Your Thoughts on Singing and Playing

Kyle23

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Ok so I recently learned how to sing and play at the same time and was wondering what you guys all had to say about something. If you aren't a good singer, do you still confidently sing and play or do you stay away from singing and playing? If you are a good singer, do you care if people aren't very good singers when they play? For those of you who can't sing well, do you just work with whatcha got and rock out? I've been following the Seasons of the Uke threads and I noticed that a lot of you are pretty good singers and I know I'm not the only average singer here so I was trying to figure out if the "average" singers aren't posting videos, am I missing the average singers videos, or am I really the only bad one haha. What are your thoughts on this?
 
I find that my playing changes completely when I am also singing - and it doesn't matter what instrument. On uke I can do really nice arpeggios and stuff until I start singing - the moment I start singing I drop into a very simple strummed accompaniment and that seems to be all I can manage. If I try to sing while I am playing bass I inevitably end up crashing and burning.

I think when I sing that that part of the music takes over my brain so I can only do relatively simple things with my hands.l

I'm honestly probably a little better singer than instrumentalist (though I'm nobody's hero on either) but I've seriously considered giving up the singing to concentrate on being a better picker.

I don't know if this came close to answering your question - but the bottom line is to have fun and do what you feel you need to. :)

Most people are harder on themselves than they really should be, especially as regards voice. Part of this is because what we hear in our heads when we sing is not what everybody else hears or what gets picked up by a microphone. The first time I sang using a PA with monitors was absolutely dreadful - I kept trying to make what was coming out of the monitors sound like the "me" that I hear in my head with bone conduction and so on and the result was predictably awful. Since, I've learned to either ignore the monitor entirely or treat it as if it were another person singing with me and as long as what I hear is on pitch I'm happy with that. :)

Finally, when it comes to "good" voices vs. "bad" voices a lot depends on several factors - some of which are necessary and some of which are optional. The most important factor is to be on key - put your initial efforts into developing your ear so you know when you are on pitch or off pitch. It doesn't matter what a wonderful crooner you are if your twenty cents off pitch or reaching for notes that you can't get to with a ladder.

That is 90% of the battle. However, that last ten percent is often the difference between a singer that people can tolerate and one that they will go out of their way to hear. I know a semi-pro singer/songwriter who writes wonderful songs but the poor gal insists on singing them herself. She is perfectly on pitch pretty much 100% of the time - but her voice is just dreadful - she sounds like a wife nagging in key. Honestly, if she was doing hard blues or rock she might do well but for the stuff she writes nobody buys her albums because there is a complete disconnect between the timbre of her voice and the material she is singing and the accompaniment she is using.

Finally, most beginning males tend to sing below their ideal range and most beginning females tend to sing above their ideal range. Not sure what's going on there but it seems to follow. You shouldn't sing in your speaking voice, nor does your speaking voice necessarily indicate what your best singing range is. My speaking voice is very low, my best singing range seems to be high baritone to low tenor - I can occasionally pull off bass but only if they are very short supporting harmonies and not sustained notes. THe leader of our band also has a low speaking voice - speaking he can make the subwoofer rumble - his best singing voice is high tenor and he can even pull off the soprano when he needs to help the female vocalists get their harmonies down.

Lastly, I'm not a singer nor a vocal coach so please feel free to ignore absolutely everything I said above! (I did, however, pay for two years of private lessons for my oldest daughter and I learned a lot from her teacher when she thought I wasn't listening. LOL)

John
 
Oh...and one thing I forgot to mention - the only way to improve as a singer is to sing. It's not something that you can learn from a book. It's not something that can be "taught" as such (the reason that most vocal teachers like the one that helped my oldest daughter tend to call themselves vocal coaches). The more you sing the more your vocal chords will stretch, improving your range. And the flip side of that is that if you stop singing your range will contract and you will find yourself back at square one. Maybe with a little better ear, but back at square one. When I was singing regularly with a small bluegrass gospel combo I was forced to raise everything to C or G for our harp player. That meant stuff I would have preferred to sing in A got raised 1-1/2 steps, etc. I actually got pretty good up there, and discovered I enjoyed it. I moved six years ago and I couldn't hit those notes now if you stuck me with a cattle prod...
 
my thoughts are best summed up by this gorgeous video by filipinouker...



