How much does figure/flame affect tone?

dkpianoman21

dkpianoman21

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I've been browsing the 'ukulele p***' thread quite a lot and I've seen some absolutely marvelous ukuleles made with beautifully figured woods.

My question is, how much affect on the tone of the instrument can you expect with an ukulele that was built using a highly figured wood set?Generally speaking, is there any difference in tone, or is it merely cosmetic?

Has anyone tried two identical instruments where one was significantly more figured than the other?

Thanks
 
I can only speak of koa with any authority as it is the wood I am most familiar with. As a "general rule", all other things being the same (stiffness, strength and density of the wood as well as build quality), plain, non figured or lightly figured wood with straight grain will almost always be a better choice for an instrument. The differences may or may not be subtle but there is a difference. It makes sense since the wood structure itself is different. Curly (or flamed if you will) is wood grain on a roller coaster ride. Since many people listen with their eyes, people will often choose the "prettier" wood.
 
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interesting topic and another example of using as little creativity as possible.
 
However, I bet a non-experienced luthier with straight grain will not make a better sounding instrument than an experienced luthier with curly grain...Ultimately, the luthier is very important.

With that said, I would pay a premium for curly grain from an experienced luthier as I sure do feel good playing a pretty instrument..
 
nongdam said:
However, I bet a non-experienced luthier with straight grain will not make a better sounding instrument than an experienced luthier with curly grain...Ultimately, the luthier is very important.

With that said, I would pay a premium for curly grain from an experienced luthier as I sure do feel good playing a pretty instrument..
Click to expand...

And what I'm saying is that the builder might do even better with less figured wood. As I mentioned, the differences may not be huge and they may not be important to some people, but they are there.
 
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I almost jumped onto this thread before it had any responses. My response was going to be pretty much what Chuck said but I realized it would be second-hand info as I've never done any really scientific testing. However, it would be second hand info from a lot of different sources... :)

Just consider, for decades (maybe a century?) Englemann spruce was considered the absolute best choice for guitar soundboards. In fact, it still is, at least within the spruce family, and it is only the rarity/cost of Englemann that causes so few soundboards to be made of it today. Englemann spruce is also some of the straightest, tightest, grain you'll find in the spruce family (or was, until reduction of old-growth resulted in smaller trees being harvested).

I'm all about sound. If I were going to have Chuck, or another premium luthier, build me a uke it would have very plain grain on the top - maybe lots of figuring on the sides and headstock veneer, but give me nice straight grain with maybe just a hint of subtle curl in the right light for the top.

Realistically, though, as Chuck implies it's probably one player in a hundred, and maybe one listener in a thousand, that would notice the audible differences between straight and figured grain. And as he put it so well, a lot of people listen with their eyes...

John
 
Moore Bettah Ukuleles said:
And what I'm saying is that the builder might do even better with less figured wood. As I mentioned, the differences may not be huge and they may not be important to some people, but they are there.
Click to expand...

That's great because I got a 3A koa from you so mine sounds bettah than all you suckas that have 5A koa from Chuck!! LOL

JUST KIDDING!!

Chuck, do you want to confirm that mine sounds bettah than all those curly koas? hehehe
 
OldePhart said:
Just consider, for decades (maybe a century?) Englemann spruce was considered the absolute best choice for guitar soundboards. In fact, it still is, at least within the spruce family, and it is only the rarity/cost of Englemann that causes so few soundboards to be made of it today...
Click to expand...

Most of the guitar builders and players I know much prefer Red Spruce or European Spruce to Englemann Spruce. Englemann has a more complex sound than Red, but not more than European. Adirondack (Red) has more head-room than either of those though, and is preferred for Bluegrass. Personally...I like Red and Sitka the best. Not a big fan of Englemann myself...
 
My apologies. In order to answer the question more thoroughly some further things need to be mentioned. There's a lot more to the question other than is curly or plain wood better for an instrument. Please don't overlook what I mentioned in my first response when I said "all things being equal". What's most important to me when choosing tone wood is it's physical characteristics, although visual clues can often be helpful as well as "listening" to the wood. I consider stiffness, strength and density first. Either highly curly or rather plain wood can exhibit all of these traits. But all curl is different. Fiddleback koa, for instance, with it's tight rows of curls, can be extremely stiff. Crotch or compression curl with it's random width bands of wild curly can be very floppy and unstable.
Let me ammend my response by saying that highly figured wood does not necessary make a superior instrument and in fact, often times the reverse is true.
OK, everybody happy now?
 
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I once read that none other than C.F.Martin, founder of Martin guitars, preferred a tight straight grain in the center of his bookmatched tops that got wider towards the outside to get the best sound. Since the uke is basically a small guitar, I would guess the same holds true.
 
I am not sure but if my ukulele player had a great figure and she got burnt by flames i guess her tone would be a little stern and upset...lol....as for the real question for a generalized rule it is difficult to say in every case thathe woods flame and curl vs. straight grain affects tone...so many factors come into a piece of wood in addition to the look......i do agree that many buy with their eyes...nothing wrong with that..great look and great sound
 
DewGuitars said:
Most of the guitar builders and players I know much prefer Red Spruce or European Spruce to Englemann Spruce. Englemann has a more complex sound than Red, but not more than European. Adirondack (Red) has more head-room than either of those though, and is preferred for Bluegrass. Personally...I like Red and Sitka the best. Not a big fan of Englemann myself...
Click to expand...

I have to agree, Englemann is my least favorite spruce and I wouldn't use it for guitars or ukes unless there was nothing else. I like it for violins if the grain isn't too wide.

John, don't know where you got your information but Englemann has never been favored over other spruces by luthiers that I know.
 
BlackBearUkes said:
I have to agree, Englemann is my least favorite spruce and I wouldn't use it for guitars or ukes unless there was nothing else. I like it for violins if the grain isn't too wide.

John, don't know where you got your information but Englemann has never been favored over other spruces by luthiers that I know.
Click to expand...

As I said (or at least thought I said), it's not popular now because there's nothing left but relatively small trees that yield twisted grain - all the big old growth trees have been gone for decades. Decades ago when the old growth was available it was quite popular (probably the reason there isn't any old growth left). Here's what Taylor guitars has to say about Englemann...

Engelmann is also known as white, European or German spruce, although they are technically different species. It is usually visually distinguishable from Sitka by its creamier complexion. We're almost out of the “good stuff.” Engelmann trees these days are so small and twisted that we get a fair amount of runout (grain that doesn't run parallel to the surface) and as a result, mismatched tops.

Sonically, Engelmann has a mature tone, and yields a slightly richer midrange than Sitka, which makes a guitar sound a bit older. Old growth Engelmann tends to have a sonic attribute of smoothness or refinement to it, but the days of older growth Engelmann trees are essentially gone for now.
Click to expand...
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/features/woods/top-woods/engelmann-spruce

When I was young Englemann was favored by many guitar makers and players and Sitka was considered "next best thing if you can't get Englemann." Now, you're lucky to get good Sitka. :)

I've been fortunate enough to play a couple of Taylors with the "good stuff" and I really like it - awfully pricey, though.

Edit to add - okay, I went and read my previous post again and I can see where I didn't express what I meant well at all. I said something like "still is, except for price yada yada" - it would have been clearer if I'd said something like "and still would be if good specimens were available at a reasonable price" :)

John
 
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