Anyone replace the Pegheds on a Collings uke? Gotoh UPT's?

I've got a nice Collings concert ukulele that I love everything about, except one thing - I just don't like the Pegheds. I know all the arguments for and against Pegheds. I'm not trying to start a Peghed debate here as that's been done and generally doesn't lead to a good place. Some love 'em, some hate 'em. I'm somewhere in between, but lean toward dislike. I do like them for their minimal weight contribution and I like the 4:1 gear. However, I'm not crazy about the look, and I really dont like the feel. [Deleted] Again, this is a personal preference commentary, not bashing someone's product.

Anyway, I also have a nice little Black Bear soprano that has the Gotoh UPT's. They're nice tuners, and much more to my liking. Has anyone here ever replaced the Pegheds on a Collings with something else? Are there opinions as to whether UPT's would work well on a Collings, or is there a better solution out there?

Thanks!

-Steve

John Kinnard (KinnardUkes.com) just replaced a set of pegheads on one of his tenors with the new GoTohs UPTS and they look great. They weigh a little bit more but nothing that makes a huge difference. It's just a matter of reaming out the tapered holes used for the Pegheads to 10mm for the GoTohs. They look very clean and it's a pretty straight forward (i.e.easy) retrofit.

Kevdog said:

It's just a matter of reaming out the tapered holes used for the Pegheads to 10mm for the GoTohs. They look very clean and it's a pretty straight forward (i.e.easy) retrofit.

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Kevdog,

Thanks for the reply. I've got a violin reamer from previous uke projects. Does it matter if the hole is tapered for the UPT's, or should it ideally be a straight hole? Any issues removing the Pegheds and breaking the glue bond?

Telperion said:

Kevdog,

Thanks for the reply. I've got a violin reamer from previous uke projects. Does it matter if the hole is tapered for the UPT's, or should it ideally be a straight hole? Any issues removing the Pegheds and breaking the glue bond?

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The only concern in replacing the Pegheds with Gotoh UPT tuners is the headstock thickness. If the headstock is more the 1/2" thick, then you can use the UPTL tuners. They are exactly the same expect for the headstock thickness requirements. To install the UPT's, the hole diameter is 3/8" in diameter. The Peghed hole will need reaming just a bit, and the hole doesn't have to straight.

Josh Gemmell from japarts says:

The crossovers are:
UPT 0.394" - 0.472"
UPTL 0.453" - 0.531"

Thanks for the comments, Folks! Duane, thanks for reminding me about the headstock thickness. The Collings headstock is slightly tapered, being a little thicker near the nut. My digital caliper gives me a measure of 0.522" for the thickness (at the center of the holes) near the nut, and 0.470" (on center of holes) near the top of the headstock, so the UPTL looks to be necessary.

Still not sure I'm going to do this, but it seems possible. Anyone out there think I'm crazy? Is this sacrilege in the world of Collings ukes?

I don't have a collings, but it's your uke, do what you want.

It's not sacrilege, but it'll knock down the resale price some.

I've got a Collings with the Pegheds and a Kamaka with the Gotoh UPTs and like both kinds of tuners very much. If I had a ukulele with friction tuners (that wasn't collectable) I wouldn't hesitate to put on the UPTs, but I don't think I'd switch one geared tuner for the other. I also think the Pegheds go nicely with the clean looks of the Collings and echo what Ralf said, that the resale value might be affected.

I am a PEGHED distributor, but, I speak as a user...not as a seller. You mention delrin parts internally, but there are none. The ring gear which is the shaft is anodized aluminum. The three gears and the center shaft are made of the same steel as expensive allen wrenches. The come from the factory which makes both allen wrenches and the gears. Any of the "slop" you feel, goes away when one gently pushes up on the bottom of the grip. I do not know what kind of glue Collings uses to install them. You might write or call and ask them. If they use cyanoacrylate (called crazy glue) you will have a horrible time getting them out.
We suggest using regular wood workers yellow glue. Quite a few of the builders do not use any glue at all. If Collings uses crazy glue, and you really want them out, would you consider having them remove them? From what I have been told by the fellow who makes them (Chuck Herin) he pulls the grips off and holds heat to the shaft to break the bond. There are two shaft lengths to PEGHEDS, and Collings uses the longer ones. There will be a very noticeable difference in the balance between Gotohs and PEGHEDS. I have a brass body resonator ukulele with SGH 318 Gotohs on it because it would be unbalanced with PEGHEDS. If you want more info about pulling out the PEGHEDS, please do not hesitate to contact me. Even though I did not sell them to Collings, I do know they have a lifetime warranty to function properly.

TheCraftedCow said:

I am a PEGHED distributor, but, I speak as a user...not as a seller....

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Bill,

This is what I meant when I said I didn't want to start a debate over the virtues of Pegheds. I've purchased Pegheds from you in the past for other projects. I know them, and their construction, quite well. They have their place, I'll give you that, but they simply are not my personal preference. I should have left my commentary at that, and not gotten into the "why" of it (I've gone back and removed this from my original post). I realize that people install these in ultra-expensive violins, but I also know that I'm not alone in my opinion about the feel of them. Anyway, I've made a decision to leave the Collings as it is, and not risk lowering the resale value. Pegheds will stay.

