Growing pains.

hoosierhiver · Jan 8, 2009

I really love UU! The folks here are so nice, supportive and knowledgable. I've made and keep making good friends here. So it's sad to see so much controversy on the contest thread. As I said before,we are a passionate bunch,and with that passion comes strong feelings that maybe aren't always expressed as well as they could be.We are all human and of course no ones perfect,but I think I can safely say that UU has really got something special here.The comradery here is unmatched.Some of the other ukulele forums are downright acrimonious (big word!).With some of our fantastic folks here keeping the mood positive,I don't expect that UU will devolve into anything less than the wonderful home it has been for me and many others.

mctrmt · Jan 8, 2009

Hear hear!

E-Lo Roberts · Jan 8, 2009

hoosierhiver said:
I really love UU! The folks here are so nice, supportive and knowledgable. I've made and keep making good friends here. So it's sad to see so much controversy on the contest thread. As I said before,we are a passionate bunch,and with that passion comes strong feelings that maybe aren't always expressed as well as they could be.We are all human and of course no ones perfect,but I think I can safely say that UU has really got something special here.The comradery here is unmatched.Some of the other ukulele forums are downright acrimonious (big word!).With some of our fantastic folks here keeping the mood positive,I don't expect that UU will devolve into anything less than the wonderful home it has been for me and many others.

Hoosierhiver, I'm with you brother...

In the 60's, a counter-culture movement was started on the premise of "peace, love, and togetherness" in the district of Haight-Ashbury of San Francisco. As it’s popularity grew, the ideals of the original concept was smothered by outside interests that spread hate and dischord within.

It will be curious to check the climate at UU in a few years. Hopefully it will continue to grow, yet still, promote similar values amongst it's members.

...Peace, Love, & Peanut Butter...e.lo...

Plainsong · Jan 8, 2009

But we should still be able to disagree without being called "haters" - I mean there's a reason that creative types feel cheated after such contests, and there are lots of reasons why these contests are actually really bad ideas to enter.

SamWise · Jan 8, 2009

I have mixed feelings. I didn't feel cheated, and I was glad I entered, but I thought that some of the results were just off the scale weird. That said, I felt bad after reading and contributing to that thread, and wish now that I hadn't. I don't want to see this place poisoned, and I doubly don't want to be even partly responsible.

Peace love and ginger biscuits!

E-Lo Roberts · Jan 8, 2009

Samwise, don't feel bad. Remove (delete) your negative contribution from that thread. You still have the choice to do that.

...e.lo...

BTWriter · Jan 8, 2009

Though I am no legendary member, I do love this place, and will do my best to contribute more positivity than negativity- but always, always truth.

And nudity, whenever possible.

Tanizaki · Jan 8, 2009

Plainsong said:
But we should still be able to disagree without being called "haters" - I mean there's a reason that creative types feel cheated after such contests, and there are lots of reasons why these contests are actually really bad ideas to enter.

I would be interested to learn some of these reasons. If self-proclaimed "creative types" feel cheated, I suggest they reexamine their priorities.

Despite what we get told by our high school art teachers, creativity is actually quite rare. Have the "creative types" pushed back the frontiers of their arts in any fashion, or are they essentially doing, at best, variations on long-established patterns?

UkEdman90 · Jan 8, 2009

where is said "Contest Thread?" i would like to read. sry but ima little confused here.

Nurdaben · Jan 8, 2009

http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8331

enjoy

BTWriter · Jan 8, 2009

Tanizaki said:
I would be interested to learn some of these reasons. If self-proclaimed "creative types" feel cheated, I suggest they reexamine their priorities.

Despite what we get told by our high school art teachers, creativity is actually quite rare. Have the "creative types" pushed back the frontiers of their arts in any fashion, or are they essentially doing, at best, variations on long-established patterns?

"The sensual man conforms thoughts to things; the poet conforms things to his thoughts." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

Just because a person utilizes what is already there to to express ideas or "create" instead of reinventing a form of expression does not in any way degrade that person's creativity. What you are labeling as "creativity" would better be described as "genius".

I did not participate in the contest, but I can see
1: Why some would feel cheated because, in their eyes, a love of truth and expression of the same is the truest beauty, and thus should trump catchiness or cuteness.
2: Why others would feel this is unfair, because the contest was not designed to rate artistic worth and beauty, but in fact entertainment value, which is highly subjective and could just as easily hold catchiness/cuteness/pop culture to be best as anything else.

That being said, it is unfair for either side to denigrate the other's creativity or worth.

EDIT: Now can we stop the argument from spilling over into other threads, and recognize that both sides hold valid positions, and should be recognized for the merit in their respective goals and accomplishments?

UkEdman90 · Jan 8, 2009

Nurdaben said:
http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8331

enjoy

THX! NOW I GET IT!

that was a good read but meh w/e guys!

