How can i improve the sustain of my home built banjolele?

banjolelebsi

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Hi all

I have finished my 2nd diy banjolele and i am happy with its sound and playability. 198_0889.jpg

I would like to ask how i can improve its sustain. I attach the neck to the body using 6mm threaded rod.(i use an 8 inch animal skin drum for the body).

If i used a wooden dowel stick would this improve sustain? I listen to clips on you tube of the flea firefly and it seems to have great sustain.

Also my bridge is about 10mm high, this gives me a 2.7mm action at the 12th fret and is quite effortless to play at the nut. Does the height of the bridge make a difference to the sustain?

Thanks for all input.

Cheers

Simon
 
I know some builders that have put weight in the headstock to create sustain. You might try taping some lead fishing weights on and seeing how that works. If it does work, you can melt the lead, drill holes in to the headstock then pour it in.
 
Do banjo ukes generally have much sustain? I've never played one.
 
Many classical guitar players describe the tone of Smallman guitars as banjo-like, but they do sustain well. For your banjolele, a heavier bridge will do the trick at the expense of volume.
 
Lots of good advice so far... If you try the lead weight thing, please post results.

So, Remo head (Renaissance), tighter head, heavier bridge, and some strings require more tension than others- tighter strings will also improve sustain.

I have also heard that the more "solid" your tailpiece is connected to the pot, as well as the "stiffer/more rigid" your tailpiece is will improve sustain. But I usually go as solid and rigid as possible (okay, now would be a good time to chuckle like an adolescent) and have never been inclined to to make less solid/rigid to hear the difference. So I can't swear by this last bit, but it does seem reasonable.

Finally, are using anything to act as a tone ring, or does the head ride directly on the wooden rim of the drum? (Go to banjo hangout for threads about wooden tone rings that will remind you of threads about bracing on this forum ;). ). Anything that minimizes the area that the head contacts the rim could help with sustain, and IMHO using metal, particularly bronze or brass, at the contact point between head and pot will not only brighten the tone, but may help with sustain.
 
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A skin head is not going to sustain much. Most clawhammer players even stuff the back with a sock to shorten the sustain further. To get the most sustain, like a bluegrass banjo, you will need a plastic head, the thinner the better, and it needs to be very tight. A tone ring of some type will also help.
 
Thanks for all the advice. Would it be possible to fit one of these to my 8 inch hand drum?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Emperor-C...258&pid=100033&prg=1011&rk=1&sd=380433749959&

Probably, but why would you want to? If you want a plastic banjo uke head buy a Remo head. But if you have installed the calfskin head correctly then it will be hard to get a better banjo uke sound than that. Calf skin has been used since banjo ukes where invented, and for good reason. Remo heads are fine but I find the sound quite scratchy.
 
Thanks for all the advice. Would it be possible to fit one of these to my 8 inch hand drum?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Emperor-C...258&pid=100033&prg=1011&rk=1&sd=380433749959&
I would hate to say yes and have you waste your money. That being said, it looks in your photo like the hand drum uses a tension hoop and tensioning hooks to tighten the head, so yes, you should be able to swap out the head pretty easily.
The very first banjo ukulele I made used a drum a lot like that. I always wished the j-hooks were a little beefier and that there were more of them. Then I thought I'd swap out the head (from calfskin to something brighter) and that's when I discovered how dumb I am capable of being sometimes... My fretboard extended over the tension hoop, almost touching the drum head, and definitely too far to be able to take off the tension hoop. I had trapped it under the fretboard. I had to remove the neck to change the drum head. Ha ha. Then I unbolted the neck again to change it back. It's got a sweet plunky sound that I think fits the instrument. The g and a strings actually have a pretty good ring, but the c carries a lot of "plunk". I have worked on tone (and reasonable fretboard length!) in subsequent builds, but that one is what it is, and I still love to play it.
 
