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Dave-0
01-29-2013, 06:41 PM
I'm 4 weeks into this ukulele thing....enjoying every aspect of it. I really like the creativity piece, the physicality of trying to make my fingers do very specific things...and I especially dig the intellectual part - because along with learning chords, finger picking, strumming and learning where the notes are on the fretboard, I'm teaching myself to read music. I really want to be able to read music and not only play by tabs.

Do you guys read music?

didgeridoo2
01-29-2013, 07:13 PM
Where's the option for both?

Plainsong
01-29-2013, 07:23 PM
I kinda lied when I clicked Music. I'm not at all proficient reading music ... Playing a uke. But I hate tabs. I've just been lazy about really buckling down and learning what I need to, in order to sight read like I'm used to when I play other instruments or sing. I had to click Music because I've been reading it since I was in 3rd grade. When I try tabs, it's like I've been playing for only 3 hours total.

Rawks
01-29-2013, 08:09 PM
Tabs when I'm ukuleling. :)

Although I'm completely proficient in reading music, I haven't made myself learn the positions of notes on the fretboard yet. As long as I don't have to move up the neck, I might be able to get through some simple fingerpicking...

Had anyone had experience with the Ukulele in the Classroom books? I understand those are entirely in staff notation.

didgeridoo2
01-29-2013, 08:20 PM
Tabs when I'm ukuleling. :)

Although I'm completely proficient in reading music, I haven't made myself learn the positions of notes on the fretboard yet. As long as I don't have to move up the neck, I might be able to get through some simple fingerpicking...

Had anyone had experience with the Ukulele in the Classroom books? I understand those are entirely in staff notation.
We use the ukes in classroom books to teach music literacy so it's great for people who've not had that sort of training. For someone proficient in reading music, much of it could be redundant.

MountainUker
01-29-2013, 08:31 PM
I use a bit of both, mostly tabs though.

Skrik
01-29-2013, 08:40 PM
I read the original music notation: tablature. (This new-fangled staff notation will never go anywhere.)

PeteyHoudini
01-30-2013, 04:17 AM
I read music and tabs. Both have their purposes.

Reading sheet music on the uke is very useful for playing the melody of a song off the sheet music. That's a very useful skill to have. TAB is good for notating guitar solos and fingerpicking, etc… Sheet music is well suited for the piano.

I don't know why some complain about reading music so much: if you can count to 4 and say the letters A, B, C, D, E, F, G… and know where those letters are on the first 5 frets, that's basically it. hehe

I took my first guitar lesson at the age of 12 and I was afraid when my instructor was going to teach me to read music. The secret: Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge. Those are the names of the staff lines. After one or two lessons, I could read the notes on the staves. Piece of cake.

Petey

Lori
01-30-2013, 06:32 AM
I learned notation for guitar, but use tabs for everything else. Tabs actually give you more specific information about how to play the song. Many notes can be played in a variety of locations, and having specific information about the best fingering for that note (and the notes around it) is very helpful. On a piano, there is only one location possible for each note.

–Lori

SailQwest
01-30-2013, 06:40 AM
I'm not a fan of tabs and prefer standard notation. But chord sheets are my fave.

PeteyHoudini
01-30-2013, 06:43 AM
Tabs actually give you more specific information about how to play the song. Many notes can be played in a variety of locations, and having specific information about the best fingering for that note (and the notes around it) is very helpful. On a piano, there is only one location possible for each note.

–Lori
Totally agree!

Petey

Barbablanca
01-30-2013, 06:45 AM
The most difficult thing about reading sheet music is not the names of the notes, I agree with Peter that you can learn those fairly swiftly. But I still can't get the rhythm bit, no matter how many times I try. I pick up a sheet of music, try playing it on my fiddle and then, if I have access to it in a recorded version, find out that how I thought the tune went has very little to do with the tune as it should be played. Perhaps this is because I don't actually count in my head as I play; I just play! I find the counting interferes with my thought processes and threatens to make the most beautiful thing on the planet - making music - into one of the most dreaded: doing math! ;)

PeteyHoudini
01-30-2013, 07:21 AM
I took a number of years of classical piano lessons so I'm used it. You can use a metronome so you don't have to count, but counting is necessary in the learning process. Notes are great for getting the right melody line and you can then interpret it anyway you like rhythmically.

Going into a recording studio is a real eye opener for the amateur musician. You often play to a beat track and that is tricky to the newcomer. You're basically playing to a metronome even in pop music! ooh lala! hehe Peter

Barbablanca
01-30-2013, 07:29 AM
Yes, I remember when our band made our first album and we had to record to a metronome / electronic drum beat. It was a pain!

There was one song we varied the speed of between Verse & Chorus - it worked, live, so why not? But when we came to record it we had to subdivide it to fit a metronome pattern and it changed the whole feel of the thing and all because we had to keep in time with a mechanical contraption. Bah humbug! ;)

Ken Middleton
01-30-2013, 07:36 AM
Yes, as has been said, your question does not quite make sense (no offence meant). It is like asking "Do you drive a car or drink coffee?" . It is possible to do both. I read and write music and have done so all my life. But, I use tab extensively because it make campanella voicing easier to notate.

PeteyHoudini
01-30-2013, 07:40 AM
Yes, I remember when our band made our first album and we had to record to a metronome / electronic drum beat. It was a pain!

There was one song we varied the speed of between Verse & Chorus - it worked, live, so why not? But when we came to record it we had to subdivide it to fit a metronome pattern and it changed the whole feel of the thing and all because we had to keep in time with a mechanical contraption. Bah humbug! ;)
Timing changes are very tricky! Transitions must be thought up and the song recorded in parts. Though, would a solo flamenco guitar player record to a metronome? Not sure. Sometimes a recording live off the floor works.

Uncle Rod Higuchi
01-30-2013, 07:46 AM
As a Singer/Strummer I use Song Sheets (Chords and Lyrics) mostly.

Next would be TAB for the reasons mentioned above.

Haven't invested much effort in learning the fingerboard notation... yet :)

keep uke'in',

sukie
01-30-2013, 07:50 AM
Where's the option for both?

Excellent question. I can't answer, not the right choice. I do both.

Dave-0
01-30-2013, 07:52 AM
Yes, as has been said, your question does not quite make sense (no offence meant). It is like asking "Do you drive a car or drink coffee?" . It is possible to do both. I read and write music and have done so all my life. But, I use tab extensively because it make campanella voicing easier to notate.

