Uncommon neck joints

boatpaddle

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The first ukulele I built had a Spanish heel joint. The next step may have been a dovetail joint, but I haven't gotten around to that yet. Instead, the next one was a pocket joint, what I now call a reverse heel joint. The pictures are ones that I put together for my web site, but thought it would be nice to share with other luthiers because they represent unusual ways to make the joint. One thing I like about them is they all use the structure inside the body to make them more rigid than traditional joints.joint4a.jpgjoint1a.jpgjoint2a.jpgjoint3a.jpg
 
They are very rigid and very nicely executed. I can't help thinking though that they are, for a Uke or Nylon strung Guitar, WAY overkill.

Which brings up a very interesting question: so what? Does over-building the rims and neck support necessarily effect the performance of a lightly made top? Some respectable guitar makers think not, and that it might actually enhance performance. But to me much of the appeal of ukes is that they are uncomplicated things and always have been. If I have to put in extra effort, I'd rather build banjos or guitars, which I find more satisfying to play and perhaps easier to sell for reasonable money. Or I'd rather work on the cosmetic niceties that are appealing to me more and more thanks to a few members of UU. I don't want to over-intellectualize lutherie anymore. Still, its fun to watch someone else hunt the unicorn.
 
+1 john, totally agree. I just use a bolt on neck, and even that can get fiddly.Switching now to just plain glueing the neck/body to see how they hold up.
 
I don't find or approach uke building as being easier then guitar building

Which brings up a very interesting question: so what? Does over-building the rims and neck support necessarily effect the performance of a lightly made top? Some respectable guitar makers think not, and that it might actually enhance performance. But to me much of the appeal of ukes is that they are uncomplicated things and always have been. If I have to put in extra effort, I'd rather build banjos or guitars, which I find more satisfying to play and perhaps easier to sell for reasonable money. Or I'd rather work on the cosmetic niceties that are appealing to me more and more thanks to a few members of UU. I don't want to over-intellectualize lutherie anymore. Still, its fun to watch someone else hunt the unicorn.
 
+1 john, totally agree. I just use a bolt on neck, and even that can get fiddly.Switching now to just plain glueing the neck/body to see how they hold up.

I recently destroyed a soprano that went wrong during the build :uhoh: ...I held it by the neck and smashed it against the end of the bench several times until it was wood pulp..the only thing that didn't break was the glued dovetail joint :D

In the name of "uke science" it would be nice if somebody do's the same to a uke with a bolt on neck and we could compare notes.;)..I believe that the barrel nut would tear out of the heel first :)
 
I recently destroyed a soprano that went wrong during the build :uhoh: ...I held it by the neck and smashed it against the end of the bench several times until it was wood pulp..the only thing that didn't break was the glued dovetail joint

In the name of "uke science" it would be nice if somebody do's the same to a uke with a bolt on neck and we could compare notes.;)..I believe that the barrel nut would tear out of the heel first

Wow, so it's true that NDT (non destructive testing) has its limits. :)
I wish I had a bolted-neck-headed-for-the-fire victim - I mean subject - to contribute to science for this one :)
 
I don't find or approach uke building as being easier then guitar building

Beau, you're one of the guys here who inspire me, and I certainly don't doubt what you say. Plus, I've only built a few ukes and they were all sopranos. But I've built at least few of all the common instruments and several dozen of many (not to mention about 4000 guitar bodies for H&D), and ukes are by far the easiest of any, even if decorated the same way. I think it has to do with the size. They're just easy and uncomplicated.
 
John on your assymetrical uke , are you using vln ebony pegs?? Definitely like the look and s.hole.
 
Beau, you're one of the guys here who inspire me, and I certainly don't doubt what you say. Plus, I've only built a few ukes and they were all sopranos. But I've built at least few of all the common instruments and several dozen of many (not to mention about 4000 guitar bodies for H&D), and ukes are by far the easiest of any, even if decorated the same way. I think it has to do with the size. They're just easy and uncomplicated.

