Tuning to various frequencies, 440 vs. 432 MHz

Hey guys!

Just today a 'Guitarman GMT01B' tuner arrived in the post for me.
One of the features is being able to set a frequency to tune to, this was one of the reasons I chose this over the similar priced and well reputed Snark.

I instantly set the tuning to 432Mhz and down-tuned it ever so slightly, there is in fact a (subtle!) noticeable difference, and that's coming from someone who is rather tone deaf!

So it got me thinking, what are your views on how our brains react to certain frequencies? Do you tune down/up to a different frequency? And what others are out there?

Maluhia!
Sam

It's quite possible that slightly different frequencies match the natural resonance of you instrument better than the typical A=440.


It's also interesting to note that, until relatively recently, tunings were regional. As you went from one country, or even town, to the next, you'd find that A=435, or 415, or 395, or...

It is almost self explanatory that it effects the resonance! An interesting point is the effect of frequencies on water, for example;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naZr5kkAzYM

I have never heard of regional frequencies, I will definitely look in to this, thanks!

Maluhia!

Yes the strings resonate better drop tuned, the lesser tension, provides it to do so......I prefer it that way to me with a richer deeper sound and more resonation and substain
and uptuning goes the oppisite way making it brighter....

If you're tuning to 432MHz that must be some pretty high string tension (MHz is the abbreviation for mega (millions) of hertz). :biglaugh:

I'm not sure what operates in the 432MHz region but FM broadcast radio in the US is ~ 88MHz to 106MHz...

mm stan said:

Yes the strings resonate better drop tuned, the lesser tension, provides it to do so......I prefer it that way to me with a richer deeper sound and more resonation and substain
and uptuning goes the oppisite way making it brighter....

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Can someone say it in an easier way...I'm having a hard time understanding what resonate means. I understand how less tension will cause the strings to have longer sustain but not sure what it means to resonate better drop tuned.

I should clarify that by "relatively recently," I meant for most of the last couple hundred years. Though, there are still different places that use slightly different tunings.

Here's a pertinent article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch#Pre-19th_century

Any acoustic instrument with strings putting tension on a wooden soundboard will sound different when you change the tension on the strings. Better? Worse? Impossible to say. When you add tension to the soundboard, it will vibrate less, and give you less volume, less sustain, and usually a brighter tone (assuming same strings). Decrease the tension and you get the opposite, up to a point. Lower the tension on the strings until they are loose, and you do free up the soundboard to vibrate very freely, but you can't play the instrument.

The article linked by JamieFromOntario is excellent reading and nicely researched. But, the thing to keep in mind is that in the 18th century, and before, there were no electronic measuring devices to set a consistent standard. And tuning forks and pitch pipes were less accurately built, (you could hardly call them manufactured). So no matter how "concerted" the effort to standardize pitch, the success of that effort would look rather inaccurate to us. In the year 1720, A400 and A422 were really very close. 20 cps is almost nothing especially when you consider that London was days or weeks of travel from Leipzig. Today, we can access a presice A440 from our telephones almost anywhere on the planet. As for being forced to tune organs up due to wear and tear, that has nothing to do with standardization.

Now standardizing tuning is another story altogether. Very different than standardized pitch and immensely more complex.

This whole conversation confuses me When I went to music school, A =440.

OldePhart said:

If you're tuning to 432MHz that must be some pretty high string tension (MHz is the abbreviation for mega (millions) of hertz). :biglaugh:

I'm not sure what operates in the 432MHz region but FM broadcast radio in the US is ~ 88MHz to 106MHz...

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Haha, thanks! What I of course meant was Hz!


The point I originally tried to hint at was the effect of drop tuning or tuning up on the brain rather than the effect on the instrument. I know Bob Marley drop tuned to 432Hz for example, and Hendrix to 415Hz (half step).
I was reading an article recently which stated that A=440Hz ('standard') could cause anti-social behaviour. Maybe not so extreme as that, but being quite a spiritual character I am in to a bit of meditation and stumbled upon binaural beats (worth researching), and these 'beats' use two octaves of the same note in a certain frequency to create the binaural warbling, and these affect your brain in certain ways. A popular frequency for these is 432Hz.
Which also got me wondering about dual stringed instruments, like 12 string guitars and 5/6/8 stringed ukes, surely everything you play matches notes together and creates warbling, maybe having an even more noticeable effect with downtuning. This is possibly why Pearl Jams 'Binaural' album featured a lot of 12 string guitar.

