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rem50
05-07-2013, 04:16 PM
Today was a first for me. When I play publicly I usually I usually take a friend or two with me so we can take turns singing and taking lead breaks. Today was different. I was asked to play at a rest home and went by myself today. I played for a hour without repeating a song but ran into a problem. I really don't know how to arrange a "set". Is there a standard format to start with? Fast song,? slow song,? I found I did not have a real good grasp on how to keep the crowd involved. I did okay and didn't have a problem with the songs or playing, it was just a problem with what order should I play them in. Any help would be appreciated.

Jon Moody
05-07-2013, 04:55 PM
It's really trial and error; no hard and fast rules in creating a setlist. I try to mix fast and slow songs, but do it in a manner that it feels natural. So for example, start out with a fast song, followed by another fast one without a break in between. After that, say a couple words (and I mean a couple; keep it short), which will allow you to put in a medium tempo song and then a slow one. Bring it back up with a fast one, etc.. That's extremely generalized, but I think you get the idea.

A lot of it can also depend on how receptive the audience is as well. You may find with a quieter audience (like at a rest home), a lot of slower tunes would be fine, whereas a bar would yield a quicker set of tunes.

Tele295
05-07-2013, 05:00 PM
Always start strong and end strong. Keep the tempos and styles mixed up

UncleElvis
05-07-2013, 05:06 PM
The best advice I've ever received on this subject is "Watch".
Watch the crowd. All of them. If they're responding to a song, then ease in that direction. If they're not, try something else.

However, I've found that a good rule of thumb is to try 4 or 5 song sets, strung together.

When I HAVE to make up a set (which is becoming more and more rare, thankfully, as I learn and memorize more and more songs, so I CAN go off the cuff... a goal I've been working on for a LONG time now!), I usually do it either like this:

1. Something familiar and/or expected. "Over The Rainbow" or somethin'.
2. Something UNEXPECTED. Anything from "Put A Ring On It" to "Piano Man" to "Bohemian Rhapsody"
3. Your favorite song to play. Something you can nail to the wall.
4. Another unexpected one, but think "Pleasant Surprise"... like, "Wow. I never thought about that song for the ukulele. That's cool!"
and then, if you get an encore, the Big 'Un.
A singalong like "Lean On Me" or "Imagine" (Get them to do the "You hooo-oo-oo-ooo"s). Something they know and will sing to.
Then back to 1.
It's easier to remember 4 sets than 20 songs.

Of course, there's something to be said for making four out of five completely unexpected and then hit them with a classic like "Halleluia" or, again, "Imagine" or "Ain't No Sunshine"...

But one of the skills that you should (and it looks like you've got your head wrapped around this as a concept) try to cultivate is the ability to read the crowd for what they're looking for.
It takes a LONG time to learn, but you get a little better at it every time you play.

advancedbasic
05-07-2013, 05:17 PM
The best advice I've ever received on this subject is "Watch".
Watch the crowd. All of them. If they're responding to a song, then ease in that direction. If they're not, try something else.

However, I've found that a good rule of thumb is to try 4 or 5 song sets, strung together.

When I HAVE to make up a set (which is becoming more and more rare, thankfully, as I learn and memorize more and more songs, so I CAN go off the cuff... a goal I've been working on for a LONG time now!), I usually do it either like this:

1. Something familiar and/or expected. "Over The Rainbow" or somethin'.
2. Something UNEXPECTED. Anything from "Put A Ring On It" to "Piano Man" to "Bohemian Rhapsody"
3. Your favorite song to play. Something you can nail to the wall.
4. Another unexpected one, but think "Pleasant Surprise"... like, "Wow. I never thought about that song for the ukulele. That's cool!"
and then, if you get an encore, the Big 'Un.
A singalong like "Lean On Me" or "Imagine" (Get them to do the "You hooo-oo-oo-ooo"s). Something they know and will sing to.
Then back to 1.
It's easier to remember 4 sets than 20 songs.

Of course, there's something to be said for making four out of five completely unexpected and then hit them with a classic like "Halleluia" or, again, "Imagine" or "Ain't No Sunshine"...

But one of the skills that you should (and it looks like you've got your head wrapped around this as a concept) try to cultivate is the ability to read the crowd for what they're looking for.
It takes a LONG time to learn, but you get a little better at it every time you play.

