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Pete Howlett
05-20-2013, 05:59 AM
I really need this explaining to me because it comes up frequently when questions are asked. Why do people preface ill-informed opinion by stating "I'm not a luthier..." ? How can anyone give informed advice - and this is what this forum exists for: real experience, real advice - when they haven't had the experience. I'm mystified :) It would be like me advising the dentist who has just pulled my tooth this afternoon, how to perform the proceedure wouldn't it?

ChaosToo
05-20-2013, 06:07 AM
Maybe people are just trying to help, but are just quantifying their help as 'amateur' help, rather than it being a professional opinion?

Or maybe they're just saying they're 'not a luthier' in case anyone accuses them as passing themselves off as such?

I'm not a car mechanic, but I know a bit about certain cars. I'm not a musician, but I have a knowledge of certain things musical. I'm not a professional sportsman, but I know a fair bit about many sports.

I don't think there's any intention of deliberately misleading anyone ....... :D

hoosierhiver
05-20-2013, 06:15 AM
Well, I'm not a psychologist but.........

tobinsuke
05-20-2013, 06:16 AM
I'm not a prognosticator.... but I don't foresee anything coming of this thread that is positive for anyone. Just my unqualified 2 cents.

hawaii 50
05-20-2013, 06:22 AM
Well, I'm not a psychologist but.........


Haha good one!

Dan Uke
05-20-2013, 06:23 AM
There is no accreditation to become a luthier vs. a dentist. People go to luthiery school but I'm sure some don't.

Many times the advice given is read and just build so probably some have taken that advice and can build an instrument so using personal experience.

Then there's people like me who read many threads and try to regurgitate someone else but usually in the wrong context. LOL

David Newton
05-20-2013, 06:26 AM
I'm a luthier, but that doesn't stop me from giving advice of which I have absolutely no experience.

Pukulele Pete
05-20-2013, 07:24 AM
Just because someone says they are a Luthier , doesnt mean their advice is good either. Just like in life , you have to sift through the crap to find the truth.

ksquine
05-20-2013, 07:53 AM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV

HELLO...THE UKULELE WAS CREATED BY NON-EXPERT LUTHIERS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
I'm sure the expert luthiers of the time thought those Hawaiians were foolish.
Sometimes I'm glad the non-experts tried something new.....light bulbs, cars, PC's, etc. But yeah, most of the time the idea is crap

konut
05-20-2013, 07:57 AM
I am not a Lutheran, nor do I play one on TV, but the disclaimer helps to give weight, or context, to the comment. It is up to the reader to judge relevance.

DewGuitars
05-20-2013, 08:37 AM
Well, I'm not a proctologist, butt....

tobinsuke
05-20-2013, 09:03 AM
Well, I'm not a proctologist, butt....

Ahhhh ha ha ha!!

Rick Turner
05-20-2013, 09:44 AM
Ahh, Pete, so good to see the curmudgeon come out. Sometimes it's lonely here in the cranky old farts corner...

Obviously, another one that gets me is when folks ask for advice and then get it...often surrounded by questions...and then they bitch about being asked to more clearly explain themselves...since they clearly wanted a really dumb-ass simple answer...when that would not be appropriate if one of us who does know what we're talking about chose to tell the real truth.

This whole thing about "can I shine up a satin finish"... The only simple answer is "Maybe yes, maybe no". But if you don't even have a clue as to what the finish is, can there be an answer?

I don't mind claiming that I'm a luthier. I seem to fit the WikiPedia definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luthier I do object to kit builders calling themselves "makers" or "luthiers"...particularly the parts Strat builders and their ilk. I think one should know how to build nearly all the parts of the instruments...and to do so...to really be considered a luthier/builder. And there are some repair luthiers who truly deserve the honorific title...Frank Ford, T.J. Thompson, Dan Erlewine come immediately to mind. And I do remember Michael Gurian once coming up to me at some talk at a luthiers' convention and saying "You and I are the only ones here who could build a guitar with a brief case worth of hand tools." No matter how much we tool up, it is really gratifying to have a foundation in hand tool work. I love how my CNC machine carves necks. I have no problem using a drawknife, spokeshave, and Nicholson #50 either when that is appropriate. And it can be faster!

But the Internet makes all who can type and snap a photo on their phone into ultimate experts... It's up to us to edit.

drumgerry
05-20-2013, 10:12 AM
For myself who's been hobby making instruments for 12 years on and off I wouldn't ever claim to be a luthier - I'd leave that to the pros who make part or all of their income from it. I always say I have an interest in lutherie rather than immodestly claim more than I'm entitled to. Plus I'd be loath to give advice on anything I don't have direct experience of in any field. I was wary of saying the other day to someone that it's possible to mod a Stewmac circle cutter to cut uke-sized rosette channels and soundholes!

And I do try to research a subject before asking about it on a forum. The HVLP thing has me flummoxed because it's only words and pictures on a screen at the moment.

tobinsuke
05-20-2013, 10:18 AM
Rick, kind of a side-note here, but since you cited Wikipedia.... Your entry is interesting - reflects a long history in the industry... points out that you don't suffer fools (fair enough).... And then compares you to Simon Cowell :) So there's another example of working through some crap (Simon Cowell, really?) to find some truth (your experience/accomplishments) - that's the Internet for ya.

David Newton
05-20-2013, 10:25 AM
This is about the neck-reset thread, isn't it?

Rick Turner
05-20-2013, 10:55 AM
The Internet is a fabulous tool...and you have to be very careful about taking things at face value. It's the great un-edited Ganges of information...holy and filled with shit at the same time. You have to know how to ask of it; you have to be careful with that which you receive. But much (not all) is there.

