Your uke playing: how does feedback affect you?

Hochapeafarm

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As a former teacher in the field of adult education for several years, I am always fascinated by how adults learn most effectively. In general, I have done a lot of research into this topic; my thesis was specifically about how adults learn and how adults prefer to learn -- especially based upon his or her own specific learning styles.

With the above said, one of the things that can affect our learning is how we respond to feedback. This can be feedback from our teachers, our friends, our family, or even from folks we've never met. Feedback, of course, comes in all forms. It can either be encouraging and supportive; it can be critical, yet constructive; it can be non-constructive and/or just plain damaging and hurtful.

With respect to learning how to play the ukulele, I'd be curious to see how folks here on this forum -- beginners uke'ers through advanced uke'ers -- all respond to positive and/or negative feedback when you put yourself "out there." What I mean by this is, for example, if you're like me, you might post videos of yourself playing tunes on your YouTube channel. Or, perhaps you actually play live in front of an audience. Maybe you just play for your family or friends from time to time -- or maybe you only play in front of your uke teacher/instructor. Anytime you open yourself up to receiving any kind of feedback from someone with your uke playing, I would love to hear how you respond to this feedback and how you feel it either helps or harms you in your improvement in playing -- and perhaps even your motivation to play more or less.

Finally, I'd like to share my own personal experience with learning to play the ukulele the past two years and how feedback has both helped me and harmed me, with respect to my growth as a uke player:

First, as I've mentioned, I've put myself out there on YouTube with ukulele videos. I did this because it was a) a way to document my progress and b) I wanted to share what I've learned and connect with other uke'ers out there in "cyber space." Aside from Skype ukulele internet lessons with my uke teacher, I've really never played "live" in front of anyone, barring my husband once in a blue moon.

This forum has been both a pivotal and instrumental factor in my progress and also in my motivation to push myself to learn more, to play better. Doing so has further increased my love, passion, and joy in playing this wonderful, diminutive instrument. I am so inspired by what I see you all do here on UU with your own uke playing! The past year in which I have been an "active" member of UU, so many UU members have reached out and have given me a TON of support, encouragement, helpful hints -- you name it -- to help me grow as a ukulele player. If it wasn't for all of this positive feedback, I know that I would not be where I am now with my playing.

Now, there's my YouTube channel: this has been a different experience with respect to feedback. Yes, I know...it is YouTube...and I know better than to expect it to be akin to what I experience here on UU. I made the choice to "open the door," let anyone in and, pretty much, say anything that they want about my uke playing, whether it be positive or negative feedback. There are days in which I've received such terrible, non-constructive, hurtful feedback that I've thought about throwing in the towel altogether with uke playing. Yes, I am a sensitive person...and I've been learning (trying to learn!) to grow a "thick skin." Personally, for me, this kind of feedback has no benefit in motivating me to play or to become a better player. I have never learned very well through humiliation; I've had teachers/instructors in the past who did use this tactic in their teaching approach/style. I suppose that there are folks out there who are motivated to learn and get better with this method. Again, for me, personally, this teaching style isn't congruent with my learning preference/style.

I know this is a long post, so if you've made it this far, thanks for taking time to read this. I'd love to hear about your experiences in how you respond to feedback, positive and/or negative, with respect to your own uke playing. This is not for anything official that I am doing -- I am honestly just curious to see what other people on this forum think about this topic. Btw, if you prefer, you can PM me instead if you would rather do so.

Peace,
~ Chelle
 
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It's a double edged sword, I think.

When you receive positive feedback you feel GOOD. You've been verified as doing something right. Especially when the feedbacker is better than you, it really feels like you're closer to them and they respect you. You feel like you've arrived and that you are successful at said "thing."

On the other hand, negative feedback feels CRAPPY. You know you're not doing something right and the fact that somebody noticed means you must have been blatantly wrong (at least to them). For me, knowing I screwed up makes me feel bad whether somebody points it out or not. The better the feedbacker is, the worse you feel because (especially if you are a student of theirs or look up to them) you feel like you've let them down.

