Are these things overrated?

I play mostly tenors so it can be different for smaller ukes but I think Weight, Volume and Perfect Intonation are overrated.

1) Weight - I understand people talking about an over built instrument with too much bracing, etc but some instruments are heavier because the builder wanted a difft sound. Secondly, I rest my tenor on my lap so not too concerned how heavy it is.

2) Volume - Somewhat tied to above about over built but Dynamic Volume is over-rated. I've tried many ukes where people say its a good instrument because it is loud but I personally didn't like the sound.

3) Perfect Intonation - I used to obsess over intonation when I first started and used to constantly checked the 12th fret but now, it's not as big a deal as I realize that I bend the strings with my imperfect technique and I learn to compensate by how hard I place them, closer to the fret, etc. Now, I enjoy just playing and don't mind a flat or sharp note as I don't have perfect technique.

Do you agree or disagree? What are other things that are overrated?

They're apparently overrated for you. But I can understand why they're important to some people. Weight might indicate that the builder crafted the thinnest and most responsive possible soundboard, although weight can also be attributed to things like heavy tuning machines or a big headstock or thick neck. For me, a lighter instrument feels more playable, even though I use a strap. Volume by itself means little to me, but when I play an ukulele for the first time I feel for how much it vibrates against by body. I think resonance is one sign of an ukulele that is well built and not overbraced, and often a more resonant uke is a louder uke. I don't play up the fretboard much (yet), so in some way how an ukulele plays at the 12th fret is irrelevant to me at the moment, but I think good intonation up the neck is one sign of a well-built ukulele, and sharp and flat notes matter to me when I play with others. In sum, those qualities may not be independently important as you label them, but I feel that if one thinks of them in a certain way, they can be indicators of how well the ukulele was designed and crafted, and that stuff matters to me if I'm spending a sizeable amount of money on an instrument.

Very well said Mark. Collectively they are very important to me as well. I am just using words I hear all the time on Uke Talk and when I was a beginner reading UU, these words were thrown out all the time even for less expensive uke so I really didn't understand what to look for.

I know what resonant means but that would be tough to understand unless you play lots of instruments. When I first started, I had a Pono Concert that would vibrate and actually felt very odd like there was something wrong. With some of my other ukes, certain notes make the uke vibrate more than others

Ultimately, I am trying to say just enjoy your instrument!

Brah, I found this link regarding intonation on a uke ... or lack thereof.

http://www.ukuleleworld.com/intonation.html

Intonation will become more important to you as your ear develops - though if you play a lot of instruments with iffy intonation your ear probably won't develop. It's one of those things that "if you're happy, that's all that matters...until you start playing for or with others" Honestly, I hear some YouTube videos by people who are far better players than I but I can't even make it to the end because the intonation is so horrible. Sour chords are right up there with fingernails on blackboards...

I played guitar for many years and I was always of the stripe that if the intonation was within ten cents at the first fret that was "good enough" in spite of the fact that my blind friend with perfect pitch was always complaining. I thought he was just a perfectionist as I couldn't hear anything wrong. Then...I bought nut files and started setting up all my instruments for perfect intonation at the first fret. Now, if the relative tuning is off by more than a couple of cents in a chord I hear it instantly and it drives me bananas because I've been playing "perfect" instruments for a few years. I have one guitar that was my favorite guitar - the intonation was off by about 5 cents at the first fret - I pulled it out after not playing it for a couple of years (uke does that, you know) and the sour chords were so distracting I couldn't even play it. Obviously, I need to get around to setting that baby up!

The bottom line is that intonation might not matter to you...but it almost certainly does to some of the people that you play for or with.

Intonation up the neck is a little less important to me because I don't play up there often and when I do it is usually picked notes, not chords. Still...I am happiest when I find the right strings for a uke so it intonates well even up the neck.

As for weight...no one builds heavy intentionally to get a certain sound - heavy ukes are heavy because it is easier and cheaper to build heavy ukes that roll off a factory line with little attention by human hands and that don't break easily when they are abused by folks who don't know how to treat their instruments. It's not the weight of the uke that is the problem, it is that the tone, sustain, clarity, and so on also suffers not only because of the "overbuilding" but because of other corners that are most often cut to keep expenses down on those same ukes.