No offense taken. I'm just wondering how experienced players approach playing the ukulele and thought I'd poll the group. I mean is my wanting to learn to read music simply overkill?...is it going to make me a "better" player (whatever 'better" means)?...is it going to enhance my musical journey? As I said, I'm really enjoying everything about learning and exploring the ukulele, the mental challenge notwithstanding. Luckily I've not been bitten by the UAS bug and continue to make my little Diamond Head work for me. I guess that's what really matters....right?

wallyboy
01-30-2013, 08:04 AM
i am new to uke and i am learning to read tab music at moment with the book i am learning from seems pretty easy, some things still throw me but i do research and try not to let it beat me, must say i am enjoying it, so you could say i read tab

Karasu
01-30-2013, 08:07 AM
I began classical piano early in life and did a minor in piano performance at the Eastman School of Music. I don't have any difficulty reading music, but I do think, as Lori stated, that tabs seem to give much more information as to the location on the neck where the appropriate notes are to be played. As has been mentioned, there's really no alternative way to play C4 on the piano!

That said, I would love to be as proficient at reading tabs AND standard music notation for uke as I am with piano scores.

Ken Middleton
01-30-2013, 08:21 AM
... I mean is my wanting to learn to read music simply overkill?...is it going to make me a "better" player (whatever 'better" means)?...is it going to enhance my musical journey? ...

Learning to read and understand music will open up wonderful opportunities that some other players don't get. An understanding of music will mean: never having to ask what the chord sequence to a song is, to be able to play along with a song you have never heard before, to write arrangements, etc. I just can't stress just how important it is.

pulelehua
01-30-2013, 08:26 AM
Playing by using tablature IS reading music. So, like a few others, I'm not totally won over by the question, though on slightly different grounds. :)

This gets discussed every once in a while. I personally find that tablature is very useful for ukulele, moreso than for guitar. There are lots of ways to play things on a ukulele, the essential difference being that you can play melodic ideas up the fretboard, or across the fretboard. Yes, you can do that on guitar, but on ukulele, you can do it more, as long as you're using re-entrant tuning. The effect of the latter is called campanella, and has a unique sound. Tablature ensures that the player employs the technique desired.

Mandarb
01-30-2013, 08:28 AM
....both...

FairyGodmartyr
01-30-2013, 09:01 AM
When I got my first ukulele, I started with TABS because that is what I saw online. When I started taking lessons, I quit TABS entirely. My teacher is VERY into music theory (I do very little actual playing during my lessons...we spend most of the time talking about building and manipulating chords). He sees TABS as "paint by numbers" And won't use it. Of course, I suppose standard notation is also painting by numbers if you don't take the time to learn the theory behind playing. Personally, though, I prefer reading standard notation since I am used to it from years of piano and trumpet when I was younger.

buddhuu
01-30-2013, 09:18 AM
I read music slowly. I read tab a little faster. My preference is to learn by ear; I find it quicker and more satisfactory in general.

Plainsong
01-30-2013, 09:21 AM
I read music slowly. I read tab a little faster. My preference is to learn by ear; I find it quicker and more satisfactory in general.

Ear Training is the second part of uni level theory courses. It's a butt-kicker to those who never do what you're doing. :)

Skrik
01-30-2013, 09:53 AM
I mean is my wanting to learn to read music simply overkill?...is it going to make me a "better" player (whatever 'better" means)?...is it going to enhance my musical journey?

Playing music is going to make you a better musician; reading notation (whichever you choose/ prefer) is simply a means to that end.

BIGDB
01-30-2013, 11:52 AM
I have learned all my songs by ear

PeteyHoudini
01-30-2013, 11:53 AM
Playing music is going to make you a better musician; reading notation (whichever you choose/ prefer) is simply a means to that end.
It's all money in the bank, like my piano teacher used to say after I went through scales upon scales. However, I would like to add that seeing a melody line on sheet music makes it REALLY to do CHORD SOLO arrangements! You just look for chords in your chord book that have the melody note on the 1st or 4th string and Voila! Whoops... I just gave away my secret to my uke arrangements... LOL

Petey

DaveVisi
01-30-2013, 11:57 AM
I learned notation for guitar, but use tabs for everything else. Tabs actually give you more specific information about how to play the song. Many notes can be played in a variety of locations, and having specific information about the best fingering for that note (and the notes around it) is very helpful. On a piano, there is only one location possible for each note.

–Lori
^ What she said

beatlloydy
01-30-2013, 12:23 PM
Music is a "horses for courses" thing. I am now 50 and could read music from 7...put any instrument in front of me and a music book and I can get a tune out of it..I may not be the best but I can play a lot of different instruments and understand theory etc fairly well.

Where I suck at is that I cannot remember much away from the page. This is extremely frustrating and I don't know if it has just been my memory being bad (always was like this) or bad training.

I have friends who cannot read a note but if we say lets jam in A or something similar they wil run rings around me musically...They can also more easily pick up a tune than I can.

If I had my time again I probably would not have so much reliance on reading music...sure, understand it and the theory but not rely on it 100%...I think it comes to playing in a school band with music in front of me from around 7 and always being reliant on that and the bandmaster.

Dave-0
01-30-2013, 12:29 PM
Thanks for the opinions...advice...words of wisdom. To a rank beginner, having you all people here is a HUGE resource.

beatlloydy
01-30-2013, 12:30 PM
Playing by using tablature IS reading music.

.

I have serious doubts that reading tabs is reading music...Sure, it is good and easy to do but in reality do you learn the note and its association with other notes, what is on/above the staff etc.

I am not knocking this approach as it is only a fairly recent addition (correct me if I am wrong but Tabs were not around to my knowledge 20+ years ago).

Nothing wrong with only being able to read tabs but this way you cannot translate that to any other instrument family apart from the strings (e.g Brass etc) whereas if you read music by the notes every instrument is at your feet (albeit you just need to learn the fingering involved in brass/woodwind/piano etc but that is entirely different as you still have to learn uke/guitar fingering separately to reading tabs).

Kem
01-30-2013, 12:35 PM
I can read music well, but when I play the uke, I do so by ear. I don't really like TAB; it does have a paint-by-numbers feel to me. I get a bit frustrated when I ask a guitarist to play a B, and she goes, "I don't know what that means." I do find that my knowledge of music theory comes in handy when I improvise; however, I prefer to figure the music out myself without having to read it off a page (though I'm certainly not averse to chord sheets, especially when the chords are kind of weird).

