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View Full Version : Anyone replace the Pegheds on a Collings uke? Gotoh UPT's?



Telperion
05-30-2013, 09:08 AM
I've got a nice Collings concert ukulele that I love everything about, except one thing - I just don't like the Pegheds. I know all the arguments for and against Pegheds. I'm not trying to start a Peghed debate here as that's been done and generally doesn't lead to a good place. Some love 'em, some hate 'em. I'm somewhere in between, but lean toward dislike. I do like them for their minimal weight contribution and I like the 4:1 gear. However, I'm not crazy about the look, and I really dont like the feel. [Deleted] Again, this is a personal preference commentary, not bashing someone's product.

Anyway, I also have a nice little Black Bear soprano that has the Gotoh UPT's. They're nice tuners, and much more to my liking. Has anyone here ever replaced the Pegheds on a Collings with something else? Are there opinions as to whether UPT's would work well on a Collings, or is there a better solution out there?

Thanks!

-Steve

Kevdog
05-30-2013, 09:16 AM
John Kinnard (KinnardUkes.com) just replaced a set of pegheads on one of his tenors with the new GoTohs UPTS and they look great. They weigh a little bit more but nothing that makes a huge difference. It's just a matter of reaming out the tapered holes used for the Pegheads to 10mm for the GoTohs. They look very clean and it's a pretty straight forward (i.e.easy) retrofit.

Telperion
05-30-2013, 09:26 AM
It's just a matter of reaming out the tapered holes used for the Pegheads to 10mm for the GoTohs. They look very clean and it's a pretty straight forward (i.e.easy) retrofit.

Kevdog,

Thanks for the reply. I've got a violin reamer from previous uke projects. Does it matter if the hole is tapered for the UPT's, or should it ideally be a straight hole? Any issues removing the Pegheds and breaking the glue bond?

BlackBearUkes
05-30-2013, 11:06 AM
Kevdog,

Thanks for the reply. I've got a violin reamer from previous uke projects. Does it matter if the hole is tapered for the UPT's, or should it ideally be a straight hole? Any issues removing the Pegheds and breaking the glue bond?

The only concern in replacing the Pegheds with Gotoh UPT tuners is the headstock thickness. If the headstock is more the 1/2" thick, then you can use the UPTL tuners. They are exactly the same expect for the headstock thickness requirements. To install the UPT's, the hole diameter is 3/8" in diameter. The Peghed hole will need reaming just a bit, and the hole doesn't have to straight.

Skinny Money McGee
05-30-2013, 11:18 AM
Josh Gemmell from japarts says:

The crossovers are:
UPT 0.394" - 0.472"
UPTL 0.453" - 0.531"

Telperion
05-30-2013, 02:23 PM
Thanks for the comments, Folks! Duane, thanks for reminding me about the headstock thickness. The Collings headstock is slightly tapered, being a little thicker near the nut. My digital caliper gives me a measure of 0.522" for the thickness (at the center of the holes) near the nut, and 0.470" (on center of holes) near the top of the headstock, so the UPTL looks to be necessary.

Still not sure I'm going to do this, but it seems possible. Anyone out there think I'm crazy? Is this sacrilege in the world of Collings ukes?

strumsilly
05-30-2013, 02:53 PM
I don't have a collings, but it's your uke, do what you want.

TheOnlyUkeThatMatters
05-30-2013, 02:56 PM
It's not sacrilege, but it'll knock down the resale price some.

Tim Mullins
05-30-2013, 03:46 PM
I've got a Collings with the Pegheds and a Kamaka with the Gotoh UPTs and like both kinds of tuners very much. If I had a ukulele with friction tuners (that wasn't collectable) I wouldn't hesitate to put on the UPTs, but I don't think I'd switch one geared tuner for the other. I also think the Pegheds go nicely with the clean looks of the Collings and echo what Ralf said, that the resale value might be affected.

TheCraftedCow
05-31-2013, 12:25 AM
I am a PEGHED distributor, but, I speak as a user...not as a seller. You mention delrin parts internally, but there are none. The ring gear which is the shaft is anodized aluminum. The three gears and the center shaft are made of the same steel as expensive allen wrenches. The come from the factory which makes both allen wrenches and the gears. Any of the "slop" you feel, goes away when one gently pushes up on the bottom of the grip. I do not know what kind of glue Collings uses to install them. You might write or call and ask them. If they use cyanoacrylate (called crazy glue) you will have a horrible time getting them out.
We suggest using regular wood workers yellow glue. Quite a few of the builders do not use any glue at all. If Collings uses crazy glue, and you really want them out, would you consider having them remove them? From what I have been told by the fellow who makes them (Chuck Herin) he pulls the grips off and holds heat to the shaft to break the bond. There are two shaft lengths to PEGHEDS, and Collings uses the longer ones. There will be a very noticeable difference in the balance between Gotohs and PEGHEDS. I have a brass body resonator ukulele with SGH 318 Gotohs on it because it would be unbalanced with PEGHEDS. If you want more info about pulling out the PEGHEDS, please do not hesitate to contact me. Even though I did not sell them to Collings, I do know they have a lifetime warranty to function properly.