Each have their positives, IMO, depending on where you are at skill-wise, confidence-wise, emotion-wise. For me, personally, as terrible as I felt when I received negative feedback, it made me learn the fastest. I wanted to avoid being criticized again for the same thing (and rarely was, once it had been brought to my attention for improvement). As for positive feedback... It's great to hear occasionally if you are hard on yourself. But if you get pumped up too much you start to get complacent. Then, you're not reaching for the next level and when you realize you've been sitting atop a false mountain you feel ever worse.

It's a balance you need to ride carefully if you are in any place to be a "feedbacker." Depending on somebody's determination, dedication, toughness, you could make their life complete or break them down. Too much of either is bad, but sometimes you've just got to say something that might hurt or encourage.
 
I grew up in New York City so developing a thick skin from freely given opinions was part of learning to survive. One disadvantage of not caring what others think is you can end up isolating yourself from people. Maybe that's why I played guitar by myself in my bedroom for 30 years before discovering the ukulele.

Now I live in the Midwest where people think its rude to be direct. Plus my wife has taught me that its better to be kind than right. This attitude also seems to be inherent in the ukulele community which is why I'm drawn to it. At my ukulele jams we make mistakes, we stop mid-song and start over, we laugh at ourselves, and we are more accepting of new people. Its always a fun time.

Its good to share this with the outside world. You're showing people that playing this instrument is fun and that you don't have to be perfect. Some people won't get it but it seems like a lot more do.

Negativity can certainly motivate you to prove someone else wrong. But why waste that energy on someone who's not worth it in the first place?
 
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In the end you just have to please yourself rather than looking to the outside for validation. Just be kind to yourself during the journey because its over too soon.

Yes. This. Absolutely!!

Aside from how I feel about my playing, the only feedback that really matters to me is from my uke instructor. I'm appreciative of comments, both positive and maybe not so much, from friends and fellow players, but I try not to take anything too personally.

I did the YouTube thing very briefly, and - not for me. While it was nice getting encouragement from complete strangers (and a few UU members!), it got really weird really fast. Between the inappropriate personal questions the videos prompted (marital status, age) and the occasional thumbs-downs/dislikes or whatever they're called, it was too depressing. Even though *intellectually* I knew I shouldn't let the turkeys get me down, *emotionally* it still irritated me a bit. I decided I wasn't superwoman enough to not care what a few random strangers on the internet thought of me, and the drawbacks sadly outweighed the benefits.
 
Chelle-
First off, I hope you've found a solution to your fret-arm pain...

The internet is all too often not a friendly place. It can be like trying to pin the arms of an octopus. Many of those that found their way to your YouTube videos may have just listened to the latest from James Hill or Jake and in that comparision, 99% of us stink. Hopefully others, like those here, appreciate the effort it takes to wrestle even a four-stringed diminuitive instrument to the ground. I aspire to be better than I am today, knowing that there aren't enough hours for me to ever approach the really gifted players. I'm happy that no one runs screaming from the house when I pick up my uke, and I'm very happy that an Aldrine lesson that seemed impossible one day, seems realistically within reach (although at a slower pace) a week later. Keep on practicing as long as you are happy.
 
Posting my stuff on YouTube has been a great boon to me as far as feedback goes, but probably not how you expect. While I certainly enjoy the positive feedback I receive--like Brad, above, I try to take it with a grain of salt, because I know that the UU ohana, in particular, is quite forthcoming with praise, but much less so with criticism. That said, I always hear every one of my own mistakes, from pitchy vocals to missed chord fingerings, and have had to learn click "upload" anyway, despite the shortcomings. I've actually found, though that once the thing is out of my hands, I'm able to watch it in a somewhat detached way, and use my videos as a tool. The very act of learning, recording, and uploading a song every week has made me a better player, because I can hear where I need improvement and work on that the following week. So in that way, I actually feel like my own feedback is the most important.

