Behlen 'ready to spray' nitrocellulos lacquer question

I found quarts of Behlen 'ready to spray' sanding sealer and nitrocellulos lacquer hiding in a dark corner of my shop. It has to be 15~20 years old. The sanding sealer is unopened and the lacquer is about 3/4 full. Up until now I have only used Tru-Oil on my ukuleles but wanted to try spraying. ( I got a good quality Chinese HVLP touchup gun not the cheapest ) The lacquer was well sealed but looks a little syrupy to me. This is going over an epoxy filled surface.

Questions.
1. Is it still good ?
2. Is 3/4 of a quart enough for a beginner to learn to spray a soprano ?
3. Should I thin it ?
4. Do I need to filter/strain it ?
5. If you think I should avoid it what is a good forgiving finish for a beginner to learn spraying with ?

Thank you in advance.

test it. If it works, if it looks good in the can, and feels durable after curing, it my be ok.

Test it. apply it to some wood as it is supposed to be applied, and then stress it a little, see what it's limits are with regards to failure. Then you decide.

On any thing I finish, the cost of the lacquer is negligible, my labor is what is expensive. The cost of refinishing something is really high.

OK, answering above my paygrade, but if the material is bad you will have wasted a lot of time and have to remove it from the uke. Lord knows what it will do to the gun.

I do a lot of house related painting and the cost of the paint is a small % of the job. The prep work and application are what make the job.

Throw out the old stuff, buy fresh and shoot some practice boards. You will appreciate the final job long after you've forgotten the bill.

Replace with Cardinal...

Pete,

Should I also get the sealer or with an epoxy filled finish can I go directly to spraying the finish ?

Thanks

on the cheap, a rattle can of Bullseye shellac, after grain filling.

And yes, Cardinal. Old lacquer is great for campfire entertainment, especially the pigmented stuff for some reason.

Oh, and ALWAYS strain before spraying.

A quart of Cardinal and 15oz of hide glue is now on the way from LMII.

This group is a bad influence.

Thanks

acetone will thin it. The Cardinal thinner may work a little better (less texture), but I cannot confirm. I use the Cardinal reducer, but have used acetone when spraying with Pete's gun. If you are using a touch up gun, the fluid nozzle is likely on the small size, which means that thinning will probably be beneficial, almost certainly.

Strain it, be clean, adjust your fan by spraying onto a piece of cardboard, or metal, or most anything smooth. Watch for how it lays out, how it flows together. The spray should not bounce off. A quick bvlip of the trigger with the gun stationary should leave a clean, flat elliptical shape, not heavy in the middle, or heavy on the ends. Figure your sequence out for spraying the body to maintain a wet edge all the way around, and be careful to minimize texture at the place where you meet the starting point after spraying the whole body. Sequence is fairly important for a totally glassy finish.

Kudos for jumping in.

I thin the mixture simply by measuring the height of the lacquer in the can. A gallon is usually 6". I then add 1.5" of Premium cellulose thinner - remember i am in the UK and we just don't have access to all the products you have in the US because the importer only gets the lacquer. When I checked this reduction using a viscosity cup it was spot on - 20 seconds to drain. It sprays evenly and wet. I spray 6 coats directly onto epoxy grain filler - it adheres well. I then flat the finish at 600 grit. I spray 4 more coats the next day. The following day I cut back at 1500 and leave for 7 days before machine buffing. I am not a sprayer as Chris will attest but good results are achievable with careful preparation. There are many ways to fill the grain and as many ways to spray. This truly is a 'suck it and see' part of the learning to be a luthier process where you find 'your' technique and 'your' level. The alternative is to get as Mrs Timbuck to do it....

In what ways is the Cardinal lacquer preferred over the Seagrave lacquer?

