Vintage Collectors: Cracks?

pdxuke

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Hello Vintage Lovers:

As some of you know, I collect new and vintage ukes, and lately, Martins.

We all have parameters of buying, and mine has always been: "no cracks, repaired or otherwise."

I'd love to hear your opinions of this. Are repaired cracks (cleats) no big deal? Do they impact the sound? Do you find them acceptable?
 
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For me, there are some ukuleles that I assume I will never find in pristine condition. When I started collecting, I only looked for examples which had no cracks and needed no repair. Then, I found a couple ukuleles that I think it unlikely I will ever find again, and they had cracks. I decided I would rather have the ukulele with repairs rather then not have it......so, I had them repaired and you know what, I don't even think about it anymore. If you have a luthier who knows what he/she is doing, and does appropriate cleats, it really takes care of the issue.

I don't worry about it anymore, but I do consider how much I will have to spend to have it repaired in considering the price I am willing to pay. I have a Marca Aquila next to me right now that predates any Martin. When I bout it, it had a crack from the side of the bridge to the tail block, which vibrated when strummed. My luthier got in there and dealt with it and now it plays beautifully, and sounds amazing. So, I think if it is a uke you really want, and the price is reasonable factoring in the repairs, don't let it hold you back.
 
It depends. You did mention the word "collector", and as a collector I would want as little imperfection as possible. Now, as a player who happens to prefer vintage instruments (and has more than one) a minor and very well repaired crack does not bother me at all. As long as a vintage ukulele has a great "voice" an imperfection does not stop me from purchasing.
 
For me, there are some ukuleles that I assume I will never find in pristine condition. When I started collecting, I only looked for examples which had no cracks and needed no repair. Then, I found a couple ukuleles that I think it unlikely I will ever find again, and they had cracks. I decided I would rather have the ukulele with repairs rather then not have it......so, I had them repaired and you know what, I don't even think about it anymore. If you have a luthier who knows what he/she is doing, and does appropriate cleats, it really takes care of the issue.

I don't worry about it anymore, but I do consider how much I will have to spend to have it repaired in considering the price I am willing to pay. I have a Marca Aquila next to me right now that predates any Martin. When I bout it, it had a crack from the side of the bridge to the tail block, which vibrated when strummed. My luthier got in there and dealt with it and now it plays beautifully, and sounds amazing. So, I think if it is a uke you really want, and the price is reasonable factoring in the repairs, don't let it hold you back.

Thanks Ryan.

A lot of ukes are advertised as already being repaired. This, for example:
http://bernunzio.com/product/martin-style-0-15871/

What do you look for when a uke is decsribed as "cracks that have been repaired?" What questions would you want answered?
 
It depends. You did mention the word "collector", and as a collector I would want as little imperfection as possible. Now, as a player who happens to prefer vintage instruments (and has more than one) a minor and very well repaired crack does not bother me at all. As long as a vintage ukulele has a great "voice" an imperfection does not stop me from purchasing.

I see your distinction. I am a player who likes nice instruments :). But i understand the difference in what you mean, and that would change the parameters of the deal depending on where in the COLLECTOR-PLAYER spectrum you were.
 
I'm not a collector, strictly a player. For me, a stable crack in the back or side wouldn't be a deal breaker as it shouldn't really affect the sound. (There are exceptions, I've seen a couple of ukes that were so badly cracked all the way around the sides that the back was separating from the front.)

I'd be more leary of a soundboard crack unless it was very meticulously repaired and I could be sure that the repair didn't add enough mass to the fretboard to adversely affect the sound.
 
I see your distinction. I am a player who likes nice instruments :). But i understand the difference in what you mean, and that would change the parameters of the deal depending on where in the COLLECTOR-PLAYER spectrum you were.

Exactly! I personally have made purchases from both ends of that spectrum. But when I am buying from the "playing" side slight damage and or repair does not keep me away from a purchase when I find a great sounding ukulele and the price is right :)
 
my first martin was a 40's style 2 with a crack 2" crack in the back....I got it for 200.00 I sent it to the best luthier in town after inspecting it to see how it sounds
and if it was worth fixing because it had a great sound....a lesser sounding uke I may have not... well it came back, I almost cannot tell where the crack and plug is..even
in the reflection....it has been 4 years and still doing well... while I know I won't sell this baby, it was well worth it... if I was thinking to resell, I've got to have it
at a good enough price with the purchase price and repairs to make sure that I am about the value of the uke...UNLESS IT SOUNDS GREAT, but then I would not sell it anyways..LOL
 
A lot of ukes are advertised as already being repaired. This, for example:
http://bernunzio.com/product/martin-style-0-15871/

What do you look for when a uke is decsribed as "cracks that have been repaired?" What questions would you want answered?

Well, I look at it as a bit of a crap shoot really with previously repaired instruments. I would rather get one that has not been repaired, and have it done correctly. I have a couple instruments which have repaired cracks on the soundboard, and they sound great. I don't know that doing a good repair on the soundboard really changes the sound, I'd like to hear what the luthiers say about that. Heck, if one wants a vintage Kamaka, one will have to deal with cracks below the bridge....as most of them suffer this fate.