I generally understand/rationalize YouTube dislikes, so they don't bother me much, and I am always pleased, of course with happy positive feedback from others. Sometimes I'm surprised at what gets the feedback - I'll be particularly pleased with a vocal for example, and my playing will be complemented, or vice versa. So then I come back to the piece and try to listen to it with fresh ears.

I should say that I am a professional performer (actor, not uke player), and have been for 20 years, so performance based feedback in all its forms comes back at me all the time, and I am used to separating the wheat from the chaff when it comes to that sort of thing. In the end, like all of us, I'm my own worst critic, but I've learned how to be my own best cheerleader as well.
 
It's a funny thing about the Internet. For the most part any kind of feedback on the internet has no effect on me. If someone flames me or sends me a nasty email, my feeling is that it is irrelevant and I just ignore it. If someone gives a dislike to something I've written I don't care. It has nothing to do with me. On the other hand, I am sensitive to feedback in my real life. It motivates me when I get positive feedback. Constructive criticism is useful, but nasty, officious, or condescending criticism makes me angry.
 
I grew up in New York City so developing a thick skin from freely given opinions was part of learning to survive. One disadvantage of not caring what others think is you can end up isolating yourself from people. Maybe that's why I played guitar by myself in my bedroom for 30 years before discovering the ukulele.

Now I live in the Midwest where people think its rude to be direct. Plus my wife has taught me that its better to be kind than right. This attitude also seems to be inherent in the ukulele community which is why I'm drawn to it. At my ukulele jams we make mistakes, we stop mid-song and start over, we laugh at ourselves, and we are more accepting of new people. Its always a fun time.

Its good to share this with the outside world. You're showing people that playing this instrument is fun and that you don't have to be perfect. Some people won't get it but it seems like a lot more do.

Negativity can certainly motivate you to prove someone else wrong. But why waste that energy on someone who's not worth it in the first place?

I agree with this. Also, I tend to share with people who either don't play the uke and/or who would never consider it, or who play, but are more interested in the spirit of the thing than the technique, etc.

I find that when I focus too much on technique or intellectualize anything, it sucks all the joy right out of it. So while I do improve on the uke, and want to do so, I take more of a moderate approach. Mostly playing and comparatively little technical study. That's just what works for me, and it took me some 10 years to find this balance!

The same goes for feedback. I don't share everything, and when I choose to share, it is with those people who "get it," i.e. who enjoy music or the message of the song in general. I guess I share for the purpose of connecting with others, and not to get some intellectual, technical or judgemental advice. :)

Great thread!
 
My wife just offered to "critique" me. I declined the offer. I can think of nothing that would discourage my playing more than that.
 
I have yet to put myself "out there" for criticism, as I'm a pretty private person.

I can admire the cojones of those that do, though. If I watch/listen to your video all the way through, it's usually because I enjoyed it and I will make an effort to say something positive.

If constructive criticism is asked for and I can see an area for improvement, I will often point it out, tempered with that "something positive" aspect.

But if I think you really suck, I'll likely just keep my mouth shut. My dad was one of those always droning on about how if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. There's enough negativity out there already. Who am I to bag on anyone for at least making an effort I haven't?

My husband (who never played an instrument in his life) was my best critic. He always seemed to notice when I was playing exceptionally well and would say so. It meant a lot to me because I knew it was sincere and honest (as well as rare).

He also wasn't afraid to tell me when I was off, like once when he went with me to buy a used uke from someone locally. On the way home he said he could tell how uncomfortable I was playing it in front of the seller and that my playing suffered because of it.
 
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Most everyone I've played in front of have all had very low expectations when 1 guy with an ukulele sits down to play. In that respect, there's nowhere for their listening experience to go but positively. Though I still have a long ways to go (bought my first uke in late march this year).