As for dynamic volume it is critical in a good instrument unless you are just going to bang away and sing along (and there's nothing wrong with that, it's mostly what I do, in fact). I guess young ears are used to pre-recorded pop music where there are few dynamics - if you look at a wave file of most modern music there are no dynamics - everything is intentionally compressed to keep the volume pumped up all the time. But, if you listen to a classical performance, or an acoustic performance by a really good guitarist or ukulele player, you see what an important role dynamic volume plays. You can't get dynamic volume unless an instrument is capable of giving a good ringing tone even when very lightly played...and that can be hammered without becoming buzzing or harsh.

So...I guess your question of "are these things overrated" is really kind of a personal one. If someone doesn't play with dynamics and hasn't developed the ear to be annoyed by sour, poorly intonated chords, the answer is probably "yes, all those things are overrated." Unfortunately, if one "settles" for that type of instrument they'll never develop the ear to reach the point where that answer changes for them (remember, I played poorly intonated guitars for fifteen years or more and didn't realize it in spite of being told until I started playing properly intonated ones). That wouldn't necessarily matter, unless you are playing for others.

John

I just wrote on another post in Uke Talk about a lack of a common vocabulary.
With wood, it is either laminated or it is solid. It is not as simple as that with hearing...or seeing...or feeling...or tasting...or smelling.
Our daughter asked if everyone sees the same colour when looking at an object.
What a revelation when I had the lens replaced in my right eye, and the lens in the left eye was still the same. We do not all see the same colour. Our other daughter is cursed with A440 perfect pitch. She is about to spend several thousand dollars to get her piano rebuilt, because the pitch variations of the same note up and down the keyboard bothers her. I love peanut butter! I know some people who are extremely allergic to them. The term overrated is another one of the examples in several different areas which do not seem to affect you in an adverse manner. Not everyone wears a size 9 shoe. Some people stand to play and prefer a strap. Playing alone or with someone else also makes a difference. I am quite familiar with the standard of GOOD ENOUGH FOR WHO IT'S FOR. In my upholstery classes, it states that the standard of excellence is that of the student or the instructor---whichever is higher. I have refused to do work for people because they do not want to pay for the time it takes to do it right. To them it is overrated.To my professional standards, it is unacceptable, and do not want my business name connected with it.

To me, trying to find things which are overrated is overrated. We are individuals with different sensory levels.

I prefer a lightweight instrument with perfect intonation and good volume.

Don't go by me, though. I'm a rebel.

I pretty much disagree with you almost 100%.

1. Weight - It isn't about how heavy it is to hold. The heavier instruments tend to have wood that is too thick or too much bracing. A light instrument will allow the more vibration and resonance. The tradeoff is that very very light instruments are going to be more fragile and more prone to cracks and the like. Balance is important to, so a light weight body with a heavy neck is going to be harder to play.

2. Volume - Here I agree a little bit more. Volume is very important because it does allow more dynamic range, but I'd rather have great tone and not as much volume. Loud isn't everything but a great instrument will have volume.

3. Intonation - Ahh. Here's the rub. A uke - no stringed instrument with frets - will never have perfect intonation. Some will be better than others. Intonation is also affected by playing. Still some ukes have pretty bad intonation. Better intonation is better. Perfect intonation - no matter how many people claim they have a uke with perfect intonation on this forum - just doesn't exist.

These are three of the most important factors in evaluating a uke. Some people will say fit and finish are overrated - historically builder just cared about sound. A rough edge here and there or a spot of glue don't change the sound. Other people expect their instrument to be perfect. Some people care how much their uke looks and others don't care about looks at all.

Number one for me is looks , it has to look right or I don't want to play it.

slackkey007 said:

Brah, I found this link regarding intonation on a uke ... or lack thereof.

http://www.ukuleleworld.com/intonation.html

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Hah, hah. I bet bruddah Chuck and the other Luthiers would beg to differ with about three-quarters of that article.

I find it interesting that an article at ukuleleworld.com is basically a "put-down" piece saying that the ukulele can't be taken seriously as an instrument and is "just for fun." That certainly illustrates where the authors of that site are coming from...and how little experience they have with decent ukuleles...

Perfect intonation at the first fret is possible on any ukulele - it's merely a matter of getting the nut slots the right height. Of course, that also means frets must be leveled perfectly, etc., to get the action low enough. First-fret intonation is the weakest point of inexpensive ukuleles, especially, and the most easily corrected, and the referenced article doesn't even mention it!

Intonation up the neck depends on more factors, but very good intonation is certainly possible by selecting the right strings for the uke and getting the bridge saddle in the perfect spot. (Action height at the bridge end has relatively little affect on intonation unless it is crazy high.) Even many factory ukes can have quite decent intonation up the neck when one finds the right strings.

