Hawaii builders: climate controled shop?

rickmorgan2003 · Jun 13, 2013

Shout out to all you luthiers out there in Hawaii. My wife and I are looking at moving to the big island and I have concerns about the humidity and my wood working. I have only worked in climate control environments before and I noticed looking at properties that almost anyone who has shop space on the property has it open aired. How does one get wood moisture content to a stable level. Typically I work with my wood when it's 9-18%. I can't imagine it would get close to that in the island air.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles · Jun 13, 2013

It's simple. You need to build an insulated climate controlled room with both an air conditioner and dehumidifier. Wood at 9% - 18% is still green. You gotta get it down to 6% to 7% before you can start building instruments with it.

Liam Ryan · Jun 13, 2013

Does the room run 24/7 chuck? How much do you guy pay per kilowatt for power? Hang on, that's metric. You guys would measure power in foot-calories or something wouldn't you?

Moore Bettah Ukuleles · Jun 13, 2013

Liam Ryan said:
Does the room run 24/7 chuck? How much do you guy pay per kilowatt for power? Hang on, that's metric. You guys would measure power in foot-calories or something wouldn't you?

I generate my own electricity (@ 3000 watts peak) so I can't quote you costs. Doesn't matter what it costs though, if I couldn't build in a controlled environment I wouldn't build at all. AC and dehumidifier is shut down when the sun goes down. At that tome all works in progress get moved into a dry cabinet which is kept at 45% by the aid of a small dehumidifier. The CC room is very well sealed and insulated so the RH only goes up a few % overnight.

hapuna · Jun 14, 2013

Electricity is EXPENSIVE in Hawaii for obvious reasons

ksquine · Jun 14, 2013

Oh the hardships of living in Hawaii. My heart is bleeding all over the place for ya

taylordb · Jun 14, 2013

Chuck, how big is your climate controlled room?
Also, I'm guessing that all your major equipment is located outside of that.... i.e. you take the wood outside to do your main cutting and thicknessing, and then back to the CC room?

Moore Bettah Ukuleles · Jun 14, 2013

taylordb said:
Chuck, how big is your climate controlled room?
Also, I'm guessing that all your major equipment is located outside of that.... i.e. you take the wood outside to do your main cutting and thicknessing, and then back to the CC room?

Build room is 220 sq ft, "dirty room" is 400 sq ft. Other rooms include spray room and wood storage. All gluing and building takes place in the build room (probably is why it's called that) along with storage for wood sets, fret boards, etc.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles · Jun 14, 2013

taylordb said:
Chuck, how big is your climate controlled room?
Also, I'm guessing that all your major equipment is located outside of that.... i.e. you take the wood outside to do your main cutting and thicknessing, and then back to the CC room?

Build room is 220 sq ft, "dirty room" is 400 sq ft. Other rooms include spray room and wood storage. All gluing and building takes place in the build room (probably is why it's called that) along with storage for wood sets, fret boards, etc.

rickmorgan2003 · Jun 14, 2013

Moore Bettah Ukuleles said:
I generate my own electricity (@ 3000 watts peak) so I can't quote you costs. Doesn't matter what it costs though, if I couldn't build in a controlled environment I wouldn't build at all. AC and dehumidifier is shut down when the sun goes down. At that tome all works in progress get moved into a dry cabinet which is kept at 45% by the aid of a small dehumidifier. The CC room is very well sealed and insulated so the RH only goes up a few % overnight.

I was thinking along the same lines, I want my place to be off the grid as much as possible. So few people in my area do solar because the sun hours/day is so low it would take 30 years to recoup costs. So many different things to think about living there vs here.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles · Jun 14, 2013

rickmorgan2003 said:
I want my place to be off the grid as much as possible.