Any tips on singing while playing simultaneously? I've been practicing certain songs and find that I really need to know either the lyrics or the uke so well that I don't have to think about it before I can add the other in.

Jon Moody
05-07-2013, 05:25 PM
Any tips on singing while playing simultaneously? I've been practicing certain songs and find that I really need to know either the lyrics or the uke so well that I don't have to think about it before I can add the other in.

Short answer: Practice slowly, and build up the tempo as the muscle memory sets in.

Long answer: If I'm learning a new tune, I try to get a copy of it so I can play it in the car ad nauseum and sing with it until I'm blue in the face. That helps ingrain the vocal line to the point that when I'm working on the uke part, I don't have to focus on two things at once. Plus, you've listened to it enough that you're subconsciously already going to have the strumming patterns and feel of the song down to a point.

UncleElvis
05-07-2013, 06:34 PM
Any tips on singing while playing simultaneously? I've been practicing certain songs and find that I really need to know either the lyrics or the uke so well that I don't have to think about it before I can add the other in.

Do it once. Then do it again.
Then again. And again. Start slow and do it again.
And again.
Oh, and when you're sick of playing the song and never want to hear it ever again in your life?
Play it again.

And then do it again.

Just keep playing. And playing. And playing.

This summer, I'll be playing 5 nights a week, three hour straight-through sets. I have a thing where, if someone requests a song I don't do, I'll give it a go, 'cuz that can be a WHOLE lot of fun!, but most days, I'm playing my ukulele for another 2 or 3 hours during the day, working on new songs, writing stuff, banging through progressions of different songs...

The best way to get better is to keep doing it.

If, as Un Singe Mauvais said, I'm not familiar with the song, I'll listen to it, playing along, ad nauseum, until I get it down enough that I can fake it.

(And faking it is a HUGE part of performing! Believe that!)

Tootler
05-07-2013, 08:44 PM
I f you're playing in a rest home, then include plenty songs the audience can join in with.

Hippie Dribble
05-07-2013, 09:14 PM
Hey Dean, aside from what others have said, the best advice I could give you from experience is to engage with the audience as much as you can. Make it as intimate as possible, like a fireside chat. Share stuff of yourself. The more interactive you make it in between songs the more ready and attentive they'll be for the next one...share some history of the song or something personal about what it means to you, keep it lighthearted and 'self deprecating' works well too....really is a very good thing to do cause then their really ready for it....not every time of course, but regularly. That kind of modus operandi is perfect for nursing homes. Also, as Geoff said, stuff they know is great to keep that interactive vibe going, encourage singalongs and call and response where you can.

With a bigger crowd and a more anonymous venue like a club or a pub it's a little different but similar principle applies.

As far as structuring the setlist goes, I agree with what the others have said...keep it dynamic, lots of light and shade, hit em hard with some of your best stuff right from the get go but keep some up your sleeve, and the old principle of starting and finishing strong is so true.

pulelehua
05-08-2013, 04:10 AM
An old rule for jazzers is not to play two songs in a row in the same key. I think if you can manage this, it helps, especially if you're on your own, as you probably play the same chords in the same positions, and it might start to sound a bit like a medley.

ukulibrarian
05-08-2013, 05:51 AM
Thanks UncleElvis for that "set list." That will really come in handy! I mostly play for children, but branching out soon and that's helpful :)

drbekken
05-08-2013, 06:13 AM
An old rule for jazzers is not to play two songs in a row in the same key.

And that's one damn good rule.

OldePhart
05-08-2013, 06:28 AM
Hey Dean, aside from what others have said, the best advice I could give you from experience is to engage with the audience as much as you can. Make it as intimate as possible, like a fireside chat.

:agree: - this pretty much defines the difference between a true entertainer and a mere musician or singer.

