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View Full Version : Crazy Idea: Worth Browns on a Guitalele?



Booli
01-11-2014, 12:16 PM
Yes, I am a recent convert to Worth Browns and just can't seem to get enough of them.

My idea is this, take a MEDIUM Tenor set, and put them as the 4 thinner strings on my Yamaha GL-1 guitalele, and then take the unwound 'G' string each from the FAT set and also the one from the HEAVY set, and put them as the two other bass strings on the guitalele respectivey...

Will it work?

Will there be too much tension?

Will there be ENOUGH tension for the bass strings with the A-tuning of the guitalele?

Should I modify this idea in some way to use the Worth Browns BARITONE strings?

Please note that I am NOT interested in Worth Clears, only Worth Browns.

Why am I doing this? Maybe because I am just crazy...

Tell me what you think...

Booli
01-12-2014, 04:00 AM
Wow.

39 views and not a single comment post. :(

I would have hoped that with the wealth of experience here, that SOMEONE of the 39 that read this thread would have shared an opinion by now.

Needless to say, I am a bit disappointed.

Why don't you love me any more?

Please tell me where I failed you so that I may fix it.

-Booli

Five Ways
01-12-2014, 04:01 AM
Don't know about your crazy idea, but I love worth browns on my mahogany pono tenor.
good luck with it anyway.

JamieWG
01-12-2014, 04:11 AM
Well, I can only say that if you do it, I'd be interested in knowing the results. I'd be really surprised if unwound strings could hold pitches that low, but you never know unless you try!

Booli
01-12-2014, 04:51 AM
Don't know about your crazy idea, but I love worth browns on my mahogany pono tenor.
good luck with it anyway.

Thanks for showing that I am not alone here.

yes, I love them too on both my concert Lava Flea, as well as on my Kala KA-T tenor. I like the sound and the feel under the fingers much better than the Aquila Nylguts I had on both instruments before.

Manalishi
01-12-2014, 04:59 AM
I have no idea if your plan would work either;but I too am a relatively recent Worth convert,after a few years of using Aquilas almost exclusively.And yes,I prefer the feel of them too,aside from the more mellow tones (when and if required)

Booli
01-12-2014, 05:04 AM
Well, I can only say that if you do it, I'd be interested in knowing the results. I'd be really surprised if unwound strings could hold pitches that low, but you never know unless you try!


Hi Jamie...

Thank you for your message. Now I am not alone in this thread with Five Ways :)

I will let you know what happens. The guitalele (or requinto as some call it) 'standard' is tuned up a 4th from the standard guitar EADGBE tuning to ADGCEA, and I know that Worth browns are available for baritone ukulele, but I am not sure if the A-6th and D-4th strings pitches will have enough tension for unwound strings, so I guess like you said is to see what happens, and if for some reason this fails, I am going to try a similar experiment with the Aquila Red strings, and for that I will probably have to use Aquila Red baritone strings.

I would not try this on a standard guitar in standard EADGBE tuning, as it would probably result in a rubber-band like floppy string tension or due to the lack thereof.

We live in a great time when materials science and chemistry can allow for the creation of all new materials for strings, i.e. nylon, PVDF, nylgut, fluorocarbon, REDS, and even actual old-world gut strings (which are quite expensive nowadays it seems).

I am really liking the Worth Browns on my ukes and wanted to see how far I could take them, both low, and high...if it works out, I will submit my findings to the Worth string company and ask if they can either offer the Browns as 'singles' or as a custom set...just in case others wish to follow

-Booli

Booli
01-12-2014, 05:08 AM
I have no idea if your plan would work either;but I too am a relatively recent Worth convert,after a few years of using Aquilas almost exclusively.And yes,I prefer the feel of them too,aside from the more mellow tones (when and if required)

Hi Timebug,

I know everyone says they have a more mellow tone, but I have found just the opposite on the two ukes where I installed them, crisp, clear, bright and well-defined bell-like tones, with about double the sustain and greater volume and projection when compared to the Aquila Nylguts I had used previously.

I went back to recordings I had made, and confirmed, so it is not just memory of how the Nylguts sounded (plinky in comparison), but it's all relative and I guess my instruments just react differently than most.

-Booli

JamieWG
01-12-2014, 05:48 AM
Hi Jamie...
.....The guitalele (or requinto as some call it) 'standard' is tuned up a 4th from the standard guitar EADGBE tuning to ADGCEA, and I know that Worth browns are available for baritone ukulele, but I am not sure if the A-6th and D-4th strings pitches will have enough tension for unwound strings, so I guess like you said is to see what happens, and if for some reason this fails, I am going to try a similar experiment with the Aquila Red strings, and for that I will probably have to use Aquila Red baritone strings.

I would not try this on a standard guitar in standard EADGBE tuning, as it would probably result in a rubber-band like floppy string tension or due to the lack thereof.
.........

-Booli

Booli, I actually have two requintos. Well sort of. One is an alto, currently being tuned to requinto tuning rather than all the way up a fifth. One of the pitfalls of the requinto and guitar is the wearing down and tearing of my nails, due to the windings on the bass strings. I'm sure mine are both quite a bit longer scale than your guitalele (55.4cm and 53cm), but knowing your results might give me a clue to possibilities. For me, one of the blessings of the ukulele is not having to deal with wound strings. Good luck with your experiment!