Be careful what you wish for. I'm totally off grid and have no choice. Even with a moderately sized 3.2 kw system I am constantly playing energy cop, running from this room to that room, turning various things off and on. On days when it rains I have to adjust my shop schedule accordingly. When I'm putting a heavy load on my shop then my generator is on as well. Even so, there are some days when I have to postpone my spraying or resawing. You will also be restricted to the size of machinery you can have. Being off grid sounds pretty unless you've got some real work that needs to be done. On the other hand it works perfectly well for simple residential living.
If possible, try to do solar with grid tie capabilities. Otherwise, if you are involving storage batteries in the system like I am, solar power is neither cheap nor particularly green. Batteries are the weak link in a photovoteic system.

rickmorgan2003 · Jun 14, 2013

Moore Bettah Ukuleles said:
Be careful what you wish for. I'm totally off grid and have no choice. Even with a moderately sized 3.2 kw system I am constantly playing energy cop, running from this room to that room, turning various things off and on. On days when it rains I have to adjust my shop schedule accordingly. When I'm putting a heavy load on my shop then my generator is on as well. Even so, there are some days when I have to postpone my spraying or resawing. You will also be restricted to the size of machinery you can have. Being off grid sounds pretty unless you've got some real work that needs to be done. On the other hand it works perfectly well for simple residential living.
If possible, try to do solar with grid tie capabilities. Otherwise, if you are involving storage batteries in the system like I am, solar power is neither cheap nor particularly green. Batteries are the weak link in a photovoteic system.

Thanks for the advise Chuck. My shop isn't going to be a business so wouldn't be using it as hard as you I would guess but I was wondering about whether to be tied to the grid as a back up. We are still figuring out where on the big island we want to be. We were considering out you way but I heard you get a lot of rain that way hense the climate controlled shop I guess

Maybe when I get out to check things out in the fall I could pick your brain about the area over a couple of beers.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles · Jun 14, 2013

rickmorgan2003 said:
My shop isn't going to be a business so wouldn't be using it as hard as you I would guess but I was wondering about whether to be tied to the grid as a back up. We are still figuring out where on the big island we want to be.

Many areas on Big Island aren't connected to the grid so you won't have a choice if you locate there. Of course, some of the off-grid locations are the most beautiful. Choose wisely.

mzuch · Jun 14, 2013

So few people in my area do solar because the sun hours/day is so low it would take 30 years to recoup costs.

This wouldn't be the case if U.S. electric utilities allowed consumers to sell unused solar power back to the grid, as they do in Germany. Also, some companies are now leasing solar panels, which dramatically reduces the upfront costs. Solar power is becoming more economical every day, but the resistance from coal and nuclear power companies is formidable. Lobby your elected representatives!

Moore Bettah Ukuleles · Jun 14, 2013

mzuch said:
This wouldn't be the case if U.S. electric utilities allowed consumers to sell unused solar power back to the grid, as they do in Germany. Also, some companies are now leasing solar panels, which dramatically reduces the upfront costs. Solar power is becoming more economical every day, but the resistance from coal and nuclear power companies is formidable. Lobby your elected representatives!

It's no different here in Hawaii and in much of the USA. Plus there are a lot of federal and state tax advantages. Still, you need to be grid tied which isn't an option in many cases. It costs me $3000 a year out of pocket just for batteries.

HarryCobb · Oct 17, 2013

Moore Bettah Ukuleles said:
Be careful what you wish for. I'm totally off grid and have no choice. Even with a moderately sized 3.2 kw system I am constantly playing energy cop, running from this room to that room, turning various things off and on. On days when it rains I have to adjust my shop schedule accordingly. When I'm putting a heavy load on my shop then my generator is on as well. Even so, there are some days when I have to postpone my spraying or resawing. You will also be restricted to the size of machinery you can have. Being off grid sounds pretty unless you've got some real work that needs to be done. On the other hand it works perfectly well for simple residential living.
If possible, try to do solar with grid tie capabilities. Otherwise, if you are involving storage batteries in the system like I am, solar panel is neither cheap nor particularly green. Batteries are the weak link in a photovoteic system.

It is possible but using solar power is very expensive initially.. For this you need perfect location with nice amount of sunshine long season

Hawaii builders: climate controled shop?

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