John

rem50
05-08-2013, 06:34 AM
Thanks for all the help. I can relate to what oyu are saying, especially about reading the audience. I have a place I play where something like: hey good lookin or folsom prison blues is a hit and these went over like lead balloons. They enjoyed mostly classics like mr sandman, sunnyside of the street, side by side.... I appreciate the suggestions of song tempo and selection. I want to quit "winging it" and be able to do a bigger venue than nursing homes. I think a pub would be the ultimate in testing your performance abilities, it might get rough if you are terrible! Ha! Out of curiousity what "new (er) songs do you find younger audiences like? People 30-40? I would like to know what I need to learn to be more diverse. Thanks again, Dean

Uncle Rod Higuchi
05-08-2013, 07:38 AM
If you do these songs, here are some 'connect with the audience' tips:

Back in the Saddle Again (Gene Autry) I do a what's the name of this cowboy's horse quiz -
The Lone Ranger's horse... Silver; and Tonto's horse?... Scout
Roy Roger's horse... Trigger; and Dale Evans' horse?... Buttermilk
Hopalong Cassidy's horse... Topper
Gene Autry's horse... Champion

Cherry Pink and Apple Blossom White:
I'm asthmatic so the Bridge presents a problem, esp going from the last line into the last verse - without taking a breath!! So I mention that this is a difficult song for asthmatics... and sometimes I take a puff from my inhaler, you know to work the 'sympathy' angle :)

any song from the teens or earlier (1890's to early 1920's):
I mention that this is a song 'Their" parents enjoyed. The older ones are so used to being the oldest, it's a kick for them to consider that others older than they are (their parents) enjoyed the song(s).

After "Five foot two", or a bit later in the set, I do 'Ramblin' Rose' as the 'NAME' of the 'Gal' (has anybody seen my gal?) :)

In general, if I have the dates of the older songs (20's, 30's, etc.) I try to bring up what might have been happening around the time the song was becoming popular.

Also, I introduce "Take me Out to the Ballgame" as one of the most well-known 'waltzes' in America, since it is 3/4 time. If there are other 3/4 time songs that are not known as waltzes, I introduce them as a waltz... again just for the shock effect :)

I'm sure you can come up with other 'interesting' comments and data to help introduce your next song/selection.

keep uke'in',

rem50
05-08-2013, 11:41 AM
Uncle Rod, really liked to see the way you put the humor in there. I especially liked the waltz bit. Now I need to find when some of these songs were written. Still wondering what "new" songs might be good for younger audiences. The only song I know is count on me by Bruno Mars. (Don't listen to the radio)

mattydee
05-08-2013, 11:54 AM
Loved Elvis' advice... I just did that for myself. Gonna make things a ton easier as I go forward.

For newer songs, I've been playing Call Me Maybe, Forget You, and Crazy (Gnarles Barkely). I also have Amanda Palmer's Ukulele Anthem at the ready, and arrangements of a ton of 80s songs, which the younger folks still seem to like, in a retro way, I guess.

Uncle Rod Higuchi
05-08-2013, 12:00 PM
Yeah, unfortunately, I'm a bit of an anachronism in that I play the 'real' Oldies... and love it!

Most of my audiences are older than I am so my music fits right in with them.

When I get asked to do a Birthday Party, or Wedding, or some such event, I almost apologetically
have to let them know that I'll be doing Older Popular music (30's, 40's, 50's ). So I'm definitely NOT the one to give
advice re: more contemporary selections. Sorry. We each have our niches :)

keep uke'in',

OldePhart
05-08-2013, 12:50 PM
...and Crazy (Gnarles Barkely)....

Dang I love that song - unfortunately, by the time I transpose it down to a range my voice can even approach it loses much of it's charm... :)

John

itsme
05-08-2013, 01:02 PM
An old rule for jazzers is not to play two songs in a row in the same key.
I have to agree there. I've noticed that uke groups tend to play songs in "uke friendly" keys. After a while songs with C/G/Am/F all have a bit of sameness about them.

PhilUSAFRet
05-08-2013, 01:08 PM
I'd suggest you look into Ralph Shaw, his pubs, DVDs, and emails. One of the best uke workshops I've ever attended was with him. Performing is his specialty. He's a super guy and will answer any difficult questions you may have.....he does travel a lot.

http://www.ralphshaw.ca/

Nickie
05-08-2013, 01:15 PM
Dean, bless you for playing for those folks. Nursing home life can be depressing at best. Most of the songs metioned early in this thread are too new for NH people to recognize. I play regulalry for my patienst and thier families, and they don't have a clue what Imagine is...they enjoy 5'2", Amazing Grace, Ain't She Sweet, oldies, not 50s and 60s oldies, but OLDIES, moldy olies with dust on them...they don't know Jimmy Buffet, much less Bruno Mars...but I have played You've Got a Friend In Me, and they like it, because it sounds retro...they also enjoy a good instrumental now and then, especially if they recognize the tune, like Aura Lee...
if they seem fidgity, and arne't asleep, the staff will appreciate you a lot more if you end with a couple of laid back, peaceful songs...and don't be upset if they stare a hole right through you...most dementia patients don't even know I'm there!

ukemunga
05-08-2013, 01:38 PM
I'm resigned to being a backup player. I might be able to learn to carry a tune voice-wise. But I doubt it. Especially while I'm playing.