Speaking of banjo (ukulele) heads, I've always wondered about the expression about there being more than one way to skin a cat.... What else has anyone ever skinned a cat for, anyway. ;)
 
On my recent DIY banjo uke I noticed a big improvement in sustain when I perfected the neck heel to drum fit.
 
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I wouldn't casually reply to an old thread, except mr roper recently added something to it, which seems justified since it's very specialized experiencial info he added. I didn't notice the original post date before I started writing, so I put quite a bit of thought into this reply, and here it is:

Some great advice so far, /\mr roper's sounds like valuable experience.
Check this out:
Sustain is related directly to two things:
1.The amount of energy (vibration) transferred from the strings to the body.
Less transfer = more sustain, as well as less volume/resonation/projection from the body.
More transfer = less sustain, more volume/resonation/projection.
2. The stiffness of construction.
Something stiff rings like a bell whereas something soft can be used to absorb sound. But you want the right amount for the instrument to be playable. You can't play most bells by hand, they're too hard. So drumskins are softer.

And the How:

For #1:
How can you reduce energy transfer and convert it into sustain? (it'd be easy to pad it, but that just eats sound, there'd be no gain in sustain)
-By adding mass (weight) to the body surface, so it vibrates less easily, and/or by adding mass to the interface between the strings and the body, i.e. bridge and/or saddle. Mass creates resistance by being hard to move. It's inertia. Even heavier strings vibrate longer, but they're harder to pluck and sound deeper.

The challenge with increasing banjo sustain, is that it's designed to favor volume and projection over sustain, so the body is a thin skin.
This is why people are advising you replace the bridge with a heavier one, and/or even weighting it. This will deepen the tone, so be prepared for that.
The indian tabla drum uses a similar concept to achieve it's deep tone. The black spot on the drum is tree sap and iron powder.
The problem is that you haven't made the skin any less flexible, so once enough energy/momentum is imparted to the weight to "get it going" (like a bicycle or car) the skin vibrates easily, creating a very deep tone.
This is why people are suggesting a very tight skin, possibly even a plastic one. It's stiffer. It actually resists vibrating, without weighing more, so the tone isn't deeper. It should actually raise the tone, so you could feasibly also add weight to the bridge. Great combination.
I don't like plastic skins (I'm a djembe drummer) so I can't advise that, but I suggest a thicker skin, and looking into which ones are stiffer, and if there's any treatment you can apply to stiffen it.
Replacing the material that the walls of the drum are made out of with something heavier would also help sustain, though again, it will lower the tone. The tone ring might work on this principle, it's mass that you have to get vibrating, so once you do it rings like a bell. A bit like a fly wheel in a car which keeps spinning once you put enough energy into it. Metal rings, but heavier/stiffer walls would have a wood-y sound.
Basically think of your instrument as vibrating so easily, that it's able to convert all the plucking energy into sound right away.
There's none left to "sustain" it. But if the instrument is heavier, and stiff, it takes longer for the string to send it's vibrations into the heavier object. I think the reason it's hard to grasp, is we feel like "but if it doesn't vibrate easily, won't that mean it makes less sound?"
Well, you're asking for sustain. If you want the same volume for longer, but at the same plucking strength, you need a bigger instrument.
So it's a tradeoff. If you want more sustain, it will be quieter. (assuming there's no gains to be made in simply making sure the connections are optimally tight, which there very likely could be, as mr roper found out)

I'm curious how this turns out.
 
I can't be bothered to read this ..I've had a couple of lagers and i'm ready for bed...and it's wayyy to long a post to read it all and take it all in...Sorry:eek:
 
When I first assembled the banjouke I noticed the neck was very slightly tilted to one side and there was some space at the heel bottom. Playing for a week I recognized that the first string was dead sounding and a clip on tuner could barely sense it. I took it apart and could see that one side of the heel had made an impression in the drum shell finish. I cleaned things up and now the A sounds good and the tuner hears it fine.
 
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