All of my ukes have perfect intonation at the first fret - some of them came that way and some of them I adjusted. My mahogany soprano strung with heavy strings has intonation within 2 cents at the 12th fret - and it's a less than $200 uke...and I haven't gotten around to compensating the saddle yet - once I do that, the intonation will be spot on (for these strings). My Pono baritone came with intonation at the 12th within 3 cents. By comparison, my $1600 Taylor steel-string guitar came with intonation at the 12th fret only being within about 4 cents in spite of the compensated saddle.

John

coolkayaker1 said:

I prefer a lightweight instrument with perfect intonation and good volume.

Don't go by me, though. I'm a rebel.

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Haha! I'm with you! Another rebel!

Thanks everyone for the comments and I'm glad there is much clarity as I made a general comment.

I have 4 ukes (Kamaka, I'iwi, LFDM, and waiting for a Collings to arrive) and some are lighter, louder, and better intonated but at the end of the day, I like playing them all. Yes I did think about all those words but didn't dwell on them as I purchased these ukes. It's relative as I am going by ukes that are considered very good instruments. I am not comparing one of these to a $100 instrument.

coolkayaker1 said:

I prefer a lightweight instrument with perfect intonation and good volume.

Don't go by me, though. I'm a rebel.

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HAHA...that's a good one Steve!

That is an interesting premise, Daniel. For me, ultimately the sound and tone of a uke are the most important factors. But a uke's sound and tone are directly affected by its weight, volume, and intonation.

dkcrown said:

That is an interesting premise, Daniel. For me, ultimately the sound and tone of a uke are the most important factors. But a uke's sound and tone are directly affected by its weight, volume, and intonation.

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+1 Dana...that's what I'm trying to say...Thank you

Pukulele Pete said:

Number one for me is looks , it has to look right or I don't want to play it.

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Wow an honest answer..hardly see that! Lol but i know what you mean >>most people buy what looks nice to them first..

but intonation to me very important..

i like a uke that you can hear but i play mostly fingerstyle so not that important..

too light does not feel that great when i am holding the uke but i guess a lighter uke should sound better..but if the uke is a little heavier than another one that is lighter and sounds better i don't care about the weight

To me weight and intonation are incredibly important, not sure how good intonation could ever be over-rated. A uke with bad intonation is unplayable. Lighter ukes tend to be more responsive, but ideally a uke would at least be nicely balanced and not top-heavy. Volume is less important to me as opposed to tone.

If I didn't have decent intonation, I'd have to not play ukulele, because too far sharp or flat is just headache-inducing. I don't even have perfect pitch just decent normal relative pitch. Also dynamics are so so so very important to any instrument. To me dynamics isn't just how loud it goes, but rather its ability to respond to volume changes I make myself with my own hands. I agree with you that all loud all the time doesn't equal good.

Weight, in ukes, probably is a part of what makes the uke able to do the above things, but if a heavy uke did what I wanted, then hey great.

Also feel is important. How nice that neck and fretboard feels to the hands, making us legends in our own minds whenever we play.

nongdam said:

Thanks everyone for the comments and I'm glad there is much clarity as I made a general comment.

I have 4 ukes (Kamaka, I'iwi, LFDM, and waiting for a Collings to arrive) and some are lighter, louder, and better intonated but at the end of the day, I like playing them all. Yes I did think about all those words but didn't dwell on them as I purchased these ukes. It's relative as I am going by ukes that are considered very good instruments. I am not comparing one of these to a $100 instrument.

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I can accept your premise if all your ukes are high quality and well set up, there shouldn't any big problems with intonation on them. Sort of like saying, "all restaraunt food tastes good to me" and then revealing that you only eat at great steakhouses. If you start eating at greasy spoon diners or buying $50 ukes you will run into a bad one some day.

eugene ukulele said:

To me weight and intonation are incredibly important, not sure how good intonation could ever be over-rated. A uke with bad intonation is unplayable. Lighter ukes tend to be more responsive, but ideally a uke would at least be nicely balanced and not top-heavy. Volume is less important to me as opposed to tone.

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Agreed I dont see how you can have too good of an intonation. Although I think I see the OP's point that it doesnt have to be perfect in order to be fun to play.
I actually prefer a heavier uke as far as weight goes. The neck on my mainland is heavier and more solid feeling than other ukes Ive tried, and I like that, it does make the balance a little wonky sometimes, but it doesnt affect me much. I dont like the featherlight ones as I play pretty aggressively, and I feel like they are going to break. Its the same reason I dont like low tension strings. As far as volume I like a louder uke, but again its just a function of style.