PeteyHoudini
01-30-2013, 01:12 PM
I love this thread! It's nice to see all these different opinions, etc... 8-)

Petey

Plainsong
01-30-2013, 01:22 PM
I can read music well, but when I play the uke, I do so by ear. I don't really like TAB; it does have a paint-by-numbers feel to me. I get a bit frustrated when I ask a guitarist to play a B, and she goes, "I don't know what that means." I do find that my knowledge of music theory comes in handy when I improvise; however, I prefer to figure the music out myself without having to read it off a page (though I'm certainly not averse to chord sheets, especially when the chords are kind of weird).

Especially when that player learned B as Bb and B natural as H. Good times when one of you is playing Bm7 and the other one is playing Bbm7.

sukie
01-30-2013, 01:27 PM
Standard notation usually makes it easier for me to understand the timing. I find some tabs aren't very good with that. Sometimes tabs aren't on the strict measure system as standard notation.
I'm personally not crazy about songs with just chords. If I don't know the song, the chords don't make much sense. Sometimes they are in the wrong place. I usually try to find an audio or video of said song to help.

PeteyHoudini
01-30-2013, 01:38 PM
Standard notation usually makes it easier for me to understand the timing. I find some tabs aren't very good with that. Sometimes tabs aren't on the strict measure system as standard notation.
I'm personally not crazy about songs with just chords. If I don't know the song, the chords don't make much sense. Sometimes they are in the wrong place. I usually try to find an audio or video of said song to help.
I agree totally with you. Thanks for mentioning those great points!!! 8-)

Well also... I think we might need to make a distinction here... there is:

1) Reading music for practising
2) Reading music for playing along (classical music "at times")

Petey

Plainsong
01-30-2013, 02:03 PM
But reading music is for all types of music, not just classical. Basically, training the ear is as important as training the eye. If you're able to do both of those, you can pick up sheet music without an instrument, without ever having heard the song, and be able to hear it in your mind's ear.


I agree totally with you. Thanks for mentioning those great points!!! 8-)

Well also... I think we might need to make a distinction here... there is:

1) Reading music for practising
2) Reading music for playing along (classical music "at times")

Petey

PeteyHoudini
01-30-2013, 02:16 PM
But reading music is for all types of music, not just classical.
You're right indeed, but I meant more reading the musical notation NOTE FOR NOTE and not just reading off lyrics and chord symbols like Uke groups do for pop and folk songs.

Orchestral works are so complex with so many players that reading from a score is how it's done. Moreover, it's important to know when one's part is coming up; since one doesn't play all the way through a long piece. An exception is for classical pianists who will almost always memorize their piano scores...

Plainsong
01-30-2013, 02:32 PM
You're right indeed, but I meant more reading the musical notation NOTE FOR NOTE and not just reading off lyrics and chord symbols like Uke groups do for pop and folk songs.

Orchestral works are so complex with so many players that reading from a score is how it's done. Moreover, it's important to know when one's part is coming up; since one doesn't play all the way through a long piece. An exception is for classical pianists who will almost always memorize their piano scores...

I kinda know that. I do have a degree in it. ;) But there's something to be gained from reading music for everyone. Not just the ensemble player.

Lori
01-30-2013, 03:06 PM
I have serious doubts that reading tabs is reading music...Sure, it is good and easy to do but in reality do you learn the note and its association with other notes, what is on/above the staff etc.

I am not knocking this approach as it is only a fairly recent addition (correct me if I am wrong but Tabs were not around to my knowledge 20+ years ago).



Check Wikipedia
Tablature is older than notation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablature

sukie
01-30-2013, 03:09 PM
Check Wikipedia
Tablature is older than notation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablature
Without looking at wiki, that makes sense that its older. I think it's easier to learn tabs. And learn from tabs.

Skrik
01-30-2013, 07:11 PM
I am not knocking this approach as it is only a fairly recent addition (correct me if I am wrong but Tabs were not around to my knowledge 20+ years ago).

Actually, tablature (for the lute) has been around since the Renaissance, long before staff notation was invented.

Plainsong
01-30-2013, 09:32 PM
Actually, tablature (for the lute) has been around since the Renaissance, long before staff notation was invented.

Music History up to 1750 wasn't my strongest class, and this was many years ago, but dont the origins of standard notation have their roots before the renaissance? I seem to remember that being the case.

pulelehua
01-30-2013, 09:47 PM
The Greeks and Romans had various systems for writing down music. Something akin to our use of letters for notes certainly dates back as far as the 6th century AD. I think we tend to think of "reading music" in a fairly narrow way. If what's written communicates to you what to play, then you are reading music. Different types of notation serve different purposes. Western notation can give very precise instructions, but some musical styles don't lend themselves to precise instructions. It doesn't mean that those styles aren't "music", or that using that notation doesn't involve "reading".

Pundabaya
01-30-2013, 10:44 PM
The way I see it, tabs are written in an instruments native language, so playing a song from a uke tab is like reading a book in your native language. Staff notation is like a lingua franca, but is like reading a book in a second language, you have to work to translate it to your native language. Whether you make that effort depends on the book I guess. To a lot of musicians, staff notation looks like a big book on tax law, in Russian.

At the end of the day, it's just a way of transmitting information from one musician to another, just like tab, Chord sheets, a note on a old bit of pizza box saying 'rhythm changes in C'. Ain't nothing more rock'n'roll than all your songs written on pizza-boxes.

drbekken
01-30-2013, 11:54 PM
Since I have an MA in music, with piano as my main instrument, I read music. However, I learn almost any new song by ear. I hardly ever play stuff from the paper anymore. Tabs are difficult for me, but I guess I could get used to them if I put in some effort.

anthonyg
01-31-2013, 12:20 AM
I've learn't to read, and then forgotten to read music several times. Its important to know the basics of music theory, and understanding scale tone chords helps a LOT but I don't need to be able to read music. When performing it NEEDS to be all in my head already.

Anthony

Wicked
01-31-2013, 02:08 AM
Standard notation usually makes it easier for me to understand the timing. I find some tabs aren't very good with.

Points for Sukie!

The main problem with tabs is their general lack of rhythmic information. What many people fail to grasp (many experienced musicians included) is that rythm is arguably more important than playing the "right" notes.

Let that sink in for a moment....