I cannot say, as I have only used Cardinal. Cardinal is the most durable lacquer I have ever used. It polishes very well. Someone gave me a quart of Seagreaves, he is just learning lacquer, and someone else advised him that Seagraves is better, that he had some sort of problem with sanding through and 'witness lines' with Cardinal, which I definitely did not have problems with, but cannot really doubt as I was not there. I have sprayed a lot of different finishes, and many different lacquer products. I like almost everything about the Cardinal. The one possible exception is that it seems to flash quickly, at least with the standard thinner, or acetone, as well as by itself, thus making possible, a little more texture in the finished coat where it was not applied fully wet, or mist on curing finish, (sorry I cannot describe it any better) In other words, good spray technique is beneficial. If you spray it right, it lays out gorgeous.. The stuff is tough as nails, and optically beautiful with the wood. I like it well enough that I am skeptical of finding better.

I will use the Seagraves lacquer sometime in the near future, maybe on this beater Cocobolo/Spruce uke that I am finishing right now so I can have something to play when I go to the Southern Utah desert for 3 weeks, coming soon. That is the first uke I ever started. I fell "out of love' with it, so it went on the shelf. I will share my opinion here, on the Seagraves after I do.

Also.. about ready to spray the Rosewood/ Spruce/ Snakewood/ Curly Maple tenor I have also been working on. It is some pretty QS Brazilian, pores just filled yesterday with the Chemcraft paste filler tinted black to 'pop' the grain a little. Very pleased with the results.

Most guitar makers have switched to Cardinal. That is an unwritten endorsement.

I am still using up the last of my Seagraves/McFaddens lacquer and have not resupplied yet. I am seriously thinking of trying the Cardinal lacquer next. I have only heard positive feedback so far. My only hesitation is the fact that I have my technique dialed in on this formula and don't really want to change things much. I figure it is probably pretty similar in application, but it is good to know about the shorter flash time. Would a little retarder help?

Whta turned people onto Cardinal was the long time it took for Seagrave to get their act together... I've used Behlen, McFadden and now Cardinal and have founf Cardinalk has the best all round performance.

What I said about flash time was about a subtle quality of the lacquer, you may not even notice it. Who knows, your gun may 'like' it. Don't let it scare you, Cardinal is great lacquer, IMO.

Generally, if the fan seems to be set up correctly, wetting quickly and evenly for about 80-90% of the fan width, with no hollow spots, and you are having difficulty with the finish laying out flat and glassy, thinning is a good place to start if you have not already. If you need to thin it beyond 15% or so, a different gun might spray it better. Some lacquers,. if they are thinned too much will dry with an orange peel texture, which is different than the granulated texture of a coat that was not sprayed fully wet, or mist/ overspray landing on a flashing finish, thus not flowing correctly. I have seen the Cardinal thinned up to maybe 30% with no problems.

Just curious, anyone ever use ML Campbell Lacquer on instruments? http://www.mlcampbell.com/ I build furniture on occasion and found it to be a great product. Flows super well. Comes in pre-catalyzed and post-catalyzed. I used the pre-cat Magnmax when building a large set of kitchen cabinets. (couple gallons) No catalyst mixing required, but has a short shelf life after open. They also sell a nitrocellulose acrylic

I've been using the Behlen and am gonna give the Cardinal a try. I have not thinned the Behen because I figured it was plenty warm and dry enough to not have to. After reading some comments here about 10% thinning I gave it a try and was amazed at how much better it flowed. Best finish for me to date. Finishing is the hardest part for me.

Remember to use single only coats. If you spray over too soon the finish becomes 'granular', the top wet coat reacting with the curing previous coat.

Finishing is hard for most of us...

ML Cambell used to be carried by Sherwin Williams, it was not one of my preferred options. That lacquer is nowhere near as hard as Cardinal. Yes, it is a little more forgiving of spray technique, but that is no reason to use it.

Chris_H said:

ML Cambell used to be carried by Sherwin Williams, it was not one of my preferred options. That lacquer is nowhere near as hard as Cardinal. Yes, it is a little more forgiving of spray technique, but that is no reason to use it.

Click to expand...

Wonder how they test for hardness? Sure works good on high usage kitchen cabinets... They have 3 grades of pre-cat lacquer and a nitro as well. I'll shoot them an email and see what they say compaired to Cardinal's Nitro. Cardinal says: ASTM D3363 (method) ----Pencil (parameters)----- H-2H (result)..... not sure what that means comparatively.