Try, for instance, Googling yourself...you're probably there. Now try Googling your parents...maybe...or grandparents or beyond...probably not. Drops off pretty quickly! Yet my youngest son has a blog...

tobinsuke
05-20-2013, 11:26 AM
The Internet is a fabulous tool...and you have to be very careful about taking things at face value. It's the great un-edited Ganges of information...holy and filled with shit at the same time. You have to know how to ask of it; you have to be careful with that which you receive. But much (not all) is there.

Try, for instance, Googling yourself...you're probably there. Now try Googling your parents...maybe...or grandparents or beyond...probably not. Drops off pretty quickly! Yet my youngest son has a blog...

The great un-edited Ganges of information... simultaneously holy and full of shit indeed - That's the most apt metaphor I've ever run across for the Internet. I'm just going to go ahead and tell you that I am stealing/adding that one to my vocabulary.

And I think a lot of people use the Internet for googling themselves.... although I may be talking about something much less appropriate :)

urcuzzn
05-20-2013, 11:27 AM
well put rick
i have been using the same stone knives for 40 years.
post-fire pete , fellow curmudgeon

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
05-20-2013, 11:58 AM
It's the great un-edited Ganges of information...holy and filled with shit at the same time.

Can that be a sticky all by itself? If not I'm getting that tattooed on my body somewhere so that neither I nor anyone I talk to ever forgets it.

Robert Renick
05-20-2013, 03:34 PM
I make the difference to myself of what I know and what I have learned. I have learned quite a bit from forums, and a great Charles Fox class, but when I have actually worked through the process and made and used the jigs, I start moving towards knowing something.

dustartist
05-20-2013, 08:08 PM
I'm not Beethoven....

Rick Turner
05-20-2013, 08:23 PM
And some actually have something to offer, while some just want to see their words immortalized in the virtual world...whatever the quality of those words may be...or not...

"Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one If you can't lend a hand ..."

You should know the next line.

Markr1
05-21-2013, 12:38 AM
I'm not a buffer from satin to gloss but I might play one on the ukulele underground.

Habanera Hal
05-21-2013, 02:20 AM
I'm not Lex Luther, but I still want to rule the world.

ChrisRCovington
05-21-2013, 02:42 AM
I'm not a luthier, probably never will be one either but I have found a love of building instruments. Who knows I may even develop some level of skill with the time I put into it? I've read to truly master a skill you need to put in 10,000 hours. That is about 5 years working 40 hours per week. I'm sure some folks work longer hours and some folks take a long holiday but 5 years sounds about right. And I think that level of mastery is only mastery of the basics. After that the person must develop artistry which is never ending 'til you are dead. There aren't that many folks here that have put in that sort of time. The ones that have I take their advice and can feel pretty good about it. The ones that haven't I might take their advice but I'm going to double check it first ;)

Timbuck
05-21-2013, 02:47 AM
And some actually have something to offer, while some just want to see their words immortalized in the virtual world...whatever the quality of those words may be...or not...

"Your old road is rapidly agin'..." You should know the next line.


At first I thought you were quoting Robbie Burns when I saw that word "Agin" Mmm! Scottish dialect I said to myself :confused:...Then I realised you meant AGING :)

And it was a Bob Dylan song

Beau Hannam Ukuleles
05-21-2013, 02:55 AM
I'm not from Hawaii but,...

Pukulele Pete
05-21-2013, 03:09 AM
I'm not a dentist but I know you grab the tooth with pliers and yank.

Pukulele Pete
05-21-2013, 03:21 AM
I am not a Lutheran, nor do I play one on TV
That was good !

mm stan
05-21-2013, 03:30 AM
How many ukes until you consider yourself a luthier and does it count if you are in the learning stage but have beneficial Advice ?????

David Newton
05-21-2013, 03:55 AM
You are not a luthier until you have built a Lute.

Skinny Money McGee
05-21-2013, 04:15 AM
I really need this explaining to me because it comes up frequently when questions are asked. Why do people preface ill-informed opinion by stating "I'm not a luthier..." ? How can anyone give informed advice - and this is what this forum exists for: real experience, real advice - when they haven't had the experience. I'm mystified :) It would be like me advising the dentist who has just pulled my tooth this afternoon, how to perform the proceedure wouldn't it?

I'm not a Luthier, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night

konut
05-21-2013, 04:26 AM
That was good !

Mahalo Nui Loa!

tobinsuke
05-21-2013, 06:13 AM
And some actually have something to offer, while some just want to see their words immortalized in the virtual world...whatever the quality of those words may be...or not...

"Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one If you can't lend a hand ..."

You should know the next line.

Funny thing (not ha ha) about that song.... aside from the word "congressmen" rooting it in America, I think anyone any time in history would have to nod their head to this one. Truly universal, and always appropriate. Dylan's definitely got perspective.

gerardg
05-21-2013, 06:15 AM
Bill Collings speaking about himself:
" My name is....& I'm guitars maker".
11:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b6e0AvYjUI

Wicked
05-21-2013, 07:22 AM
You are not a luthier until you have built a Lute.

You, sir, are very literally correct.

Pondoro
05-21-2013, 01:11 PM
I've received good advice on these forums from professionals and amateurs alike. Often the advice from several people is conflicting, then the user must make the final decision. I have great appreciation for all the advice I have received. One gentleman who makes and sells custom ukes took the time to walk me through my first set-up on a $60 uke. His patience and his gracious attitude were impressive. I do not know if he calls himself a luthier or not, but I will call him a kind human.

erich@muttcrew.net
05-22-2013, 06:03 AM
Quick, honey, start the camcorder - there are demigods around here, and look, the followers are rubbing them with balsam.... :bowdown:

Wicked
05-22-2013, 07:20 AM
Would the demigod be visable in the video recording, or would he/she/it just appear as a bright light?

I'm not a cinematographer, so I am unqualified to make that judgement.