Telperion
05-31-2013, 04:32 AM
I am a PEGHED distributor, but, I speak as a user...not as a seller....


Bill,

This is what I meant when I said I didn't want to start a debate over the virtues of Pegheds. I've purchased Pegheds from you in the past for other projects. I know them, and their construction, quite well. They have their place, I'll give you that, but they simply are not my personal preference. I should have left my commentary at that, and not gotten into the "why" of it (I've gone back and removed this from my original post). I realize that people install these in ultra-expensive violins, but I also know that I'm not alone in my opinion about the feel of them. Anyway, I've made a decision to leave the Collings as it is, and not risk lowering the resale value. Pegheds will stay.

Thanks to all for your comments. I think Tim's point about 'not switching one geared tuner for another,' and Ralf's point about resale pushed me to my decision. Again, thanks for the input. My dilemma is resolved. Mods, feel free to close this thread.

Regards,

-Steve

coolkayaker1
05-31-2013, 04:59 AM
I may change my Pegheds out on my Mya Moes for the same reasons, telperion. I have to see if the headstock is 1/2 inch or more thick (I think it may not be) as BBUke states. Thanks for bringing up the subject and I learned from your thread. I love Gotoh planetary that I have on my Aturias from HMS. Again, thank you,

Telperion
05-31-2013, 06:05 AM
coolkayaker,

Thanks for your comment too. I didn't think I was alone here. Part of my problem too is that I like to try new things - new combinations of strings, components, and of course, new ukes! I know that balance can be affected, but there are many nice, very light, ukes out there that don't have Pegheds, and they are just fine. The Collings is one of the lighter builds, and the balance is great with the Pegheds, but I just can't see switching to UPT's ruining the feel of the ukulele. Whatever the case, as I said, I won't be changing them over. I'll redirect my desire to "change things up" to maybe picking up something new instead. I am considering putting my UC2 up for sale, but there are quite a few Collings in the marketplace currently, so I may test the ebay waters.

BlackBearUkes
05-31-2013, 10:59 AM
coolkayaker,

Thanks for your comment too. I didn't think I was alone here. Part of my problem too is that I like to try new things - new combinations of strings, components, and of course, new ukes! I know that balance can be affected, but there are many nice, very light, ukes out there that don't have Pegheds, and they are just fine. The Collings is one of the lighter builds, and the balance is great with the Pegheds, but I just can't see switching to UPT's ruining the feel of the ukulele. Whatever the case, as I said, I won't be changing them over. I'll redirect my desire to "change things up" to maybe picking up something new instead. I am considering putting my UC2 up for sale, but there are quite a few Collings in the marketplace currently, so I may test the ebay waters.

Changing out the Pegheds for the UPT's is not going to change the balance of the instrument. I have used the UPT's on a sopranino size uke with excellent results, they are not heavy. Second, changing out the tuners for another set on any instrument is not going to ruin its value. Tuners can be removed and replaced and have been for years.

Telperion
05-31-2013, 11:22 AM
Changing out the Pegheds for the UPT's is not going to change the balance of the instrument. I have used the UPT's on a sopranino size uke with excellent results, they are not heavy.

Thanks for that point, Duane. I have always disagreed with the argument that anything other than Pegheds is going to ruin the balance. The UPT's aren't heavy, and I love them on my BB soprano pineapple.

-Steve

TheCraftedCow
06-02-2013, 10:30 PM
Is there any indication that Collings is going to stop making the model of ukulele you have? Would it be true to say although it is expensive, it is not rare? Changing tuners has just as much of a chance of adding value as it has of decreasing it when it comes to resale. If you think it will look nicer with other tuners, so will others. Their use of a 27.5mm shaft puts more out the back than what there would be with the model with a 19mm long shaft. Were I to have one, changing models would happen before it even got tuned and played.

wendellfiddler
06-05-2013, 01:22 PM
Well folks, yes, I've done it. I replaced the pegheds on my UT2 with gotoh UPTLs. You have to use the longer ones. No problem, they work great. I have another Collings that has pegheds and I don't notice the difference in weight. I don't dislike pegheds, but Gotohs have a more secure action to them. I like the way they look and I think they're a bit easier to use. Removing the pegheds may or may not be problematic - depends on how stuck they are. My original pegheds were quite loose.
I bought this particular uke used and I doubt it's resale value has been impacted, but I use it all the time so it doesn't really matter to me.

Doug

Telperion
06-05-2013, 05:09 PM
Well folks, yes, I've done it. I replaced the pegheds on my UT2 with gotoh UPTLs. You have to use the longer ones. No problem, they work great. I have another Collings that has pegheds and I don't notice the difference in weight. I don't dislike pegheds, but Gotohs have a more secure action to them.