I still haven't put any type of video out to be critiqued. Though the couple/few I'm thinking of recording are really just because I've never heard the uke version of certain songs the way I figured them out.

I've played piano for 30 years (since I was 2), and guitar for about 15 years. I've had more than my fair share of both constructive and destructive types of criticisms thrown my way. Only one of those I take seriously. Some offer advice to propel you forward. Others offer negativity to bring you down.

It's up to you who to listen to. :)
 
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Hi, folks! So many heartfelt thanks to all of you who took time to read and respond to my question regarding how receiving feedback affects your uke playing. In addition to the comments that were posted here on the forum, I did also receive one email and one PM, too. Just super! It was great to read all of your responses and I learned a lot in doing so; my perspective in how I look at receiving feedback, too, is for the better since posing this question to folks here on UU. :)

One of the responses that I received from a contributor pointed out how NOT receiving feedback can also be, at times, negative feedback in and of itself. Like UU member itsme pointed out -- the old adage -- "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." I admit that I can interpret lack of feedback to also mean that people don't like what I am doing with respect to my uke playing, etc.

On the flip side, I often don't make time to write comments even when I DO like something I see/hear. Mostly because I am checking out somebody's video and I am not logged onto YouTube (or UU if I am watching from there) and don't want to take the time to log on so that I could respond. I try to remind myself to come back later and comment, however, as I know that, in general, many people appreciate feedback.

Any thoughts on how NOT receiving feedback affects your playing? Do you take it to mean people don't like what they see/hear? Or, perhaps, they're like me, and might just not be in a position (at the moment) to do so even if they do like what they see.

Thank you so much to everyone, again, who responded to this thread! I hope that this information will help others out there, too, as it has for me!

Peace,
~ Chelle
 
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Personally, I don't pay attention to feedback. When I post to Facebook, I know whose comments are honest and who is jerking my chain. Besides, I'm a lot more critical of myself than most people are capable of being, so I take just about every positive comment with a grain of salt. Well, maybe a salt block...

Here and on Youtube I don't see much point in feedback. The sites actively discourage any comments that might hurt someones little feelings, so the likelihood of receiving any feedback that's actually beneficial in any way is pretty slim. I've seen people get reamed on Youtube for suggesting someone take the time to tune their instrument because of the idiotic notion that if you say something negative then you're a horrible person. The rampant political correctness of it all discourages suggesting that someone actually listen to a song before they try to play it, or whatever... Heaven forbid anyone here actually says they don't like something someone posted. The general rule is "Hey, it's a freeform kind of thing, so whatever you do is okay because it's your self-expression!" which loosely translates into "I'll tell you it's groovy no matter how much you suck!"

I think it must be even more difficult for women to receive any meaningful feedback. Men are usually content to listen a girl screech out lyrics on an untuned ukulele as long as she has a nice smile and pretty eyes If she shows enough cleavage we might listen to it twice even if she has a voice that would make lesser men jam flaming bamboo skewers through their eardrums.

(I suspect that there must be some sort of mathematical equation for figuring out how much positive feedback a girl is likely to get for posting absolute garbage on youtube based on her cup size. Whoever figures it out could make millions...)

Really though, the only honest feedback anyone can receive is no comment at all. When 20+ people listen to your music and none of them liked it enough to spend 5 seconds typing "Good Job!" it's a pretty good indicator that something in the performance needs work. I think that was revealed to me pretty clearly when I posted a video here asking for feedback on a song I knew was a bit... off..., and didn't receive a single comment or suggestion on how I could improve the piece. Even when a person asks for honesty, they can be assured of receiving only positive feedback or no comment at all.

It pretty much nullifies the entire purpose of getting feedback if you are only allowed to hear things that make you feel good. Sometimes the best thing to tell someone is "Gosh, you know.... you would do that so much better if you stopped doing it and did something else.". Granted, that's a worst case kinda thing, but if we can compliment someone who would represent a best case to the nth degree then it's absolutely meaningless considering that anything worse than not very nice is deemed anathema.
 