I hope your prices reflect how "easy and uncomplicated" it is for you to build ukulele's.
 
Beau, you're one of the guys here who inspire me, and I certainly don't doubt what you say. Plus, I've only built a few ukes and they were all sopranos. But I've built at least few of all the common instruments and several dozen of many (not to mention about 4000 guitar bodies for H&D), and ukes are by far the easiest of any, even if decorated the same way. I think it has to do with the size. They're just easy and uncomplicated.

I gotta agree with Beau on this one. My Custom P&J Neck through Bass, with active electronics, and all the other fun stuff that don't go on my `ukulele (radius fretboard, double CF rod, truss rod, pickup routes, preamp routes, wiring holes, grounding, etc), including the fretboard inlay, was WAY easier to pull off than `ukulele. Even though I've done only 2 basses (okay, doing my second one right now), there are way more things that I pay attention to in the thousandths of an inch on my `ukulele.

Acoustic Guitars, yeah, that's another story. But by no means is an `ukulele easy and uncomplicated. Okay, maybe in production, but not on this board.

Back to the thread, I'm finally incorporating a bolt-on M&T, which I've always wanted to do. Not because it needs it, but just because it fits within my current build process (to be shared at this year's UGH).
 
They are very rigid and very nicely executed. I can't help thinking though that they are, for a Uke or Nylon strung Guitar, WAY overkill.

One if the reasons I make these joints is for design flexibility. I approach building in a design oriented way, rather than seeking to replicate traditional designs and techniques, and I can make any shape upper bout profile and still easily fit the neck. As far as overbuilding is concerned, my feeling is, the greater the strength/weight ratio of an instrument, the better it will translate the overtones of the strings into sound. A light weight instrument with just enough structure will have a tinny sound as compared to one with the same weight but more rigid structure and richer sound. It has more to do with overall structure than just enough to resist string tension. Here's another one, it's less overbuilt than any neck joint I've ever seen, but it has tremendous stuctural integrety: http://www.boatpaddleukuleles.com/links/UU/joint7a.jpg
 
Which brings up a very interesting question: so what? Does over-building the rims and neck support necessarily effect the performance of a lightly made top? Some respectable guitar makers think not, and that it might actually enhance performance. But to me much of the appeal of ukes is that they are uncomplicated things and always have been. If I have to put in extra effort, I'd rather build banjos or guitars, which I find more satisfying to play and perhaps easier to sell for reasonable money. Or I'd rather work on the cosmetic niceties that are appealing to me more and more thanks to a few members of UU. I don't want to over-intellectualize lutherie anymore. Still, its fun to watch someone else hunt the unicorn.


Which brings up a very interesting question: so what? Does over-building the rims and neck support necessarily effect the performance of a lightly made top? Some respectable guitar makers think not, and that it might actually enhance performance. But to me much of the appeal of ukes is that they are uncomplicated things and always have been. If I have to put in extra effort, I'd rather build banjos or guitars, which I find more satisfying to play and perhaps easier to sell for reasonable money. Or I'd rather work on the cosmetic niceties that are appealing to me more and more thanks to a few members of UU. I don't want to over-intellectualize lutherie anymore. Still, its fun to watch someone else hunt the unicorn.

I think you're referring to the picture of a block that encompasses the sides. This is a common technique used in instruments like F5 mandolins to back up a miter joint. I wouldn't call the joints overbuilt, I try to make them as light as possible. You can't isolate one component like a "light top" from the rest of an instrument. The neck joints I use aren't meant to help the sound board work better, they're meant to increase sustain. The entire instrument is affected by any change to one or more of its parts, and the foundation on which the strings and sound board work is important.

