Strad vs. Modern...

Thanks Rick..nice read
 
Thanks for the link, Rick.
I believe this latest comparison only reinforces what has resulted before in similar tests.
In the guitar world "aged tone" is the holy grail, and these violin comparisons hint that the sound of "olde wood" may be replicated in a new instrument.
 
Great read...I also interpreted this as don't limit yourself to Hawaiian made ukes only...many great luthiers out there.
 
It's really not surprising in a time when materials are available to us from around the world and we have access to so many excellent modern tools. Add to that the incredible exchange of information that the Internet affords us. The average garage builder has a fair chance of making better instruments that were made in the past.
 
It is interesting though, that sometimes just the mystique or hype of an instrument can bring out the very best in a musician.
 
As a recovering mandolin player, I am always struck by the reverance people have for the Gibson F-style mandolins made under Lloyd Loar's supervision in 1924 and 1925. A Loar is the holy grail in the mandolin world, and although prices seem to be edging back down now, well-preserved examples were topping $200K in asking price. The reverence for the Loar is certainly rooted in Bill Monroe's acquistion of a Loar in the 1940's (when it was just an old mandolin) with which he established the essential bluegrass sound. While there is more to the Loar mystique than Monroe, he is a huge part of it.

It may be mandolin heresy to observe that many modern mandolins are equivalent and arguably superior to Loars (a slipperly slope to be sure, since tone is subjective). Not too surprising, I suppose, due to the fact that many modern builders create instruments to closely replicate the Loar tone and specs. But builders like Gilchrist, Dudenbostel, and Monteleone are building fantastic instruments. It would be hard to argue that one of these master-level instruments is a step down from a Loar, and yet the Loar has the mystique. It's worth noting that Loar didn't build the mandolins; they are factory-produced instruments whose design specs Loar helped create.

I may be wrong about this, but I've always understood that most Stradavarius violins have been modified over the years; designed for chamber music, they lacked the volume to be played in modern orchestras. So arguably, they no longer have the voice the master created for them
 
Good subject.
The Strads had their scale length extended, at some point in the past, by scarfing the pegbox & scroll onto longer necks. I believe only one remains with its original neck.
The body is the thing though, that's where the sound comes from, and he knew what he was doing with his bodies. He didn't work in a vacuum, but even during his lifetime, Strad violins were considered the very best.

Interesting comments about Gibson Loar mandolins. I suppose if Bill Monroe had taken up a Martin mandolin as his favorite everything would be much different.
For the builder, it really is a matter of having your good instrument fall into the hands of someone who has a rise to stardom, and you get to ride along. It is what every one of us considers when we see a young musician that we like, and we hand over one of our best, and hope for the best.
 
The next leap forward will be the recognition that there are real alternatives to koa.
Koa? What is that? Everyone knows real ukuleles are only made from mahogany!:)
 
I saw the results of the first test, which, if I recall correctly was 7 instruments, 2 strads, 2 from the early 20th century and 3 modern builds, and again the modern ones came out top.
I recently had an original Salvador Ibanez Guitaricco (virtually a soprano Uke) in the shop and it sounded nice enough, but no way better than any decent modern soprano. :)
 
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Nice thread Rick,
While reading about the tests of the violin...something popped in my mind...."The Human Factor" popping behind a screen and being anonymous...
still does not address each of the player or players experience, ability or style... is that a fair accessment of the test....just wondering hmmm
As for instruments in general, yes I do believe that we have more range in building with all the newer materials and technology there is...
Unlike traditional vintage instruments, only certain makers stood out and sounded great....but either in the past or now, I believe there
is more knowledge shared now...before everybody was hesitant to share their secrets...but there is still the "consistancy factor" from
experience and materials....like wood selection and availability of older growth woods or non traditional woods.....which makes a big difference, and the builder has enough
knowledge on how to choose them....tap test and how the wood responds acoustically..
 
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Loars were tap tuned using Philosophical Pitch, C=256 (A=430.54) as the standard; A=440 was not agreed upon internationally until the 1970s.. This according to Roger Siminoff who probably knows more about Loar and the instruments than anyone on the planet. The interesting thing is that this puts the tuned parts of the instruments "between the notes" of modern A 440 pitch, and hence it keeps wolf notes at bay and evens out the response. Of course, this is not what Loar had in mind...he wanted the instruments to be "in tune" with his belief in Philosophical Pitch...he was a Theosophist, and this all had spiritual meaning to him...but lo and behold, in fact it seems that the instruments are more ideal in modern pitch for a music he never heard nor even imagined.

Roger's thoughts on tap tuning have evolved over the years, and I know he's considered pretty controversial, but his mandolins and ones that he's regraduated sound astoundingly like Loars. I took his course a few years ago and got to hear various mandolins in a blind testing setup...very impressive.

I happen to have a 1933 Loar ViViTone acoustic electric guitar which I bought from a good friend of Loar's, a gent named Carl Christianson. Loar gave him the guitar as a thank you for Carl helping to get ViViTone Instruments into the Chicago Century of Progress world's fair. Loar also had a piano (clavier...), mandolin, 10 string mandola, upright bass, and viola...all electric...and a solid body electric guitar, one of the very first.

Not sure about tap tuning and old fiddles, and it would seem that the tap tones of any instruments would shift with age...but that's a whole 'nuther discussion.
 
There is an interesting article in the last issue of American Lutherie about Doug Martin's balsa wood and carbon fiber violin. Interesting new design, and according to the article, sounds pretty good as well.
 
Good subject.
The Strads had their scale length extended, at some point in the past, by scarfing the pegbox & scroll onto longer necks. I believe only one remains with its original neck.

I think it's the "Messiah" Strad where you can see an extention on the butt end of the neck and toe area. They were originally made for baroque music which featured violins with lower string height and shorter necks.

Also something to note most Strads, except for maybe only one, do not have most of their original varnish due to nearly 400 years of wear, polishing and touchups.

Good article, and I think this is a really important quote:

Stradivari’s most enduring legacy isn't making violins that sound better than any other, but that his violins inspire excellence in the current generation of violin makers.

Important because here is the result:

It’s clear that the finest-sounding violins are being made right now, at prices that many musicians can afford.
 
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IF, the human factor of players being inspired by Strads, etc. were true, then their playing should bring out the very best in the old master instruments, and that should be heard and interpreted by the "blind" listeners. However, that does not seem to have been the case here.

And most Strats do have their original nitrocellulose lacquer on them... :) The Strads may or may not...

Hans Weisshaar, who was the premier old violin restorer on the West Coast until his death told me that there were roughly 1,100 known and authenticated Strads and that only two or three had not been subjected to major alterations. I got to interview Hans for Strings magazine in about 1989 or '90 or so...
 
IF, the human factor of players being inspired by Strads, etc. were true, then their playing should bring out the very best in the old master instruments, and that should be heard and interpreted by the "blind" listeners. However, that does not seem to have been the case here.

And most Strats do have their original nitrocellulose lacquer on them... :) The Strads may or may not...

Hans Weisshaar, who was the premier old violin restorer on the West Coast until his death told me that there were roughly 1,100 known and authenticated Strads and that only two or three had not been subjected to major alterations. I got to interview Hans for Strings magazine in about 1989 or '90 or so...

Rick, you need to sit down with one or two others that really know music/instruments and record/video the sessions. You've Lead too fascinating a life to not have it recorded for future generations.
 
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