Maluhia.

JamieFromOntario said:

I should clarify that by "relatively recently," I meant for most of the last couple hundred years. Though, there are still different places that use slightly different tunings.

Here's a pertinent article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch#Pre-19th_century

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Cheers for this, I tried to research varying/localised pitches as you mentioned it but no avail. This is what I was looking for!
I may have to bookmark the whole article.

You bring up great points, if you are into the spiritual side of things I would urge you googled binaural beats!

Equal temperament sounds very intriguing, maybe it is possible to play in a group with different references but still sounding great as a whole!

A lot of early music groups, particularly choirs and string ensembles, play using tunings different than equal temperament.

The biggest and most obvious changes that these groups make are:
- they lower the 3rd of the tonic chord (i.e.: when playing in C-major, they lower the E slightly). You'll notice that if you tune your C and E strings exactly, according to your electronic tuner, beats (consistent pulses in the volume of the two notes) will occur when you play the two strings together. If you drop the tuning of the E slightly, you'll see that the beats disappear. This is what early musicians aim for.
- they also lower the leading tone (i.e.: the 7th note of the scale, the ti before do) slightly.

Or course these changes can cause problems in the tuning of other chords. This is the whole reason why equal temperament was created, and why Bach wrote the "Well-Tempered Clavier."

If you have a tuner that you can adjust the cents that it tunes, not hz, try this.

g - subtract 8cents
c - subtract 4 cents
e - subtract 6 cents
a - subtract 3 cents

This is what James Taylor does on his guitar. Tried it on a uke and it is great! It's tuning the instrument just slightly flat, it's also a form of sweetened tuning. Sounds great on a low G ukulele, as well as a guitar!

Ahh, a kindred spirit. Plainsong knows about tempered scales! Yes the Well Tempered Klavier was composed utilizing many different temperments of J.S. Bach's own design (not the equal temperment piano and organ tuners use today). Bach was so incredibly knowledgeable in this area that he composed each piece to work with a different temperment in order to make intervals sound less harsh (or more harsh if he wanted harsh) in each piece. In order to perform the entire collection as Bach intended, the instrument must be re-tuned for each piece. Try playing the first piece with the instrument tuned for any of the others and it may sound horrible. He wanted this work to sound as perfect as possible. Amazing to dopes like me. The equal temperment is designed, instead, to make a keyboard instrument sound equally out of tune in all keys and in all situations.

pdxuke said:

This whole conversation confuses me When I went to music school, A =440.

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Yes, in music school, A=440, C=523.3, E=329.6.......

In tuning school, you may only choose one, when tuning a fretted or keyboard instrument. Perfect tuning is based on the overtone series that is found in the nature of each note. Now, if you tune a precise minor third up from a perfect A440, your C will be considerably higher than C523.3. This is because each note has its own natural overtone series. So, C will be different in the Key of A minor than a C in the key of C, or F, Bb, or any other key. Hence, your A440 will be out of tune in the key of C or G# ... When the notes are fixed, every note is somewhat out of tune with every other note (Octaves being the theoretical exception). A keyboard or fretted instrument is tuned with a tempered scale that compensates for hundreds or even thousands of mathematically unavoidable discrepancies.

And you thought you were confused before!! Just use the electronic tuner for your ukulele and you'll be fine. And use any standard the tuner allows you. If you like, tune a little flat or a little sharp, as long as you don't tune so high that the tension will harm your instrument.

I believe the goal is to understand that there will be discrepancies and that's fine. Tune and get started playing.

Ah. Ok, Steve I get it now. Thanks for stepping it out!

stevepetergal said:

Yes, in music school, A=440, C=523.3, E=329.6.......

In tuning school, you may only choose one, when tuning a fretted or keyboard instrument. Perfect tuning is based on the overtone series that is found in the nature of each note. Now, if you tune a precise minor third up from a perfect A440, your C will be considerably higher than C523.3. This is because each note has its own natural overtone series. So, C will be different in the Key of A minor than a C in the key of F, or any other key. Hence, your A440 will be out of tune in the key of C or G# ... When the notes are fixed, every note is somewhat out of tune with every other note (Octaves being the theoretical exception). A keyboard or fretted instrument is tuned with a tempered scale that compensates for hundreds or even thousands of mathematically unavoidable discrepancies.

And you thought you were confused before!! Just use the electronic tuner for your ukulele and you'll be fine.

Click to expand...