Hunting the unicorn seems to suggest that ukuleles are perfect instruments. C.F. Martin set up shop in the U.S. in the first half of the 19th century as a master luthier trained in Germany. When he got here, he was exposed to many new techniques including Spanish fan bracing and quickly abandoned his ladder bracing for a better design. Things like larger bodies, 14 fret joints and X bracing followed. His fellow luthiers back in Germany may have thought he was hunting a unicorn too.

Ukuleles are not perfect instruments. The majority I see are under braced (if at all) with dense tops and dead notes that make a loud thump when awakened. I have a lot of respect for folk instruments, and they have their place, but it's ultimately about the music, and when I'm finger picking, the last thing I want to hear is loud thumping. I like an instrument with low easy to play action, good sustain and one that feels alive. Now where's that unicorn?
 
I think you're referring to the picture of a block that encompasses the sides. This is a common technique used in instruments like F5 mandolins to back up a miter joint. I wouldn't call the joints overbuilt, I try to make them as light as possible. You can't isolate one component like a "light top" from the rest of an instrument. The neck joints I use aren't meant to help the sound board work better, they're meant to increase sustain. The entire instrument is affected by any change to one or more of its parts, and the foundation on which the strings and sound board work is important.

Hunting the unicorn seems to suggest that ukuleles are perfect instruments. C.F. Martin set up shop in the U.S. in the first half of the 19th century as a master luthier trained in Germany. When he got here, he was exposed to many new techniques including Spanish fan bracing and quickly abandoned his ladder bracing for a better design. Things like larger bodies, 14 fret joints and X bracing followed. His fellow luthiers back in Germany may have thought he was hunting a unicorn too.

Ukuleles are not perfect instruments. The majority I see are under braced (if at all) with dense tops and dead notes that make a loud thump when awakened. I have a lot of respect for folk instruments, and they have their place, but it's ultimately about the music, and when I'm finger picking, the last thing I want to hear is loud thumping. I like an instrument with low easy to play action, good sustain and one that feels alive. Now where's that unicorn?

I guess it wasn't apparent, but I'm on your side, Dude. Evolution is the key to existence, whether animal or musical. But ideas evolve way faster than the human acceptance of them. Everything you say is probably right. Chasing the unicorn refers to fitting your ideas in with the buying public. They have no complaint with the way ukes are, they only wish they could have their dream versions of the way they are. If you complicate construction you'll have to charge more for your work, work that can't be seen from the outside of the instrument. If you are successful at improving the musical qualities of the of the uke you may find a market. I hope you do. It'll be fun to watch it happen. In the meantime, many of us will truck along making customers happy with what we all ready know how to do. I'm not sure how much excitement C.F. Martin caused when he perfected the X brace, but its been about 150 years since then with no real challengers. Things change slowly in the acoustic instrument world. Make yourself happy, that's all any of us can shoot for.
 
I gotta agree with Beau on this one. My Custom P&J Neck through Bass, with active electronics, and all the other fun stuff that don't go on my `ukulele (radius fretboard, double CF rod, truss rod, pickup routes, preamp routes, wiring holes, grounding, etc), including the fretboard inlay, was WAY easier to pull off than `ukulele. Even though I've done only 2 basses (okay, doing my second one right now), there are way more things that I pay attention to in the thousandths of an inch on my `ukulele.

Acoustic Guitars, yeah, that's another story. But by no means is an `ukulele easy and uncomplicated. Okay, maybe in production, but not on this board.

Back to the thread, I'm finally incorporating a bolt-on M&T, which I've always wanted to do. Not because it needs it, but just because it fits within my current build process (to be shared at this year's UGH).


I built 80 electric guitars and basses before I quite building them. They got to be pretty easy, I admit. Maybe its just that my jigs came out just right, but ukes are easy and uncomplicated. Sorry. After you've made a few hundred acoustic instruments I hope you feel the same way.
 
I have a loyal following of customers, several who have ordered up to three ukuleles with average prices being in the $1300 range. Backlog usually runs 3-4 months and I just shipped my first $2000+ ukulele. Life is good
 
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