Doug

Great! You took the plunge! Glad to hear someone confirm (in a side by side comparison) that the weight difference is negligible. It's also nice to hear someone agree about the 'secure action.' Good job, Doug!

I chickened out and instead simply sold my Collings. That money is going into a new Ko'olau.

-Steve

coolkayaker1
06-05-2013, 06:09 PM
Well folks, yes, I've done it. I replaced the pegheds on my UT2 with gotoh UPTLs. You have to use the longer ones. No problem, they work great. I have another Collings that has pegheds and I don't notice the difference in weight. I don't dislike pegheds, but Gotohs have a more secure action to them. I like the way they look and I think they're a bit easier to use. Removing the pegheds may or may not be problematic - depends on how stuck they are. My original pegheds were quite loose.
I bought this particular uke used and I doubt it's resale value has been impacted, but I use it all the time so it doesn't really matter to me.

Doug

Inspiring, wendelfiddler. How much reaming did u have to do?

wendellfiddler
06-06-2013, 02:19 AM
5408354084
Inspiring, wendelfiddler. How much reaming did u have to do?

I used a violin peg reamer and then the proper size drill bit (by hand). No problem. I experimented first with a piece of mahogany that was about the same thickness. I definitely needed the long upt's. The Collings headstock is tapered, but that poses no problem, the Gotohs fit perfectly.

coolkayaker1
06-06-2013, 06:16 AM
5408354084

I used a violin peg reamer and then the proper size drill bit (by hand). No problem. I experimented first with a piece of mahogany that was about the same thickness. I definitely needed the long upt's. The Collings headstock is tapered, but that poses no problem, the Gotohs fit perfectly.

Thank you.

Wow, superb! Those Gotoh UPTs (and I have them too on my Asturias and love them) look like jewels on that headstock. They really do. I just may give this a whirl on one of my Mya Moes--even though the Pegheds are the "signature" tuner on those, I know. I'd pick one I was not planning to sell.

Perhaps you could resell the PegHeds here (as I think you did with some other tuners a while back), wendellfiddler.

Thanks again.

wendellfiddler
06-06-2013, 08:20 AM
Yes, I have a set of brand new, unused pegheds I would be happy to sell - not the ones that came off the Collings though. As to Mya Moe, I believe they would work well. I have a Mya Moe and another Collings with Pegheds on them. I have no plans to change them right now, but might do it someday.

Doug

Telperion
06-06-2013, 09:53 AM
Nice work, wendellfiddler. Thanks for sharing the photos. It looks sharp!

Highstrung
09-15-2013, 04:18 PM
I am a PEGHED distributor, but, I speak as a user...not as a seller. You mention delrin parts internally, but there are none. The ring gear which is the shaft is anodized aluminum. The three gears and the center shaft are made of the same steel as expensive allen wrenches. The come from the factory which makes both allen wrenches and the gears. Any of the "slop" you feel, goes away when one gently pushes up on the bottom of the grip. I do not know what kind of glue Collings uses to install them. You might write or call and ask them. If they use cyanoacrylate (called crazy glue) you will have a horrible time getting them out.
We suggest using regular wood workers yellow glue. Quite a few of the builders do not use any glue at all. If Collings uses crazy glue, and you really want them out, would you consider having them remove them? From what I have been told by the fellow who makes them (Chuck Herin) he pulls the grips off and holds heat to the shaft to break the bond. There are two shaft lengths to PEGHEDS, and Collings uses the longer ones. There will be a very noticeable difference in the balance between Gotohs and PEGHEDS. I have a brass body resonator ukulele with SGH 318 Gotohs on it because it would be unbalanced with PEGHEDS. If you want more info about pulling out the PEGHEDS, please do not hesitate to contact me. Even though I did not sell them to Collings, I do know they have a lifetime warranty to function properly.

Hi TheCraftedCow -

I hope you see this; I tried through the private forum mail to reach you some days ago but I know it's not always reliable.

In your posting about removing Pegheds, you offered to give further information about removing Pegheds. I hope the offer is still available!

The problem I'm trying to solve concerns my wife's treble viola da gamba. She had Pegheds installed, but the job was done very badly (I won't mention by whom). I believe fast-setting epoxy was used.

The problem I'm trying to solve (I've done some instrument repair work) is this: the Pegheds were incorrectly installed so that there is space left around each Peghed shaft in the inside walls of the peg box. --In other words, the installer reamed the peg holes large enough, I think, to accommodate the outer portion of the Peghed shafts, but did not fit the Pegheds so that this outer portion of each Peghed shaft goes all the way through the walls of the peg box.

As a result, the strings get wound and abraded inside these extra spaces in the inside walls of the peg box.

To remedy this, my thought is to try to remove the Pegheds, then ream the peg holes somewhat larger so the outer portion of the shafts can go all the way through the peg box walls (eliminating the extra space around each shaft), and then re-glue.

I'm hoping that heat will soften the glue that was used, but don't know how much heat to apply, or how.

Any suggestions would be a great help!