You can play all the right notes, but if the rythm is off, it will sound like hell. Coversely, you can play all the "wrong" notes with good rythm, and it can sound fantastic.

Sadly, we get so wrapped around the axle with things like scales, modes and music theory - and often neglect the single most important factor to sounding good. Just look at the number of books available to teach about selecting the "proper" pitch to play compared to the number of books about rythm. It's illogical.

Anyway.... I'll get down from the soap box now.

By the way.... Tabs were actually the first type of musical notation, historically speaking.

CountryMouse
01-31-2013, 02:39 AM
I didn't mark either because I don't know technically what tabs are. Do you mean the chords? I play that way. I can't sight-read music. I can figure out simple songs. But mostly I have to hear a song to learn it. And then I need the chords. Sometimes I can figure out chord progressions on some songs on my own. In other words, I play by ear, with the chords in front of me.

CountryMouse

23skidoo
01-31-2013, 02:44 AM
this is an interesting thread....... not much to add, but a few things I thought of as I was reading through-

Being able to read standard notation is fairly indispensable, I think, if you're going to play any sort of music at a high level with an ensemble using a variety of instruments. As Dr. Bekken points out, if you have time to learn the tune before hand, experienced musicians that play by ear or learn by other methods will have no problem, but I've talked to a handful of working session musicians over the years and gotten the impression that the ability to walk in and look at a standard nottion lead sheet for an unfamiliar tune and make immediate and practical sense of it is a professional necessity, regardless of your instrument. While most folks don't have this sort of professional obligation, I think if you're hoping to be able to sit in and play at a fairly high level with a group of experienced musicians, depending on the style of music, being able to read notation would be useful.

As Ken points out, though, tablature is really useful when indicating the particulars in how a piece is played. Having grown up playing from guitar tabs, though, there have been several times when I've learned a song from a professionally published tab sheet - even from those 'artist approved' books - and then seen a video of the artist performing the song live and found that they play it completely differently. In several cases, the way the artist played it was much more intuitive and efficient than the sheet I spent so much time memorizing. Looking at tabs (and chord sheets) available free online, it's been my experience that they're often a good starting point, but they are generally poorly formatted or flat out wrong. The better I get, the easier it is for me to spot these errors and move forward on my own, but for less experienced players, it can be a real hindrance.

I grew up playing saxophone and piano, so I read notation fairly well but it's only been the last couple of years that I've made an effort to learn the fretboard and start reading for stringed instruments. It's slow going but incredibly valuable, I think. A few ponts that haven't been mentioned yet..... first - lots of guitar notation contains specific information on left and right hand technique, just like tablature. Granted, it's not for every note, but it's often there for the hardest parts, or the sections that require a specific fingering or technique. Second - one of the things I like most about reading from notation is the ability to be creative. With guitar and ukulele, there are so many ways to play any given series of notes, allowing you to make the choice of how and where you want to play them. The more familiar I get with reading for these instruments, the easier it is to make these decisions on the fly. I'm certainly no expert at this point, but I think reading new music and trying to play it in a variety of ways is one of the most valuable things I do in my practice routine. It's really opening up the fretboard and helping me to be more expressive when I'm playing by ear or from memory.

I've made the decision over the last few years to try and become a more serious musician. It's not like I'm trying to be a rock star or anything, but I would like to be able to play at a 'professional' level. I wish I'd started at 17 instead of 38, but I think learning to read for ukulele and guitar is going to be one of the most efficient and beneficial (in the long run) ways of achieving this.

Dougf
01-31-2013, 03:42 AM
Speaking of sheet music, anybody check out Beck's "Song Reader"? I'd like to see some uke interpretations.

http://songreader.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_Reader

23skidoo
01-31-2013, 04:54 AM
Speaking of sheet music, anybody check out Beck's "Song Reader"? I'd like to see some uke interpretations.

http://songreader.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_Reader

What an interesting idea..... I love Beck's records and he's a good songwriter, I think. I just clicked on the "Log In And Donwload 'Old Shanghai' " link and got the free sheet for that tune. It's regular piano/vocal notation with ukulele chord diagrams like the old pop music sheets from the 20's and 30's..... pretty nifty.....

pulelehua
01-31-2013, 04:58 AM
Tabs were not necessarily the oldest form of written music. The simple truth, like most things about ancient music, is that we don't know. We don't know what it sounded like, cos we don't know how they tuned, or exactly what they meant by the things we have inherited as modes. We have some examples of ancient versions of notation, graphical notation and tablature, but we don't know how it worked.

In the very oldest civilisations, such as the Chinese, Egyptians, Sumerians and Hittites, they certainly had music. Their systems were likely passed on to other nearby civilisations. We simply don't know what they were.

Into the early Middle Ages, we have evidence of notation, but we don't know how it worked. It shows melodic contours. It looks a bit like our notation, but we don't know what the rules were. By the 15th century, you see things that look like notation, with clefs and different shaped notes. But what we consider "our" system of notation didn't really emerge fully until the 18th century.

Just think we can be a bit quick to claim what we know historically. What we don't know far outweighs what we do about early music.

Plainsong
01-31-2013, 05:15 AM
That Idea that a note can be fingered in more than one way... That's because you played wind instruments, and you know that there are all sorts of alternate fingerings. Someone coming from just piano has no idea that that's the case.

There's all sorts of misconceptions about reading music and its history in this thread. It's maybe not so much a mystery as it seems though. :) I think you need both the ears and the eyes. And as an old band director said, if you can't sing it, you can't play it.

Good for you for taking the bull by the horns. Learning as much as we can, only makes us better.





this is an interesting thread....... not much to add, but a few things I thought of as I was reading through-

Being able to read standard notation is fairly indispensable, I think, if you're going to play any sort of music at a high level with an ensemble using a variety of instruments. As Dr. Bekken points out, if you have time to learn the tune before hand, experienced musicians that play by ear or learn by other methods will have no problem, but I've talked to a handful of working session musicians over the years and gotten the impression that the ability to walk in and look at a standard nottion lead sheet for an unfamiliar tune and make immediate and practical sense of it is a professional necessity, regardless of your instrument. While most folks don't have this sort of professional obligation, I think if you're hoping to be able to sit in and play at a fairly high level with a group of experienced musicians, depending on the style of music, being able to read notation would be useful.

