Dovetail Neck Joint

ukebuilder

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I have been thinking about trying out the dovetail joint to try and take out some of the hand work in fitting the neck to the body. I have been a Union Bricklayer all my life and now at 42 my hands and wrists are about done. So I am looking at trying Pete's type of building with templates and the router. Shaping the neck just about kills me. So any help in getting started would be great. I have looked at LMI and Stew but they sell stuff for full size guitars and not ukes. Not wanting to reinvent the wheel thought I would ask before jumping in. This will save my hands a little, and the longer I am able to build the better. Its hell to get old. OK well, to get OLDER! LOL
 
1-Mortise and tenon with bolt(s)

2-Dove tail with bolt(s) (ie- not actually using the dovetail to get a tight fitting joint, just to sit the neck in teh body, then bolts to pull both together)

3-Flush butt join with bolts

They are all the same difficulty on the hands and mind
 
4) Spanish heel, no need to fit the neck to the body, it's already attached.


Just a thought, but wouldn't a butt join be the easiest to floss to the body. I would have thought that a dovetail join, with the compound angles, would be the hardest to fit to the body.
 
I have thought about the Spanish style, I am not sure of the three what is the hardest, never tried any other than flush with a bolt on. Doing the Spanish style is a totally different way of building for me and would just have to try it. For some reason it just seems like a backwards way of building. Is it not possible to get it close with the router and jig, so all is needed is fine sanding. I now use a spindle sander and get it close then lots of hand work to get it there.....
 
4) Spanish heel, no need to fit the neck to the body, it's already attached.

Just a thought, but wouldn't a butt join be the easiest to floss to the body. I would have thought that a dovetail join, with the compound angles, would be the hardest to fit to the body.

oh yer- i forgot the Spanish method....! Not for me though as i'm Australian :)

The super easiest way by far for construction/time/etc (hence why alot do it) is a bolt on butt join on a flat area where the neck joins the body. However, I don't like the look of a flat upper bout (and lower bout). They always appear to be inverted due to curve and eye trickery. You can have a flat area but do some tricks with purfling to make it look non flat but its time id rather spend just having a round upper bout and dealing with it.

Each to their own.
 
Just waiting for Rick to weigh in on dovetails here. *grabs box of popcorn and sits back*
 
Bouts should be like bums, nice plumpy n round

I agree with all of you that the flat top looks cheap to me or just not right. I would say on a pineapple would be ok with a flat top due to the bottom being rounded. I guess I will just take pain pills and suck it up.
 
The stewmac and LMI ones slide, so you'd just be using the last 1/2 or so.
 
Check out Peter coombe mandolins. He has a very unique way to do a dovetail the same style as Dudenbostil 2 very respected names in mandolin
 
Each method has it's merits, and which you choose will depend on the body style you are using, your building approach and I suppose your temperament. Really, I could care less which way people attach a neck. It's not religion or politics, which I could care even less about as well.

In guitars I use a bolt on tenon for reasons of size, tension and more than anything else, customer expectations.

For ukes I go with the Spanish Heel, as it's what I discussed at length with Rick Turner when starting to teach classes. It's merits in the class setting so far outweigh any other method that it's hands down the only way I would do a class.

With that settled and my head wrapped around how to go about it in the class setting, I asked myself why I would use another method for my own instruments. And I couldn't think of one single overriding reason that would make me choose another. So I switched my production over to the Spanish Heel method.

Sure, it's a different way to build for many, and certainly those in the USA. And you do need some skill and know how to get it right. But thats not any more difficult that doing a good job in another method.

What it does allow is a very good neck to body join with no flossing or shimming to get the correct fit and pitch. You can use any shape of upper bout that you like. Mine is very slope shouldered, and is quite difficult to achieve with any other type of neck system. And if you were paying attention when glueing the neck to the top, the alignment of the fret board down the centre of the top is already dialled in for you.

For many, those three things are the most daunting and demanding aspects of building. The ones where the most things go wrong, and certainly the ones where it greatly affects the playability of the instrument, and ultimately its success.

The rest is just careful woodwork and experience.
 
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The main problem with Spanish heel is the tricky carving of the heel next to the sides. The more of that you can to before gluing in the sides, the better, though that's not how the Spanish do it.

As for bolt-on, why would anyone think that it's necessary to have the upper bout be flat at the neck joint? You just shape the face of the heel to match or actually make it a little bit of a smaller arc so the edges of the heel face fit tight and so you can do the final sanding for a great fit.
 
The main problem with Spanish heel is the tricky carving of the heel next to the sides. The more of that you can to before gluing in the sides, the better, though that's not how the Spanish do it.

As for bolt-on, why would anyone think that it's necessary to have the upper bout be flat at the neck joint? You just shape the face of the heel to match or actually make it a little bit of a smaller arc so the edges of the heel face fit tight and so you can do the final sanding for a great fit.

Rick,
That is how I do it now. I use the spindle sander to get some done then the edges by hand till its spot on. Just trying to get more done by a machine and not my hands but the more I think about it the more I see its just not possible. I was even thinking about making a solid wood body that can hold sand paper and some kind of jig that holds the neck so I can sand it easier, not even sure how that would look or work.
 
By far the smartest looking way to join the neck to body, if you're going to do them non-spanish heel style:

http://www.ukuleles.com/BuildingHowTo/neck2body.html

Not having a spare bandsaw, I'm trying to wrap my head around whether or not I could floss the neck heel with sand paper held taut on a frame.

I love it, Now I need a belt for my bandsaw, Thanks a bunch guys...This is going to save my hands..
 
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For fitting a neck to body, I cut a jig for the spindle sander. 2 pieces in the pics: the jig part on the left has a matching radius of the top of the uke, and that's clamped to the table with the edge of the sandpaper roll right in line with the arc. The second part of the jig has the opposite radius and the neck is secured to that with two tiny countersunk screws from the under side. Slide the jig up to the piece that's clamped down and slowly push the jig around the curve. The spindle sands that exact curve. And, if you use a neck angle, you can shim the peghead end to get the angle and curve in one pass. I think this method could work on a bandsaw as well, tho I haven't tried that yet.
 
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For fitting a neck to body, I cut a jig for the spindle sander. 2 pieces in the pics: the jig part on the left has a matching radius of the top of the uke, and that's clamped to the table with the edge of the sandpaper roll right in line with the arc. The second part of the jig has the opposite radius and the neck is secured to that with two tiny countersunk screws from the under side. Slide the jig up to the piece that's clamped down and slowly push the jig around the curve. The spindle sands that exact curve. And, if you use a neck angle, you can shim the peghead end to get the angle and curve in one pass. I think this method could work on a bandsaw as well, tho I haven't tried that yet.

WOW, I loved the bandsaw trick but I have all I need for that. I love that and I to will copy that...
 
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