I'm essentially a drummer with no music theory, notational reading ability, or anything else that knowledgeable jammers have going for them. I can, and do, read and learn chords - and can mostly play them while reading Chordie-type song sheets with lyrics and chord changes noted.

Some tunes I can remember the chord patterns, others not so much. But if it's in front of me to read I can pretty much get down and provide some percussive embellishment.

I don't think I'll ever be a solo but I'm sure as hell having fun!

Dan Uke
05-08-2013, 02:18 PM
Dang I love that song - unfortunately, by the time I transpose it down to a range my voice can even approach it loses much of it's charm... :)

John

You gotta slow it down and do a Ray Lamontagne version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPGS7sBmdIU

another good one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2jgdsHzDf4

Mxyzptik
05-08-2013, 03:39 PM
Dean, bless you for playing for those folks. Nursing home life can be depressing at best. Most of the songs metioned early in this thread are too new for NH people to recognize. I play regulalry for my patienst and thier families, and they don't have a clue what Imagine is...they enjoy 5'2", Amazing Grace, Ain't She Sweet, oldies, not 50s and 60s oldies, but OLDIES, moldy olies with dust on them...they don't know Jimmy Buffet, much less Bruno Mars...but I have played You've Got a Friend In Me, and they like it, because it sounds retro...they also enjoy a good instrumental now and then, especially if they recognize the tune, like Aura Lee...
if they seem fidgity, and arne't asleep, the staff will appreciate you a lot more if you end with a couple of laid back, peaceful songs...and don't be upset if they stare a hole right through you...most dementia patients don't even know I'm there!


I certainly agree with the sentiment here. My mother was the Matron and Head Nurse of the Nursing home in my home town. When I was young she forced me to come and practice my piano lessons there. I wasn't performing but practicing, some of the old folks sat with what seemed liked indifference, others yelled oddly inappropriate things at weird times and some clapped and some sang along ( not always the song I was playing ) and some just sat and smiled.
The longer I did it the more comfortable I became and my visits morphed into reading paperbacks and helping them write letters or playing crib. I developed a different look at our local history and it started my love of songs from the Great American Songbook. Later in life I ran for office in a civic election in a town I had recently moved to. Knowing that Seniors never miss an opportunity to exercise their franchise, I took my Readers Digest songs of the 40's, 50's and 60's and we played and sang and talked about issues that were important to them. Snuck out a win by 13 votes .

Play them whatever you like playing and be yourself. It is a different audience to be sure but there are unlimited opportunities for personal growth.

addicted2myuke
05-08-2013, 03:40 PM
I played in a senior center as well and all the residents responded to songs from the 20s and 30s. Most of them were elderly and could identify with the songs of their generation. "Get out and get under the moon" " Five foot two" "Keep on the Sunny Side" The Daily Ukulele Songbook has so many great old songs. That's what worked for me. They were all swinging to the beat. It was great.

rem50
05-08-2013, 03:51 PM
There are some great songs and if I had a choice I would just play that type (early 1900's) but I do want to grow with my uke performing abilities. I sure appreciate all the help and ideas I am getting in this thread. Thank you. As for all the kudos for playing at the NH's, I really do like old folks, they are usually very interesting. Little tough to handle though when they don't respond.

mattydee
05-08-2013, 04:09 PM
You gotta slow it down and do a Ray Lamontagne version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPGS7sBmdIU

another good one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2jgdsHzDf4

That's the version I do. It's so good.

Jon Moody
05-09-2013, 12:27 AM
I have to agree there. I've noticed that uke groups tend to play songs in "uke friendly" keys. After a while songs with C/G/Am/F all have a bit of sameness about them.