I have an instrument with a bad crack repair on the side. Someone slapped some glue on there at some point and didn't even get the sides of the crack aligned with one another. When my luthier looked at it he said that it is stable, a little ugly, but not an area of the ukulele which is under stress, or which effects sound and unless it really drives me nuts, it should be left alone. So, thus it sits and hasn't given me a bit of worry or trouble.

I was recently at the home of a collector who has over 360 vintage ukuleles. He buys them in ANY condition. Many are broken beyond repair and he doesn't care at all. He has many pristine ukuleles and many more which were headed for the garbage, and I am delighted that he has saved all of them. Some have amazingly bad repairs attempted, things that make someone like me with only the most basic understanding of repair, just cringe and laugh. However, I just look at it as the path that ukulele has traveled.

All that being said, I prefer all my ukuleles to be players and if an ukulele can't be made to be playable I am usually not interested....unless of course I came across something really, really special, but even then I'd likely want to make it playable if possible.
 
What do you look for when a uke is decsribed as "cracks that have been repaired?" What questions would you want answered?
I would prefer cracks not be repaired and received as is, Unless it is done by a professional and it is a good job
I rather buy playable ukes only unless certain uke is extememly rare and fixable...you know many good repairs may well cost more than the uke itself unless you are doing it yourself..
 
These answers have been very helpful. Finding ukes on ebay advertised as "repaired" has always worried me, 1, because I don't know the quality of the repair, and 2, I don't know what it sounds like. I'd be much more likely to buy a repaired uke from a shop like Gryphon, where I know they are experienced luthiers and I trust what they say about the uke.

BTW, my '48 style 0 is from Gryphon. It had no repairs, but the experience of dealing with them was so positive I would not hesitate to do it again.
 
I've bought ukes with cracks at 1/3 the price of their uncracked brethren. I have been happy with every one. but then, I buy them to play them, no wall hangers for me. I'd rather buy them unrepaired though. nothing worse than a sloppy repair.
 
There is a difference between a crack and a split. Koa seems more prone to shrink and split.The only cure for that is is to glue a very thin veneer on the inside, and fill the split with something as close to the colour as you can . With a crack,push one side down and lay a thin line of TiteBond II from hypodermic syringe with a subcutaneous needle on it. Push the other side down and run a thin bead of glue on it. Rub the two side together and line up the edges. Wipe off the excess with a DAMP--not sopping wet--rag and work the two edges against each other to be sure there is glue to glue contact. The very small cleats at each end of the crack keep it from continuing to run . If the two sides are flush with each other, just wait for 24 hours. With the woodworker's glue, chances that crack will ever open up again are less than that it will crack somewhere else. There are some reamalgamating products which take colour and finish from other ares and redistribute it to the needed area. It seems a lot of it has to do with what one feels comfortable doing. Get some beaters and practice.
 
Not much to add, I think that cracks only matter if you're a collector or they affect the sound. Best to play them unrepaired and if they sound great it's unlikely that a competent luthier will mess up the sound. It's difficult to find vintage Martins or old Koa ukes without cracks and unless the person doesn't know what they have the price will be high.
 
Craft, this is quite helpful, thanks.

Q: the youtube videos I have seen all use low viscosity CA. I have not seen ones using Titebond, although I'm aware of the excellent properties of Titebond for bridges, etc. I can see a potential advantage to Titebond as its more forgiving for a wet towel to wipe off...CA is messy stuff and can ruin the finish. Yet, unless the crack is as large as you mention, to move the sides, is Titebond thin enough?


There is a difference between a crack and a split. Koa seems more prone to shrink and split.The only cure for that is is to glue a very thin veneer on the inside, and fill the split with something as close to the colour as you can . With a crack,push one side down and lay a thin line of TiteBond II from hypodermic syringe with a subcutaneous needle on it. Push the other side down and run a thin bead of glue on it. Rub the two side together and line up the edges. Wipe off the excess with a DAMP--not sopping wet--rag and work the two edges against each other to be sure there is glue to glue contact. The very small cleats at each end of the crack keep it from continuing to run . If the two sides are flush with each other, just wait for 24 hours. With the woodworker's glue, chances that crack will ever open up again are less than that it will crack somewhere else. There are some reamalgamating products which take colour and finish from other ares and redistribute it to the needed area. It seems a lot of it has to do with what one feels comfortable doing. Get some beaters and practice.
 
My favorite Martin is a Style 1 that I got years ago on Ebay for 66 bucks. It had a dozen cracks, the nut was missing , it had a hole, and someone painted it with psychedelic designs. I removed the paint fixed the hole, made a new nut ,repaired the cracks and part of the rosewood binding and I think it sounds great. I resprayed it with clear lacquer and I couldnt be happier. The cracks on the back I fixed with titebond and the ones on the top with hot hide glue. There is no decal on the headstock but there is a stamp on the back of the headstock so I assume it is from around 1932. Doing the repairs was fun for me . The uke looked like crap when I got it that's why I got it so cheap. I still daydream about finding another Martin for 66 bucks , ............ it could happen.
 
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So none of you guys will be bidding against me on the cracked and repaired Martin I want on eBay, right? :iwant:
 
So none of you guys will be bidding against me on the cracked and repaired Martin I want on eBay, right? :iwant:

Ummm...got a link for that? ;-)
 
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