"...don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear, just sing, sing a song" :)
 
Phew OldePhart, that's a lot to process haha.

I sign and play as best as I can, it doesn't sound great, but it makes me happy. My dad was a singer, and I guess I didn't get the good voice gene, but I'll keep working on it and if I improve then awesome, but if I don't, I won't be too upset.

And great video, easy for her to say, she has a lovely voice haha. But I see what you mean, good philosophy.
 
I am not a good singer. I have a limited range, maybe one octave, or less. But I sing. I think my singing has improved. You have to find your key. For me I can't sing songs that have a large range. I sing like a rock star when home alone. I don't like to lead a song at uke group because I am self conscious about my singing but I sing along in a group. I prefer music with music notation because it helps me sing the correct notes.
 
Haha, I've never heard that song, Eugene. Great post!
I know from personal experience that so many people are dead terrified of singing if they think someone will hear. Personally, I love to hear anybody sing, no matter how 'bad' they think they are. I'm much better at singing than I am at playing my uke. But when I hear someone doing both at the same time, no matter what their ability, it impresses me. It's more coordination than I have!
I think that being critical of someone elses singing voice is incredibly rude. In my music classes, we had one teacher who would stop the class and give us a passionate lecture if you laughed at someone who had difficulty singing. She believed, and I agree, that singing should always be encouraged and we should go out of our way to be supportive. :)
 
Haha, I've never heard that song, Eugene. Great post!
I know from personal experience that so many people are dead terrified of singing if they think someone will hear. Personally, I love to hear anybody sing, no matter how 'bad' they think they are. I'm much better at singing than I am at playing my uke. But when I hear someone doing both at the same time, no matter what their ability, it impresses me. It's more coordination than I have!
I think that being critical of someone elses singing voice is incredibly rude. In my music classes, we had one teacher who would stop the class and give us a passionate lecture if you laughed at someone who had difficulty singing. She believed, and I agree, that singing should always be encouraged and we should go out of our way to be supportive. :)

This makes me feel much better (along with roxhum's post). I upload videos to youtube of me singing and playing to my other friends on another forum I'm on only because they don't really see uke players often, so they aren't very critical on my singing lol. I'd be hesitant to post it here because you guys are somethin else I tell ya.
 
As a guitarist, I spent too much time not singing because I thought I was not good enough to sing in public; I kind of regret that lost time.

I sing and play out whenever I can now, and people tell me I sound good; some even say great!

I finally realized that it was not just the quality of the voice but also the energy, emotion, effort, and style expended by the performer that matters.

Look at some of my all time favorite singing guitarists, Mark Knopfler, Neil Young, Tom Petty, Bruce, Dylan, none of those guys are opera caliber singers, but as "Performers" they are among the best.

Just sing, try to stay on key and give it all you have; you will improve and if you really enjoy what you are doing your audience will also.
 
For me, the singing is the whole point...and I'm not a strong singer. Not to overplay a gender observation, but many men seem to approach music like it's an athletic event...with emphasis on instrumental technique. Take a look at American old-time country music -- Appalachian music: the men tended to be instrumental technicians while women tended to be the carriers of the culture in the singing of ballads, hymns, songs. I have huge respect for the songs and the singing. I wish I could sing better. I really took up the ukulele to accompany my awful singing. I used to play fiddle in a string band -- many years ago -- they never let me sing very much. Now I want to sing!

Sing like nobody's listening.
 
As a guitarist, I spent too much time not singing because I thought I was not good enough to sing in public; I kind of regret that lost time.

I sing and play out whenever I can now, and people tell me I sound good; some even say great!