True. I think though, that since uke groups have a very wide gamut of talent and skill (you've got some folk there that have played ukes for decades and are skilled, and you've got people who just took it out of the plastic from the store), you have to keep it on an even plane so everyone can get involved. In those instances, I'll play the C chords that few are doing, just to "thicken the stew," as a singer I play with says.

To the OP, in terms of more "current" songs, I'll do anything that has a good message. I did a uke gig at a bar a couple months ago and the setlist included:

-Days Go By (Offspring)
-Mighty (Planet Smashers)
-Me & Julio Down by the Schoolyard (Paul Simon)
-Solsbury Hill (Peter Gabriel)

OldePhart
05-09-2013, 02:28 AM
You gotta slow it down and do a Ray Lamontagne version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPGS7sBmdIU

another good one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2jgdsHzDf4

Woah! I like that. I have to confess I don't think I'd even heard of Ray Lamontagne but that's some good stuff!

John

FiL
05-09-2013, 03:05 AM
When playing nursing homes, bulk up on the happy, upbeat songs and go light on the sad songs. As others have said, old songs that they can sing along to are best.

For more general setlist advice, a friend send me this a while ago. I have no idea where he got it from, but it is filled with lots of good advice:

SETTING UP A SET LIST

Start with something uptempo and engaging...something that "starts right in", too; no long intro vamps. Get straight to it: Get their attention.

End with the piece you think will get you an encore...unless you really want to get off stage...then end with the piece you think WON'T get you an encore. In the event you DO get an encore, save one piece that you really think expresses who you are.

In between, use variety and juxtaposition. That doesn't mean you can't do a couple slow ones in a row, but generally try to vary things. If you play instrumentals, alternate them with vocals. I'd vote for at least 50% vocals, although they could be vocals with nice instrumental breaks.

Many singer/songwriters of my generation tended to do a lot of "down" material, causing audiences to want to slit their wrists, so try to have enough good lighthearted stuff so you don't have the demise of audience members on your conscience.

Also please keep the encore SHORT as the club may have a deadline or open mikers to squeeze in. Do not go beyond your time or beg for more time.

I'd also change up keys so you get a different musical feel though you can do 2 songs in the same key & the music police won't get cha. vary rhythms and keys. Upbeat and downbeat, make it sparkle. I once did a set in 6 different keys, alphabetically by key.

Talk with your audience like you would in your living room; move your gaze around the room & make eye contact with several members.

Think of your set as a "W" ( a shallow one, not as steep as the letter). Make sure you have a really strong song for the middle of the set as well as the beginning and end

Play your best song second. This suggests that the audience requires some "settling" - even after they're settled in their seats - and they rarely give 100% of their attention until the 1st song has "warmed them up".

I have 4 songs from which I choose an opener, and they're all up-beat and rhythmic. One is a shade darker in mood than the other three, and gets played only when the audience is the "right" one for that mood.

I avoid like the plague playing two consecutive songs in the same key or the same "feel". Most people in the audience have no clue why, but they know when the songs have a "sameness" to them.

I try never to follow a very dark, slow song with one which is startlingly light-hearted, comparatively.

Key (every song in a different key)
Tempo (slow/fast/medium)
Rhythmic style (very different from "Tempo": funky, very slow, etc)
Lyric mood ("light", humorous, "heavy", uplifting, wrist-slitting, etc)
Musical mood (melodic darkness vs lightness, etc; active vs static chords)
Original vs coverFocus: (is it a "playing or picking" song?; is it all voice-oriented? etc.)

There are even more subtle differences between successive songs, and it's worth an artist's time to become aware of these. Having someone you trust nearby to ask about the differences they hear in successive songs and in the "flow" of your set-list is very helpful. The most skilled listener still wants to have the series of songs in a set (or CD) follow a "flow" of ups, downs, twists and turns, shock and smoothness, in the same way that a great song or story leads the ear and mind.

Kill 'em; kill 'em again but different; then do something you love. Repeat as time permits.

End with something catchy or hummable.

Your favorites are not the audience's favorites.

Less is more.

For songwriters: Do not explain your songs: if they need explanation, they are not ready.

Mix in some covers. Let 'em know you are not the only songwriter whose material is good enough for you.

Open with a song that'll get attention. Don't talk first, just dive into the first song. Introduce yourself and talk a bit after the first one.