As Ken points out, though, tablature is really useful when indicating the particulars in how a piece is played. Having grown up playing from guitar tabs, though, there have been several times when I've learned a song from a professionally published tab sheet - even from those 'artist approved' books - and then seen a video of the artist performing the song live and found that they play it completely differently. In several cases, the way the artist played it was much more intuitive and efficient than the sheet I spent so much time memorizing. Looking at tabs (and chord sheets) available free online, it's been my experience that they're often a good starting point, but they are generally poorly formatted or flat out wrong. The better I get, the easier it is for me to spot these errors and move forward on my own, but for less experienced players, it can be a real hindrance.

I grew up playing saxophone and piano, so I read notation fairly well but it's only been the last couple of years that I've made an effort to learn the fretboard and start reading for stringed instruments. It's slow going but incredibly valuable, I think. A few ponts that haven't been mentioned yet..... first - lots of guitar notation contains specific information on left and right hand technique, just like tablature. Granted, it's not for every note, but it's often there for the hardest parts, or the sections that require a specific fingering or technique. Second - one of the things I like most about reading from notation is the ability to be creative. With guitar and ukulele, there are so many ways to play any given series of notes, allowing you to make the choice of how and where you want to play them. The more familiar I get with reading for these instruments, the easier it is to make these decisions on the fly. I'm certainly no expert at this point, but I think reading new music and trying to play it in a variety of ways is one of the most valuable things I do in my practice routine. It's really opening up the fretboard and helping me to be more expressive when I'm playing by ear or from memory.

I've made the decision over the last few years to try and become a more serious musician. It's not like I'm trying to be a rock star or anything, but I would like to be able to play at a 'professional' level. I wish I'd started at 17 instead of 38, but I think learning to read for ukulele and guitar is going to be one of the most efficient and beneficial (in the long run) ways of achieving this.

Wicked
01-31-2013, 05:26 AM
My understanding is that the Hurrian Songs (1400 BC) are the earliest substantial musical notation, and used specific strings and intervals between strings (not intervals between pitches).... essentially tabs for lyres.

Greek notation from around 200 BC uses letter names for specific pitches (Seikilos Epitaph).

Tabs - more or less as we know them today - were first seen around 1300 AD - initially for the orgna, then later for the lute.

Guido of Arezzo is generally considerred the inventor of the musical staff in 1025 AD, but notation for fixed note lengths/rythm did not really appear until the 14th Century, and musical notation, as we know it, didn't really solidify until the 17th Century.

I think that the Hurrian Songs "tab" sort of trumps everything else by a god millenium or so......... solely based on the existing evidence. That could change, of course.

pulelehua
01-31-2013, 05:41 AM
My understanding is that the Hurrian Songs (1400 BC) are the earliest substantial musical notation, and used specific strings and intervals between strings (not intervals between pitches).... essentially tabs for lyres.

Greek notation from around 200 BC uses letter names for specific pitches (Seikilos Epitaph).

Tabs - more or less as we know them today - were first seen around 1300 AD - initially for the orgna, then later for the lute.

Guido of Arezzo is generally considerred the inventor of the musical staff in 1025 AD, but notation for fixed note lengths/rythm did not really appear until the 14th Century, and musical notation, as we know it, didn't really solidify until the 17th Century.

I think that the Hurrian Songs "tab" sort of trumps everything else by a god millenium or so......... solely based on the existing evidence. That could change, of course.

That's a tricky one. Does harp music tell you which note to play, or which string to play? Well, of course they're the same thing. And again, with the Hurrian tablets, we're making best guesses. We don't know if there is rhythmic information spelled out or even implied. I'm not sure calling them "tabs" is really accurate. But I'm not at all an expert. Do you have a source for finding out more? I'd be interested. I try to be an ancient music geek, but it's hard. ;)

Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can share.

nighthunte29
01-31-2013, 05:48 AM
I can read music, but for me it is much easier to read tabs as it takes me a while to work out what the notes are on each fret. However if I had a choice I would read with music on top and tabs on the bottom as there are some things in music I find that tabs can't show!

Wicked
01-31-2013, 06:02 AM
Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can share.

Ha! My wisdom meter is on "Empty." But you have inspired me to dig deeper.... I'll let you know what I find.

pulelehua
01-31-2013, 06:02 AM
I can read music, but for me it is much easier to read tabs as it takes me a while to work out what the notes are on each fret. However if I had a choice I would read with music on top and tabs on the bottom as there are some things in music I find that tabs can't show!

Does anyone have much music that doesn't have both? All the bought music I have (I think) has both notation and tab, so I usually use the tab for the fingering and the notation for the rhythm. Though some tab is pretty decent at showing rhythm.

nighthunte29
01-31-2013, 07:24 AM
Does anyone have much music that doesn't have both? All the bought music I have (I think) has both notation and tab, so I usually use the tab for the fingering and the notation for the rhythm. Though some tab is pretty decent at showing rhythm.

I agree, most of the material I have printed has both, but while looking online for certain songs, it is often in tab form!

sukie
01-31-2013, 07:30 AM
I can read music, but for me it is much easier to read tabs as it takes me a while to work out what the notes are on each fret. However if I had a choice I would read with music on top and tabs on the bottom as there are some things in music I find that tabs can't show!

This is my preference, too. Too bad it isn't all written out that way. Dang!

Youkalaylee
01-31-2013, 08:39 AM
I haven't voted because I can read both. I taught myself to play the recorder and to read sheet music to play songs I liked when I was about 6 years old, then went on to other instruments. I played electric guitar for a while too so tab was familiar before I started on the uke. I think the longest I've been without an instrument is 2 years.

PeteyHoudini
01-31-2013, 10:19 AM
I have the first 5 Led Zeppelin albums in sheet music and tab! I like having both.

Petey

CT Jeromy
01-31-2013, 11:59 AM
So I just started a thread under ukulele tabs and chords called High Quality Tabs. I'm beginning to make tabs with the chords, lyrics, melody tab, and musical score. It should help reading music. Check it out.

Jeromy


I'm 4 weeks into this ukulele thing....enjoying every aspect of it. I really like the creativity piece, the physicality of trying to make my fingers do very specific things...and I especially dig the intellectual part - because along with learning chords, finger picking, strumming and learning where the notes are on the fretboard, I'm teaching myself to read music. I really want to be able to read music and not only play by tabs.

Do you guys read music?

Tootler
01-31-2013, 01:28 PM
Does anyone have much music that doesn't have both? All the bought music I have (I think) has both notation and tab, so I usually use the tab for the fingering and the notation for the rhythm. Though some tab is pretty decent at showing rhythm.