Thanks to all for your comments. I think Tim's point about 'not switching one geared tuner for another,' and Ralf's point about resale pushed me to my decision. Again, thanks for the input. My dilemma is resolved. Mods, feel free to close this thread.

Regards,

-Steve

I may change my Pegheds out on my Mya Moes for the same reasons, telperion. I have to see if the headstock is 1/2 inch or more thick (I think it may not be) as BBUke states. Thanks for bringing up the subject and I learned from your thread. I love Gotoh planetary that I have on my Aturias from HMS. Again, thank you,

coolkayaker,

Thanks for your comment too. I didn't think I was alone here. Part of my problem too is that I like to try new things - new combinations of strings, components, and of course, new ukes! I know that balance can be affected, but there are many nice, very light, ukes out there that don't have Pegheds, and they are just fine. The Collings is one of the lighter builds, and the balance is great with the Pegheds, but I just can't see switching to UPT's ruining the feel of the ukulele. Whatever the case, as I said, I won't be changing them over. I'll redirect my desire to "change things up" to maybe picking up something new instead. I am considering putting my UC2 up for sale, but there are quite a few Collings in the marketplace currently, so I may test the ebay waters.

Telperion said:

coolkayaker,

Thanks for your comment too. I didn't think I was alone here. Part of my problem too is that I like to try new things - new combinations of strings, components, and of course, new ukes! I know that balance can be affected, but there are many nice, very light, ukes out there that don't have Pegheds, and they are just fine. The Collings is one of the lighter builds, and the balance is great with the Pegheds, but I just can't see switching to UPT's ruining the feel of the ukulele. Whatever the case, as I said, I won't be changing them over. I'll redirect my desire to "change things up" to maybe picking up something new instead. I am considering putting my UC2 up for sale, but there are quite a few Collings in the marketplace currently, so I may test the ebay waters.

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Changing out the Pegheds for the UPT's is not going to change the balance of the instrument. I have used the UPT's on a sopranino size uke with excellent results, they are not heavy. Second, changing out the tuners for another set on any instrument is not going to ruin its value. Tuners can be removed and replaced and have been for years.

BlackBearUkes said:

Changing out the Pegheds for the UPT's is not going to change the balance of the instrument. I have used the UPT's on a sopranino size uke with excellent results, they are not heavy.

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Thanks for that point, Duane. I have always disagreed with the argument that anything other than Pegheds is going to ruin the balance. The UPT's aren't heavy, and I love them on my BB soprano pineapple.

-Steve

Same versus Change

Is there any indication that Collings is going to stop making the model of ukulele you have? Would it be true to say although it is expensive, it is not rare? Changing tuners has just as much of a chance of adding value as it has of decreasing it when it comes to resale. If you think it will look nicer with other tuners, so will others. Their use of a 27.5mm shaft puts more out the back than what there would be with the model with a 19mm long shaft. Were I to have one, changing models would happen before it even got tuned and played.

Well folks, yes, I've done it. I replaced the pegheds on my UT2 with gotoh UPTLs. You have to use the longer ones. No problem, they work great. I have another Collings that has pegheds and I don't notice the difference in weight. I don't dislike pegheds, but Gotohs have a more secure action to them. I like the way they look and I think they're a bit easier to use. Removing the pegheds may or may not be problematic - depends on how stuck they are. My original pegheds were quite loose.
I bought this particular uke used and I doubt it's resale value has been impacted, but I use it all the time so it doesn't really matter to me.

Doug

wendellfiddler said:

Well folks, yes, I've done it. I replaced the pegheds on my UT2 with gotoh UPTLs. You have to use the longer ones. No problem, they work great. I have another Collings that has pegheds and I don't notice the difference in weight. I don't dislike pegheds, but Gotohs have a more secure action to them.

Doug

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Great! You took the plunge! Glad to hear someone confirm (in a side by side comparison) that the weight difference is negligible. It's also nice to hear someone agree about the 'secure action.' Good job, Doug!

I chickened out and instead simply sold my Collings. That money is going into a new Ko'olau.

-Steve

wendellfiddler said:

Well folks, yes, I've done it. I replaced the pegheds on my UT2 with gotoh UPTLs. You have to use the longer ones. No problem, they work great. I have another Collings that has pegheds and I don't notice the difference in weight. I don't dislike pegheds, but Gotohs have a more secure action to them. I like the way they look and I think they're a bit easier to use. Removing the pegheds may or may not be problematic - depends on how stuck they are. My original pegheds were quite loose.
I bought this particular uke used and I doubt it's resale value has been impacted, but I use it all the time so it doesn't really matter to me.

Doug

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Inspiring, wendelfiddler. How much reaming did u have to do?

coolkayaker1 said:

Inspiring, wendelfiddler. How much reaming did u have to do?

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I used a violin peg reamer and then the proper size drill bit (by hand). No problem. I experimented first with a piece of mahogany that was about the same thickness. I definitely needed the long upt's. The Collings headstock is tapered, but that poses no problem, the Gotohs fit perfectly.