When organizing a set list, pick a sequence of songs that result in going to a higher key.

As for playing style similarity, one thing to consider is if two songs in a row are in different keys only by virtue of capo position, but use the same fingering, and the same picking style, the key change may not be enough to sound really different to the listener.

Having some songs in 3/4 time can be a good thing, as those will certainly sound different to the listener.

- FiL

rem50
05-09-2013, 03:51 AM
Wow! Thank you for taking the time to put all that in writing. Everything everybody has been saying is very helpful also seeing new songs to learn.:) thank you all for the help!
When playing nursing homes, bulk up on the happy, upbeat songs and go light on the sad songs. As others have said, old songs that they can sing along to are best.

For more general setlist advice, a friend send me this a while ago. I have no idea where he got it from, but it is filled with lots of good advice:

SETTING UP A SET LIST

Start with something uptempo and engaging...something that "starts right in", too; no long intro vamps. Get straight to it: Get their attention.

End with the piece you think will get you an encore...unless you really want to get off stage...then end with the piece you think WON'T get you an encore. In the event you DO get an encore, save one piece that you really think expresses who you are.

In between, use variety and juxtaposition. That doesn't mean you can't do a couple slow ones in a row, but generally try to vary things. If you play instrumentals, alternate them with vocals. I'd vote for at least 50% vocals, although they could be vocals with nice instrumental breaks.

Many singer/songwriters of my generation tended to do a lot of "down" material, causing audiences to want to slit their wrists, so try to have enough good lighthearted stuff so you don't have the demise of audience members on your conscience.

Also please keep the encore SHORT as the club may have a deadline or open mikers to squeeze in. Do not go beyond your time or beg for more time.

I'd also change up keys so you get a different musical feel though you can do 2 songs in the same key & the music police won't get cha. vary rhythms and keys. Upbeat and downbeat, make it sparkle. I once did a set in 6 different keys, alphabetically by key.

Talk with your audience like you would in your living room; move your gaze around the room & make eye contact with several members.

Think of your set as a "W" ( a shallow one, not as steep as the letter). Make sure you have a really strong song for the middle of the set as well as the beginning and end

Play your best song second. This suggests that the audience requires some "settling" - even after they're settled in their seats - and they rarely give 100% of their attention until the 1st song has "warmed them up".

I have 4 songs from which I choose an opener, and they're all up-beat and rhythmic. One is a shade darker in mood than the other three, and gets played only when the audience is the "right" one for that mood.

I avoid like the plague playing two consecutive songs in the same key or the same "feel". Most people in the audience have no clue why, but they know when the songs have a "sameness" to them.

I try never to follow a very dark, slow song with one which is startlingly light-hearted, comparatively.

Key (every song in a different key)
Tempo (slow/fast/medium)
Rhythmic style (very different from "Tempo": funky, very slow, etc)
Lyric mood ("light", humorous, "heavy", uplifting, wrist-slitting, etc)
Musical mood (melodic darkness vs lightness, etc; active vs static chords)
Original vs coverFocus: (is it a "playing or picking" song?; is it all voice-oriented? etc.)

There are even more subtle differences between successive songs, and it's worth an artist's time to become aware of these. Having someone you trust nearby to ask about the differences they hear in successive songs and in the "flow" of your set-list is very helpful. The most skilled listener still wants to have the series of songs in a set (or CD) follow a "flow" of ups, downs, twists and turns, shock and smoothness, in the same way that a great song or story leads the ear and mind.

Kill 'em; kill 'em again but different; then do something you love. Repeat as time permits.

End with something catchy or hummable.

Your favorites are not the audience's favorites.

Less is more.

For songwriters: Do not explain your songs: if they need explanation, they are not ready.

Mix in some covers. Let 'em know you are not the only songwriter whose material is good enough for you.

Open with a song that'll get attention. Don't talk first, just dive into the first song. Introduce yourself and talk a bit after the first one.

When organizing a set list, pick a sequence of songs that result in going to a higher key.

As for playing style similarity, one thing to consider is if two songs in a row are in different keys only by virtue of capo position, but use the same fingering, and the same picking style, the key change may not be enough to sound really different to the listener.

Having some songs in 3/4 time can be a good thing, as those will certainly sound different to the listener.

- FiL