None of my written music has tab. That's because I've been playing other instruments, mainly recorder, much longer than ukulele and I am familiar with staff notation, so I don't find tab helpful at all. OTOH, lead sheets with notation and chords are fine for me and I am quite happy to learn songs from lyric sheets with chords in.

Although I mostly play recorder from written notation, I learn songs by ear and also play harmonica by ear, so I do a bit of both.

Although tab is useful for telling you where to put your fingers, it doesn't give much information on rhythm or not duration whereas notation gives all of that. That said to really get the feel of how to play a piece, you need to hear it as even staff notation does not convey the subtleties of interpreting a piece of music.

Plainsong
01-31-2013, 02:30 PM
Yeah, bunch of music books for voice, clarinet, bass and alto, alto sax (yuck), recorder, piano, etc., and NOT ONE of them ever needed freaking tabs. Hate them. They are paint by numbers and a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I'm really frustrated at myself for not doing more to correct the music reading on uke problem.

itsme
01-31-2013, 03:19 PM
I read standard notation just fine on classical guitar. I read bari from standard, and sometimes I read low G uke from standard as if it were a bari. But for the most part I play uke from tabs.

I much prefer versions that have both tab and standard, or at least where the tab has indications of duration. I abhor ASCII (plain text) tabs.


That said to really get the feel of how to play a piece, you need to hear it as even staff notation does not convey the subtleties of interpreting a piece of music.
I disagree. What you hear when you listen to someone else's performance/recording is THEIR interpretation. There can be many ways to interpret a piece. None is the be-all/end-all or the only "correct" way to play a piece.

"All Along the Watchtower - Bob Dylan vs. Jimi Hendrix

"Weeps" - Jake vs. the Beatles

etc., etc.

Plainsong
01-31-2013, 03:36 PM
I disagree. What you hear when you listen to someone else's performance/recording is THEIR interpretation. There can be many ways to interpret a piece. None is the be-all/end-all or the only "correct" way to play a piece.

"All Along the Watchtower - Bob Dylan vs. Jimi Hendrix

"Weeps" - Jake vs. the Beatles

etc., etc.

Yes. This. I can think of some Mozart pieces that "You're supposed to X even though it's not notated" - then notate it! That's a weird music tradition there with those pieces and one that isn't usually repeated. If you come across sheet music of a favorite song, and you realize that it's not what is actually being played.... it's the fault of the arranger really, wanting to make it easier for people.

Watchtower... between Hendrix and Dylan.... I'll take Bear McCreary's version. Seriously, it trumps them all. ;)

I mean, the ears and eyes are both just about equally important, but you should be able to rely on hearing it correctly in your mind's ear without having heard it before. That last part just comes from lots of practice.

itsme
01-31-2013, 05:03 PM
Yes. This. I can think of some Mozart pieces that "You're supposed to X even though it's not notated" - then notate it! That's a weird music tradition there with those pieces and one that isn't usually repeated. If you come across sheet music of a favorite song, and you realize that it's not what is actually being played.... it's the fault of the arranger really, wanting to make it easier for people.

Watchtower... between Hendrix and Dylan.... I'll take Bear McCreary's version. Seriously, it trumps them all. ;)

I mean, the ears and eyes are both just about equally important, but you should be able to rely on hearing it correctly in your mind's ear without having heard it before. That last part just comes from lots of practice.
One of the joys of being able to read standard notation is discovering things you've never heard before. Sometimes that's because there aren't any/many/popular recordings you're likely to have encountered. It gives a real freedom because you aren't trying to live up to what anyone else has done with it.

I discovered a rather obscure baroque composer I decided I really liked... Brescianello. I spent many happy hours playing his pieces on guitar. When I finally found a CD of his works by a known player, I was sorely disappointed because everything seemed overly ornamented to me, and HIS INTERPRETATION kinda ruined it for me. Had this been my sole introduction to this composer, I would have passed, thinking I didn't like it at all.

I've not heard of Bear McCreary before, but I will check him out. :)

I can see the notes on the page and mostly hear it in my head, even with a new tune. I'm getting better about mentally hearing the notes just looking at tab, but it's not as easy as standard notation, especially when re-entrant tuning is involved.

Plainsong
01-31-2013, 05:18 PM
Here ya go!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RqYwOTJK-4

Dave-0
01-31-2013, 06:01 PM
Wow.....I love how this thread has evolved from a simple query to a discussion regarding the history of music notation!

All you experienced musicians have no idea how much I'm enjoying this discussion!

Thanks!

itsme
01-31-2013, 07:17 PM
Here ya go!
Thanks! I enjoyed his version a lot. :)

Plainsong
01-31-2013, 07:26 PM
Thanks! I enjoyed his version a lot. :)

Yeah not exactly as great a mix as on the album, but that little hook he came up with became central to the plot of the show. He just got told to use Watchtower and BSG-it up. One of my favorite composers past or present, really. He was the one over by the keyboards. His brother on vocals, and most of Oingo Boingo on the stage behind him.

Barbablanca
01-31-2013, 10:40 PM
I can't draw to save my life, but I'm not a bad puppet maker (3D is my thing). Having said that I know people who are great with a pencil and paper who can't make diddly-squat out of plasticine.

What I'm getting at here is that Tab serves a hell of a lot of people who, for some reason or other, find standard music notation as baffling as Egyptian hieroglyphics. It does not seem right to me that those who can read music here are looking down their noses at us tab readers. We all have different skills. I can't do Mathematics, but I speak six languages more or less fluently. I am a mediocre musician who stands in awe of the Aldrines and Jakes of this world. But maybe they can't handle a skill I am quite good at - maybe Aldrine can't write lyrics and Jake can't cook ;)

What I'm saying is that having a particular skill doesn't necessarily make people superior to one another, it simply means they all have different areas in which they excel.

Let's celebrate the diversity of the UU panorama and not divide into cliques proclaiming "2D Good, 3D Bad" or "Sheet Music is for the Intelligent, Tabs are for Morons!" - UU celebrates diversity in so many other ways (skill levels, country of origin, types of Uke, etc) let's keep it that way!

consitter
01-31-2013, 11:00 PM
I'm not a fan of tabs and prefer standard notation. But chord sheets are my fave.

This is me. I prefer chord sheets simply because I don't understand tabs.

