Strings and Snake Oil

Lately I've been thinking that fluorocarbon string branding is just Snake Oil.

I can't definitively find any difference between various fluorocarbon strings. Some are thicker gauges than others, and sometimes that matters on a particular uke. But I can't tell the difference in playing between Worth Clears, Martin M600 and M620, PhD and Living Water. I find it hard to believe they are not just strings cut from the same fishing line. I asked the guy at Anacapa ukulele if the PhD strings were really any different than the Martins and he said that the PhD strings are monofilament and the Martins are braided, but I don't believe that.

Often I tend to just use the Martin strings because they are cheap. I've got Worth Clear on a couple of ukes and Living Water on one uke as well as a couple of packages of the PhD strings that I haven't used yet, but I did try some ukes that had PhD strings on them - I could swear they were repackaged Martin strings.

Am I crazy? Am I missing some exquisite sensitivity to feel or vibration that others have? Are these strings really different or is this string branding just a way to charge a higher price for a bunch of cheap fishing line?

I can definitely tell the difference between Worths and Martins, at least on my ukes - can't stand Worths, but love Martins. And I don't think it's just the cheapskate in me appreciating the low price - they really do seem to have a clearer tone and longer sustain.

katysax said:

Lately I've been thinking that fluorocarbon string branding is just Snake Oil.

I can't definitively find any difference between various fluorocarbon strings. . . . I find it hard to believe they are not just strings cut from the same fishing line.

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I heard there's an old guy up in coastal Maine (USA) who cuts the lines ("strings") in his dilapidated fishing shack, then has his truant grandkids slap labels on them and take them to the P.O.

OK, actually I can tell the difference between Worth Clear and Fremont Blackline, and Martins seem different from both. (Or at least I think I can.)

Maybe the truth lies somewhere between "no difference" and "not as much difference as we might like to think."

There are differences to my ears. Currently my favorite fluorocarbon strings are Oasis.
Plus you get 2 sets for under $10. I think they are made in 'merica too.

I largely feel the same way when comparing clear fluorocarbons. While I can hear and feel slight differences (and do have preferences) I think they are fairly minor from one brand to the next. I especially think this is true after they have been played in for a few weeks. Could be my imagination, but I do believe that Oasis, for whatever reason, settle the quickest. They seem to stretch and reach tuning stability in almost 1/2 the time of other strings.

Katysax, I believe your not far from the truth. I think it's been pretty well noted by various people on this forum that the worth clears are various gauges of Seaguar fishing leader. Wouldn't surprise me if most clear flouro's are some brand or another of fishing line too.

Ask Oldphart, he cuts his uke strings from Seaguar leader. I think he has a gauge chart to match the worths.

Doc_J said:

There are differences to my ears. Currently my favorite fluorocarbon strings are Oasis.
Plus you get 2 sets for under $10. I think they are made in 'merica too.

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I agree with Doc about the Oasis strings.

Mitch

I went through a pound of strings before settling on Living Waters for both of my tenors. Along the way, I found some strings that felt slightly abrasive, others that were mismatched for volume, still others that sounded quiet or dull. I settled for that which I could not consistently find with any of the contenders. Smooth feel, good volume, balance across strings, short tuning adjustment, spot on tuning once set in, and making both ukes come alive with resonance.

I do believe that there are many more similarities than differences among most of the FC string makers. But, LW does something different. Maybe they are flash frozen and pre stretched by ice fishermen in Minnesota before being cut to size and sent to Britain. Whatever it is, it works for my Ukes.

Snake oil for sure.

Various string that I have tried all look a bit different, feel different and definitely sound different. Those saying that they are all different brands of fishing line may very well be correct, key word being -different.

Various strings sound different. And the same strings can sound different when on different ukuleles. It does take awhile to learn to hear the differences. I wouldn't call it snake oil.

There are a small number of companies that make fluorocarbon fishing line that are then resold and packaged as ukulele strings, so there will be some similarities. But given that Company A is probably making a proprietary blend of their fluorocarbon than Company B (in an effort to create something new/different/better/able to be trademarked), there will be some slight differences which will translate to different sound, feel, etc.. between fluorocarbon strings. So yes, fluorocarbon strings as a whole share some similar characteristics, but by no means are they exact.

Saying they're all the same is akin to stating that every single set of nickel-plated steel guitar strings are exactly the same. They're not; there are proprietary formulas used that, while they result in a similar string, there will be differences in sound, feel and longevity.

HBolte said:

Various string that I have tried all look a bit different, feel different and definitely sound different. Those saying that they are all different brands of fishing line may very well be correct, key word being -different.

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Yes, Seaguar makes 12 different kinds of flourocarbon line, each with many different gauges. Here is the Seaguar chart matching Worth Strings OldePhart (John) made up and posted in this thread. http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?18975-fishing-line-ukulele-string-recipe

I'm not sure it's safe to assume that all fluorocarbon strings are the same quality material (would affect tension), or have the same uniformity. These variables could make all the difference in strings that otherwise are "labeled" the same with regard to diameter and composition. Perhaps that's why many can hear differences in string sets that are generally considered to be the same.............they're not. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Since Worth and Living Water are the exact same guages, it's a good comparison. I've used both and they are definitely different. Not a whole lot, but Living Waters are a bit softer and less harsh sounding - I have almost no doubt about that

Duk

Great thread. I haven't experimented much at all, but I put some inexpensive clear fluoros on my tenor and it sounds great. I just like fluoro strings.

Same strings ... different uke ... often different result in sound/feel. That said, to my ears Living Water clear fluoro-carbon strings sound best on a majority of my ukes. Can't speak to why but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I put them on a Martin Style 3 soprano from the 50's and she is singing big time. It is amazing to me. Not snake oil to me ... I truly hear a difference.

For what it's worth (pun intended) I can very definitely hear differences between Worth CM and Martin M600, for example. I think much of the difference is accounted for by the different gages used in the sets - this affects the string to string balance. The string-to-string tension and balance are quite different between the two sets, with the Martin having almost equal tension across the strings and thus more emphases on the C and E strings as compared to the Worth CM strings. As SkinnyMoney mentioned, I've done a lot with Seaguar fishing leaders (enough that I've used up the 25M roll of one of the gages) - even using the same material you can get significantly different sounds just by adjusting the gages.

I will say that I think there is a lot less variation across brands of fluorocarbon strings than there seems to be across nylon strings, but that simply makes sense because the material is so dense and stable.

As for colored fluorocarbon I have only tried Fremont blacks and I wasn't real impressed with them - but that could just have been that they were a bad match for the uke they were on. I did try an experiment where I dyed some Seaguar leaders using RIT dye as I wanted to see if I could quantify what changes absorbing dye might make. It was not an unqualified success. Using black dye and boiling the strings I was only able to get them to take on enough dye to be slightly gray. It definitely changed the tone...and not for the better...but I chalk that up more to the boiling than anything the dye did.

John

Boiled snake oil (couldn't resist).

They're all virtually the same except for small variations in gauge and tension. The differences aren't significant enough for me to notice or care, so I get whatever fluoros are cheapest.