Every piece of feedback - whether constructive or destructive - has some truth in it. I've been playing long enough at this point that feedback really doesn't do anything for me (in terms of making me feel good or bad) emotionally, but if someone is very specific about what they liked or didn't like about my playing, I'll pay more attention to that.
 
I grew up in New York City so developing a thick skin from freely given opinions was part of learning to survive. One disadvantage of not caring what others think is you can end up isolating yourself from people. Maybe that's why I played guitar by myself in my bedroom for 30 years before discovering the ukulele.

Now I live in the Midwest where people think its rude to be direct. Plus my wife has taught me that its better to be kind than right. This attitude also seems to be inherent in the ukulele community which is why I'm drawn to it. At my ukulele jams we make mistakes, we stop mid-song and start over, we laugh at ourselves, and we are more accepting of new people. Its always a fun time.

Its good to share this with the outside world. You're showing people that playing this instrument is fun and that you don't have to be perfect. Some people won't get it but it seems like a lot more do.

Negativity can certainly motivate you to prove someone else wrong. But why waste that energy on someone who's not worth it in the first place?

^^ Agree 100%

And besides that, I am my own worst (best) critic. Absolutely brutal! Nothing slides. This helps me put external criticisms in their proper place (both positive and negative). After all, we are all trying to progress and play better.
 
I like crisp, clear (blunt) but done kindly (so I know it's for my benefit) comments.

I absolutely hate having to decipher all the lame euphemisms.

I play a lot of tennis and they have found that the best coaching comes from coaches who provide immediate response when they see something that needs correction, and it's best done in a pretty neutral tone. . . kind of an "I'm working with you" tone (not "you're horrible" or "you're lousy" or "you're missing this" or "can't you see?" or "DO THIS").

The good thing with the uke is that is easy enough to be in a good mood playing it, so students respond pretty well to comments that are well-intentioned and clear.

One challenge to teaching is to not overload a student. Really, pick out the main thing that needs help and put the focus on that. The rest can be dealt with later.

OP: I'd be interested in seeing your thesis. Can you email it?
 
It pretty much nullifies the entire purpose of getting feedback if you are only allowed to hear things that make you feel good..

This has been a fascinating thread. While I don't concur 100% with Phluffy's quote above, it does hit on one aspect of the Seasons of the Ukulele here that is both a blessing and a curse: There is really no negative feedback. I admit that I love getting positive feedback, and it's one of the things that makes me keep making videos, but I know I'm not a great player, and a lot of Seasonistas are not great players (or singers). Positive reinforcement is good, but are we doing a disservice by not providing constructive, helpful (not hurtful) critiques? And perhaps that's the rub--it's hard enough to get the tone of a critique right in person, much less over the internet, and you have to know a person pretty well to know how to best deliver criticism to them so that they will take it in a positive way.

Sometimes we do need people to point us in the right direction, or we'll keep making the same mistake over and over again. I'm one of those people who can be his own worst critic (I'm not happy with *any* of my videos), but sometimes other people's critiques can point to a solution that I hadn't considered, and that's one way we grow as musicians/singers/performers/people.

This past week I did a video that was far from my best, but I thought the concept was brilliant in relation to the week's challenge. I got almost no feedback on it. Was it a case of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all", or was it just that I posted it after the next week's theme was announced and everyone had moved on already? Or was it because I've been slacking off recently on commenting on other people's videos? Like with all social media, there's a culture of "if I scratch your back, I expect you to scratch mine" here, and I have to admit that it does get tiring from time to time.

At any rate, I do like constructive feedback, whether good or bad, but I always consider the source. Harsh feedback is very hard for me to take--I can have pretty thin skin at times--but if there's truth in it, then I can build from it. No feedback at all is worse.

- FiL
 
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