Pundabaya
01-31-2013, 11:20 PM
Personally I find chord sheets the most useful. I like chord progressions, I really don't 'do' melody much. Tab is useful for working out stuff but its more of a learning aid, for those little fun bits and bobs.

Staff notation- if I really wanted to, I could sit down with a song done in notation, and work out how to play it. It'd take hours, but I could do it. Would have to be a) a hell of a song, and b) one that isn't available in other forms.

CountryMouse
02-01-2013, 02:38 AM
I can't draw to save my life, but I'm not a bad puppet maker (3D is my thing). Having said that I know people who are great with a pencil and paper who can't make diddly-squat out of plasticine.

What I'm getting at here is that Tab serves a hell of a lot of people who, for some reason or other, find standard music notation as baffling as Egyptian hieroglyphics. It does not seem right to me that those who can read music here are looking down their noses at us tab readers. We all have different skills. I can't do Mathematics, but I speak six languages more or less fluently. I am a mediocre musician who stands in awe of the Aldrines and Jakes of this world. But maybe they can't handle a skill I am quite good at - maybe Aldrine can't write lyrics and Jake can't cook ;)

What I'm saying is that having a particular skill doesn't necessarily make people superior to one another, it simply means they all have different areas in which they excel.

Let's celebrate the diversity of the UU panorama and not divide into cliques proclaiming "2D Good, 3D Bad" or "Sheet Music is for the Intelligent, Tabs are for Morons!" - UU celebrates diversity in so many other ways (skill levels, country of origin, types of Uke, etc) let's keep it that way!

Thanks for this. And then there are those of us who never intend to be professional musicians and only play and sing as a hobby who can't read either type of notation but play by ear. I have to remember when people ask me on YouTube, "What are the chords for that?" or "Could you do a tutorial for that song?" that they are not like me and it didn't just pop into their heads what the chords were. I mean, I think I have all the chords figured out for a simplistic version of "Ave Maria", but I don't even know some of the chord names. So most everything I do is by ear. Okay, yes, and chords from books or online. But sight-reading music or tabs? I can't.

CountryMouse

Dougf
02-01-2013, 03:56 AM
Do you guys read music?

Tabs and standard notation are both "read", and are just two of perhaps hundreds of musical notation systems. In the U.S. alone, about 90 patents have been issued on new notation systems.

I once heard on NPR about a guy who could "read" the grooves on classical vinyl records, and without seeing the label, could tell you the composer and symphony.

sukie
02-01-2013, 04:18 AM
This is me. I prefer chord sheets simply because I don't understand tabs.

I am just quoting this because of what is written. It has nothing to do with the poster. And it made me think of a question.

Background: I only play songs with chords when I am at ukulele group. I don't sing so my personal ukulele life is fingerpicking only.

Here's the question (s)--
Aren't tabs just for fingerpicking? I mean, yes, in some tabs you do usually strum some chords but....

If you are a strummer why would you be using tab?

I will say that in the just shy of 5 years I have been playing, there is a TON more ukulele music available. It used to be hard to find very much for ukulele. Now it's easy to find just about any song you would want. Which is really awesome.

Ken Middleton
02-01-2013, 05:07 AM
Aren't tabs just for fingerpicking?

The problem, Sukie, is that people (some of whom know better) insist on calling a chord sequence "tabs". This makes things very confusing. The word "tab" is short for tablature, a very old notation system used extensively for notating the music for older stringed instruments like the lute.

I get particularly irritated when people write as a YT comment something like: "tabs?". What do they mean? If they mean will I work for hours doing an arrangement in tablature of some pop song especially for them, then the answer will always be "no". If they mean, "I really enjoyed your video, may I have the chords, please?", then maybe. However, with just about any popular song, all you have to do is enter into Google the word "chords" and the song title and press enter. Pick the top one and you have your chords. The whole process takes about 15 seconds.

sukie
02-01-2013, 05:26 AM
Thanks for clearing that up, Ken. That makes sense.

I sure hope nobody has felt that I was being snotty in any of my posts. That would never be my intention. I'm just curious sometimes.

Plainsong
02-01-2013, 06:11 AM
Hey, tabs are dumb. BUT, it's just the tabs that are dumb. If it works for someone, I'm not going to look down my nose at them. I don't have the patience for tabs - so more power to you if you do have the patience for them, ya know?

I think that just because some of us don't see the point of tabs, either in this thread or the teachers mentioned.... you're putting too much baggage on it. I'm not looking down on you, and I seriously doubt anyone else is either.


I can't draw to save my life, but I'm not a bad puppet maker (3D is my thing). Having said that I know people who are great with a pencil and paper who can't make diddly-squat out of plasticine.

What I'm getting at here is that Tab serves a hell of a lot of people who, for some reason or other, find standard music notation as baffling as Egyptian hieroglyphics. It does not seem right to me that those who can read music here are looking down their noses at us tab readers. We all have different skills. I can't do Mathematics, but I speak six languages more or less fluently. I am a mediocre musician who stands in awe of the Aldrines and Jakes of this world. But maybe they can't handle a skill I am quite good at - maybe Aldrine can't write lyrics and Jake can't cook ;)

What I'm saying is that having a particular skill doesn't necessarily make people superior to one another, it simply means they all have different areas in which they excel.

Let's celebrate the diversity of the UU panorama and not divide into cliques proclaiming "2D Good, 3D Bad" or "Sheet Music is for the Intelligent, Tabs are for Morons!" - UU celebrates diversity in so many other ways (skill levels, country of origin, types of Uke, etc) let's keep it that way!

Wicked
02-01-2013, 06:20 AM
Personally, I look down on everyone - but it has nothing to do with tabs. I'm just a jerk.

PeteyHoudini
02-01-2013, 06:24 AM
I get particularly irritated when people write as a YT comment something like: "tabs?". What do they mean? If they mean will I work for hours doing an arrangement in tablature of some pop song especially for them, then the answer will always be "no". If they mean, "I really enjoyed your video, may I have the chords, please?", then maybe.
Good point!

Petey

sukie
02-01-2013, 06:44 AM
Personally, I look down on everyone - but it has nothing to do with tabs. I'm just a jerk.

Or maybe tall?

wayfarer75
02-01-2013, 06:44 AM
I can read music, but I use tabs for the ukulele. Tabs were a little hard for me to figure out at first, actually; I'm much more used to reading music.