I finally realized that it was not just the quality of the voice but also the energy, emotion, effort, and style expended by the performer that matters.

Look at some of my all time favorite singing guitarists, Mark Knopfler, Neil Young, Tom Petty, Bruce, Dylan, none of those guys are opera caliber singers, but as "Performers" they are among the best.

Just sing, try to stay on key and give it all you have; you will improve and if you really enjoy what you are doing your audience will also.

such a good post GAS. I agree with everything you said here.

Here's a little personal history: when I was a young kid I had a real, intuitive heart for music, ate it up, couldn't get enough of it, anything and everything. I spen hours in my bedroom listen9ing to the radio, tapes, and started collecting vinyl when I was 9. Mum and dad played classical stuff and country so that was part of the puzzle too. When I got to grade 5 there was an opportunity to try out for the primary school choir. I was laughed out of my audition by the teacher and the students looking on. Seriously. Maybe they didn't realise how earnest I was but it truly scarred me and I've spent the rest of my life dealing with the hang-up about not being able to sing.

As a teenager I taught myself guitar and started writing songs. never took em out of the bedroom though as I was mortified at the thought of anyone hearing me sing. By my early twenties I was so crippled with anxiety and self-consciousness something just triggered in my mind one day and I said 'who cares'....I had so much stuff to play and sing. I was desperate for feedback and I was sick of singing to myself.. Basically, I just had enough of my own navel-gazing and I thought what have I got to lose..

Fast forward twenty years and I've played for years in pubs off and on, recorded a couple of albums, even fronted my own music class as a teacher. The early days in public performance were scary, exhilirating, exciting. I used to have to take nerve pills to get me out there, but it has been a joy. The most special thing I've experienced is the connection you make with an audience. I'll never be a great singer, but the audience are more forgiving than we give them credit for. They pick up on the emotional investment of the performer, not the skill level.

My humble advice: don't spend 10 years locked in your bedroom Kyle. But when you sing, sing with all you got, like the words really means something to you. If you feel it, chances are pretty high your audiences will too. And a performance invested with your whole heart and soul breaks down all the barriers that exist. You'll be truly liberated and make some amazing connections with folks!
 
This makes me feel much better (along with roxhum's post). I upload videos to youtube of me singing and playing to my other friends on another forum I'm on only because they don't really see uke players often, so they aren't very critical on my singing lol. I'd be hesitant to post it here because you guys are somethin else I tell ya.

Actually, this is probably one of the most supportive audiences you'll ever find. Folks here at UU are way more gentle than your typical denizen of a guitar forum, for example. :) In fact, it can be pretty difficult to get constructive criticism here because everyone is so anxious to put others at ease! Definitely a lot of "aloha spirit."

John
 
such a good post GAS. I agree with everything you said here.

Here's a little personal history: when I was a young kid I had a real, intuitive heart for music, ate it up, couldn't get enough of it, anything and everything. I spen hours in my bedroom listen9ing to the radio, tapes, and started collecting vinyl when I was 9. Mum and dad played classical stuff and country so that was part of the puzzle too. When I got to grade 5 there was an opportunity to try out for the primary school choir. I was laughed out of my audition by the teacher and the students looking on. Seriously. Maybe they didn't realise how earnest I was but it truly scarred me and I've spent the rest of my life dealing with the hang-up about not being able to sing.

As a teenager I taught myself guitar and started writing songs. never took em out of the bedroom though as I was mortified at the thought of anyone hearing me sing. By my early twenties I was so crippled with anxiety and self-consciousness something just triggered in my mind one day and I said 'who cares'....I had so much stuff to play and sing. I was desperate for feedback and I was sick of singing to myself.. Basically, I just had enough of my own navel-gazing and I thought what have I got to lose..

Fast forward twenty years and I've played for years in pubs off and on, recorded a couple of albums, even fronted my own music class as a teacher. The early days in public performance were scary, exhilirating, exciting. I used to have to take nerve pills to get me out there, but it has been a joy. The most special thing I've experienced is the connection you make with an audience. I'll never be a great singer, but the audience are more forgiving than we give them credit for. They pick up on the emotional investment of the performer, not the skill level.

