have stated before, which you obviously do not believe, when I priced this piece I was NOT aware it was a second. I only realize it was a second when I saw the enlarge photo I had submitted with the ad. Since you don't believe me its pointless to labor the issue. One thing I do agree with is buying retail and buying from a private party are two different issues but not necessarily in the quality of the instrument; I see noting difference in quality and I have other pono's with and without a 2 on the label. The difference comes in 1. Pono offers a life time warrenty on new Pono's and 2. continued customer support after the sale. That is were the value is and as I have stated always consider buying retail. On the other hand, if you want to save a couple of hundred dollars, buy mine.

Geo,

I have read my pm again and you have been very consistent in what you are telling everyone. One thing I would like to point out is that Geo has stated that he has several Pono Baritones and that this one was purchased from a private party. That means that he could have purchased another one thru ebay. I was confused in thinking that he purchased this one from ebay yet trying to tell a diff't story. He never said that so I apologize for making that assumption.
What he paid for the one for sale, who cares as it's his choice. Me thinking it was the same uke and Geo telling me to make prices public made me want to share my personal experience with Pono.

Let's show the aloha spirit (whatever that means) to every seller and hopefully every seller reciprocates.

I am not trying to support you as you don't need my support as you have clearly stated. What I support is that the marketplace will dictate the price of every item.

Hippie Dribble
11-25-2012, 09:08 PM
ok gang, this thread is a train wreck. It is pointless to continue this fight here. More generally, as members we need to be aware of what this thread is potentially doing to the reputation of our marketplace.

George, at your own determination, I invite you to relist this instrument for sale in a new thread, listing the specs, photos etc and making the full disclosures you have become aware of since your original posting several days ago.