Plainsong · Jan 8, 2009

Here's an article on why contests leave can leave some feeling empty. It's about designing logos and such, and why it's bad for your business to enter such contests, but stretch the imagination a bit and apply it to music, or anything.

http://www.no-spec.com/articles/design-contests/

UkEdman90 · Jan 8, 2009

Plainsong said:
Here's an article on why contests leave can leave some feeling empty. It's about designing logos and such, and why it's bad for your business to enter such contests, but stretch the imagination a bit and apply it to music, or anything.

http://www.no-spec.com/articles/design-contests/

THAT WAS AN AWESOME FIND! TOTALLY AGREE! If All entries were not viewable i believe this would be totally different! Just like the T-Shirt Contest that was cool! Praise to the UU STAFF!

benmealer · Jan 8, 2009

I feel you, hh. I sort of see ukulele videos as a type of karaoke at their worst, some are better than others, but it's still good form to clap at the bad ones. At their best, they are about as serious as music can be. At the end of the day we're all here to have fun. I know I'm not making any money off of it

Link · Jan 8, 2009

BTWriter said:
"The sensual man conforms thoughts to things; the poet conforms things to his thoughts." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

Just because a person utilizes what is already there to to express ideas or "create" instead of reinventing a form of expression does not in any way degrade that person's creativity. What you are labeling as "creativity" would better be described as "genius".

I did not participate in the contest, but I can see
1: Why some would feel cheated because, in their eyes, a love of truth and expression of the same is the truest beauty, and thus should trump catchiness or cuteness.
2: Why others would feel this is unfair, because the contest was not designed to rate artistic worth and beauty, but in fact entertainment value, which is highly subjective and could just as easily hold catchiness/cuteness/pop culture to be best as anything else.

That being said, it is unfair for either side to denigrate the other's creativity or worth.

EDIT: Now can we stop the argument from spilling over into other threads, and recognize that both sides hold valid positions, and should be recognized for the merit in their respective goals and accomplishments?

Amen.

There's been a lot of belittling from both sides about the other's opinion. That is why the thread got ugly. Keep it positive, respect everyone's opinion, and be constructive.

1 rough topic isn't enough to bring us down... right?

haole · Jan 9, 2009

A little disagreement is healthy, but I'm glad that most threads here are a lot more laid-back than that. Still, rather than trying to revive the arguments of the previous thread about the contest, why not just put that behind us? I can see why it was closed. :B I still have faith in the UU community, and I'm not letting my opinions change about anyone who posted anything controversial in there. You guys are still awesome, and this is still by far the most welcoming, best-run, and least-pretentious forum than any other I've posted on.

Tanizaki · Jan 9, 2009

BTWriter said:
"The sensual man conforms thoughts to things; the poet conforms things to his thoughts." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

"It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations." - Winston Churchill

Do you not see the slightest bit of irony in beginning a paean to creativity with someone else's words?

Just because a person utilizes what is already there to to express ideas or "create" instead of reinventing a form of expression does not in any way degrade that person's creativity. What you are labeling as "creativity" would better be described as "genius".

Yes, it does. Creation is the development of something fundamentally new. If something doesn't meet that criteria, it isn't creative. I am not making a value judgment; I am simply stating a fact. Many great songs are simply the I-IV-V progression. Those songs are not creative works. There is a modest level of creativity in that they have different words and tempos, but they are fundamentally the same.

1: Why some would feel cheated because, in their eyes, a love of truth and expression of the same is the truest beauty, and thus should trump catchiness or cuteness.

If they feel cheated, they should feel cheated by their English teachers who left them unable to read the contest's stated criteria, which were about entertainment and humor, not "truest beauty". It's like obese women crying that they can't win the Miss America contest and whining about their "inner beauty".

2: Why others would feel this is unfair, because the contest was not designed to rate artistic worth and beauty, but in fact entertainment value, which is highly subjective and could just as easily hold catchiness/cuteness/pop culture to be best as anything else.

Tell me how artistic worth and beauty is any less subjective than entertainment value.

That being said, it is unfair for either side to denigrate the other's creativity or worth.

I certainly haven't, unlike others who have questioned the worthiness of the contest's winners.

Plainsong said:
Here's an article on why contests leave can leave some feeling empty. It's about designing logos and such, and why it's bad for your business to enter such contests, but stretch the imagination a bit and apply it to music, or anything.

http://www.no-spec.com/articles/design-contests/

Again, a "creative type" relies on someone else's words. That article is about business concerns from the contest hoster's standpoint, not the hurt feelings of the self-indulgent artists.

Link · Jan 9, 2009

I see this topic getting closed too. Or maybe I just hope it does...

hoosierhiver · Jan 9, 2009

Tanizaki,
You've got some good stuff to say,but I've got to respectfully disagree that 1-4-5 songs "are not creative works".
Some 1-4-5's are the best stuff around.

Growing pains.

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