BlueLatitude
02-01-2013, 07:03 AM
I can read but I prefer tabs for uke. I don't know the fretboard yet, though I'm working on it, and in the meantime tabs let me play stuff that I wouldn't be able to otherwise. Yay for John Hill's classical book and also Rob McKillop, Pekole, and Daniel Ho's work.

Tabs might be dumb, I might be dumb for needing them, but who cares? They're easy and fun and open a world to a lot of people who might otherwise not be playing at all.

23skidoo
02-01-2013, 07:12 AM
Hey, tabs are dumb.

I disagree. I think it's an incredibly convenient way to convey essential information in a very common sense way. It may not offer all the nuance available with standard notation in its typical form, but I've seen professionally printed tablature just as rich and detailed as anything printed on a staff. The tablature most of us are used to seeing is put together quickly or by amateurs, but it usually gets the bulk of the intended information across in a very efficient way that almost anyone, with a minimal amount of effort, can understand.

I've been working on reading for stringed instruments very diligently for well over a year and it still takes me a great deal of time to work through even a relatively simple piece of music. I could sit down with the same piece of music presented as quality tablature and sight read it. Granted, I've been using tablature for years, but this was a skill I developed in relatively short order - much more quickly than I'm picking up sight reading notation for guitar/ukulele, and I went into it already knowing how to read music very well. Tablature is much easier to read than standard notation, for almost everyone.


I don't have the patience for tabs - so more power to you if you do have the patience for them, ya know?


But can you read music and play it on the ukulele? Quickly? I'm not being belligerent or challenging you at all. I'm just curious if you're just a strummer or if you try to play the sort of music that most folks on UU use tablature to learn.


If it works for someone, I'm not going to look down my nose at them.

It doesn't sound that way to me. I guess you're just being flippant, but some of your language could be taken the wrong way. The vast majority of the folks on this forum use 'dumb' tabs to learn songs.

pulelehua
02-01-2013, 07:21 AM
Yeah, bunch of music books for voice, clarinet, bass and alto, alto sax (yuck), recorder, piano, etc., and NOT ONE of them ever needed freaking tabs. Hate them. They are paint by numbers and a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I'm really frustrated at myself for not doing more to correct the music reading on uke problem.


I was just referring to ukulele music. Sorry. Thought that was... er... clear.

Guess I'll go back to my painting by numbers now. <shuffles off to find his large-print music books>

Plainsong
02-01-2013, 08:39 AM
Not on the uke, no. And that's completely 100% my own fault.

But I CAN sightread, just pick up and play the song without delay with: Voice, clarinet, alto and bass clarinet, alto sax, alto recorder, mellophone, and piano if the left hand isn't too difficult. I played at the professional level with vocals and clarinet. So yes, sight-reading is a must. I'm not going to sit here and say I never played a wrong note, or didn't realize when I did something wrong, but it's just normal.


I disagree. I think it's an incredibly convenient way to convey essential information in a very common sense way. It may not offer all the nuance available with standard notation in its typical form, but I've seen professionally printed tablature just as rich and detailed as anything printed on a staff. The tablature most of us are used to seeing is put together quickly or by amateurs, but it usually gets the bulk of the intended information across in a very efficient way that almost anyone, with a minimal amount of effort, can understand.

I've been working on reading for stringed instruments very diligently for well over a year and it still takes me a great deal of time to work through even a relatively simple piece of music. I could sit down with the same piece of music presented as quality tablature and sight read it. Granted, I've been using tablature for years, but this was a skill I developed in relatively short order - much more quickly than I'm picking up sight reading notation for guitar/ukulele, and I went into it already knowing how to read music very well. Tablature is much easier to read than standard notation, for almost everyone.



But can you read music and play it on the ukulele? Quickly? I'm not being belligerent or challenging you at all. I'm just curious if you're just a strummer or if you try to play the sort of music that most folks on UU use tablature to learn.



It doesn't sound that way to me. I guess you're just being flippant, but some of your language could be taken the wrong way. The vast majority of the folks on this forum use 'dumb' tabs to learn songs.

23skidoo
02-01-2013, 08:54 AM
Not on the uke, no. And that's completely 100% my own fault.

But I CAN sightread, just pick up and play the song without delay with: Voice, clarinet, alto and bass clarinet, alto sax, alto recorder, mellophone, and piano if the left hand isn't too difficult. I played at the professional level with vocals and clarinet. So yes, sight-reading is a must. I'm not going to sit here and say I never played a wrong note, or didn't realize when I did something wrong, but it's just normal.

I wasn't being critical or trying to question your chops, on ukulele or any other instrument. You obviously know a lot about music. There's no fault in not knowing how to sightread for ukulele unless you think there is.

I don't think reading is a must unless you want it to be. This whole discussion started when the OP asked if their was any utility in learning to read music and we've seen the spectrum of answers based on what folks want and need out of playing the ukulele. Sorry, folks - didn't mean to bring any negativity into the discussion....

Plainsong
02-01-2013, 09:12 AM
I don't think anyone is a less than musician for not reading music. In a perfect world, the ear and the eye are as important. But in reality, people play by ear play circles around me. And then there are those I play circles around. Ya know, I was trying to explain the circle of fifths to my play-by-ear husband, who plays lots of things. His eyes glazed over. But he uses it all the time. He just doesn't know he does. His knowledge is different, but he plays circles around me.

It becomes crucial in the professional environment. I've seen great musicians humbled in a professional setting where they couldn't sight read and everyone else could. That's where it's really an obstacle to not know it. That's what what I meant.

And I do think it's frustrating to not do it on the instrument I play the most and prefer. I love finding a piece of music, and picking it up and working through it. :)

I think less of no one who just does tabs. Like I said, I can't, so more power to em. If it was a jamming situation, we'd both be bringing different "superpowers." :)


I wasn't being critical or trying to question your chops, on ukulele or any other instrument. You obviously know a lot about music. There's no fault in not knowing how to sightread for ukulele unless you think there is.

I don't think reading is a must unless you want it to be. This whole discussion started when the OP asked if their was any utility in learning to read music and we've seen the spectrum of answers based on what folks want and need out of playing the ukulele. Sorry, folks - didn't mean to bring any negativity into the discussion....

DaleR
02-03-2013, 08:35 AM
I can do both but use neither with my folk instruments. I prefer by ear, the auld way. My tuba however......:rofl:

tomthebaptist
02-06-2013, 05:00 PM
I can read both. However, I play by ear mostly when playing the ukulele.