My humble advice: don't spend 10 years locked in your bedroom Kyle. But when you sing, sing with all you got, like the words really means something to you. If you feel it, chances are pretty high your audiences will too. And a performance invested with your whole heart and soul breaks down all the barriers that exist. You'll be truly liberated and make some amazing connections with folks!

I think that's my problem. I hold back even when no one is in my house. I don't know why, but I can't bring myself to really do it. To me singing is one of the only things that I look at and think "I could never get better", there's something about it. It's like a mythical thing that I chase lol
 
Actually, this is probably one of the most supportive audiences you'll ever find. Folks here at UU are way more gentle than your typical denizen of a guitar forum, for example. :) In fact, it can be pretty difficult to get constructive criticism here because everyone is so anxious to put others at ease! Definitely a lot of "aloha spirit."

John

I know, these forums are amazing. Thinking about posting the video in here for some critiquing, but still a little hesitant. I posted one video a couple weeks ago, but I was messing around on that one. This one I actually tried, and it's not much better.
 
I think that's my problem. I hold back even when no one is in my house. I don't know why, but I can't bring myself to really do it. To me singing is one of the only things that I look at and think "I could never get better", there's something about it. It's like a mythical thing that I chase lol

brother I know what you mean. I was the same for years and have lived with those thoughts and inner voices telling me how s** I am.... But don't give up man, stick at it. the more you do it, the easier it will become and eventually it will start to feel quite natural. It'll take time mate, but you'll get there. Just persist.
:cheers:
 
brother I know what you mean. I was the same for years and have lived with those thoughts and inner voices telling me how s** I am.... But don't give up man, stick at it. the more you do it, the easier it will become and eventually it will start to feel quite natural. It'll take time mate, but you'll get there. Just persist.
:cheers:

Thanks a lot! I will surely keep this in mind.

And I just noticed this. I didn't attempt to copy the colors in your sig. I just made the letters the color my ukuleles were for each word haha.
 
Thanks a lot! I will surely keep this in mind.

And I just noticed this. I didn't attempt to copy the colors in your sig. I just made the letters the color my ukuleles were for each word haha.

we both have good taste. :eek:ld: I'm a child of the 70's mate...orange and brown forever :p
 
I think that's my problem. I hold back even when no one is in my house. I don't know why, but I can't bring myself to really do it. To me singing is one of the only things that I look at and think "I could never get better", there's something about it. It's like a mythical thing that I chase lol

That's one thing you have to get past, for sure. Even someone with a good voice and good pitch control will not sound "good" when they are holding back. You have to really let go and sing for yourself, basically. Sing confidently, even through the mistakes. Most of us tend to choke back when we sense ourselves going off pitch. If you're singing with a group that's probably good for the group, but if you're going it solo you have to push on through and get your voice out there before you can correct it. Otherwise, you're just singing off pitch and timidly. :)

One thing that might help is this - if you are singing solo for others, even just family members, you're already doing something that probably less than 5% of the population has done in their adult lives. If you're singing solo on a publicly posted video, you're doing something that probably less than .0001% of the adult population has ever done.

Maybe it's because I've gotten close to being old enough to claim approaching senility but I've reached that point where I just really don't care if somebody considers anything I do embarrassing or worthy of embarrassement - but I'm still sane enough to know that some of my videos fall well into that category. :)

As long as I'm having fun that's really all that matters.

John
 
I know, these forums are amazing. Thinking about posting the video in here for some critiquing, but still a little hesitant. I posted one video a couple weeks ago, but I was messing around on that one. This one I actually tried, and it's not much better.

When you're ready to share, I'm sure we'd love to hear it!
I can honestly tell you that, the best way to get over public performance nerves is to perform frequently. And I recommend starting with your peers (that is, us!).
But do it in your own time. We understand, starting is the hardest part. :)
 
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