Lori
01-12-2014, 07:25 AM
I found the search for guitarlele strings the most difficult for success. I really wanted EADGBA tuning, but found that it just didn't work on my guitarlele. The sound was OK for fingerpicking, but really muddy for chords/ strumming. I tried several different sets and brands, and decided my best results came from ADGCEA tuning and Aquila Guitalele strings. I would be concerned that the Worth Browns might not be bright enough, especially at a lower tension.
Good luck with your experiment, and let us know what you discover.
–Lori

mds725
01-12-2014, 09:15 AM
Wow.

39 views and not a single comment post. :(

I would have hoped that with the wealth of experience here, that SOMEONE of the 39 that read this thread would have shared an opinion by now.

Needless to say, I am a bit disappointed.

Why don't you love me any more?

Please tell me where I failed you so that I may fix it.

-Booli

It's likely that many of those 39 people didn't know enough about strings to say anything useful. I might have asked this question in the technical support or luthiers lounge forums in the hope of increasing the likelihood that those who did look at my post might know more than the average bear about strings. And I'd have preferred one or two posts that actually addressed my question than a bunch of posts from well-meaning people who had no idea how to anwer my question but just wanted to leave a trace of their having read it. I think it's unfair to chastise people who read your post, knew they had no valuable information to offer you, and left without saying anything.

Booli
01-12-2014, 09:34 AM
I found the search for guitarlele strings the most difficult for success. I really wanted EADGBA tuning, but found that it just didn't work on my guitarlele. The sound was OK for fingerpicking, but really muddy for chords/ strumming. I tried several different sets and brands, and decided my best results came from ADGCEA tuning and Aquila Guitalele strings. I would be concerned that the Worth Browns might not be bright enough, especially at a lower tension.
Good luck with your experiment, and let us know what you discover.
–Lori

Thanks Lori. I'll let you know the results.

-Booli

Booli
01-12-2014, 09:46 AM
It's likely that many of those 39 people didn't know enough about strings to say anything useful. I might have asked this question in the technical support or luthiers lounge forums in the hope of increasing the likelihood that those who did look at my post might know more than the average bear about strings. And I'd have preferred one or two posts that actually addressed my question than a bunch of posts from well-meaning people who had no idea how to anwer my question but just wanted to leave a trace of their having read it. I think it's unfair to chastise people who read your post, knew they had no valuable information to offer you, and left without saying anything.

Hi mds725,

Thank you for your comment. I was trying to be sort of 'tongue-in-cheek' with my comment, but I now see how that might not have come across in plain text.

You have raised some good points here, as I was not sure which section of the forum to place my question.

I was not really trying to chastise anybody, but as per what you have said, I can see how that this might be taken that way, and if I have offended anyone, PLEASE accept my deepest apologies as that was not my intent.

I will deeply consider your suggestions, and try use them to be a better UU member.

I guess I might have been feeling a bit needy this morning when I wrote that post, and I admit that was selfish of me.

I wont let it happen again.

My new question is, if I am going to break any forum rules if I post a similar question in those other forum areas, as I recall some guidelines forbidding duplicate posts, and I wish not to break any rules, do you have a recommendation for the best way I should proceed?

Thank you for guiding me on the right path...

-Booli

Booli
01-12-2014, 02:01 PM
First and Foremost, I would like to apologize to the Moderators if this message seems to be going far afield of the original topic of this thread, and please ask that you bear with me on this one - and feel free to move this thread to another section of the forum if you feel it will better serve the community.

-

Hi Bill,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I had debated if I should respond via PM to you, or here in the thread, and I decided to reply here in the thread.


Booli, please do not stop asking questions just because you don't know where they should be posted. Just trust the Moderators to move them if they should be moved.

Don't worry, I do not ever let anything intimidate me from asking questions.

While I rarely explain or justify myself as it's a futile exercise more often than not, I feel that in this case, and for the sake of absolute clarity that I provide some further information.

While I both appreciate and have a great deal of respect for 'history' and the way that 'things' are traditionally done, I have never felt compelled to 'conform' to a rigid and orthodox practice of traditional methods.

Don't get me wrong, I will typically not only learn but also master the traditional methods, and then either eclipse them in application, or take what I have learned in a completely new direction. I am more driven and passionate to learn and to completely understand something down to the most fundamental level more so than most people that I know. The are only two limitations: which are my energy level and the amount of hours available in one day.



(DISCLAIMER: Who am I? I am not famous (nor do I desire to be). I am not a millionaire, nor am I a holder of thousands of patents. My pursuit of knowledge here is not motivated by financial gain, but instead for my own personal satisfaction. Thus I am a nobody, and live very simply. I strive for a stress-free life.)


This belief is supported by action, in all aspects of my life. Music being such a big part of my life is no different. I have realized both success and innovation by 'thinking outside the box' while I see that unfortunately, others are still often trapped inside of one.

I have encountered this experience time and again as part of my 25 yrs spent previously in an IT career, where troubleshooting is par for the course in every aspect of the performance of the work. Whether it be with people, hardware, software or something else, if one can not troubleshoot, and make (often frustrating and) repeated attempts, and be resolute in going where even 'Angels fear to tread', one simply can not find solutions, and one will end up trapped by the dogma of naysayers.

Having said that, sensing that there is lots of traditional 'culture' here on UU from other members who have been around here a lot longer than I have, and due to the fact that I still consider myself 'new around here' (despite having a long history with internet forums long before there ever was a graphical face to the internet) and I want to 'fit in' and 'play nice with others', and integrate myself as a beneficial contributor to the greater part of the UU culture as a whole that derives from member contributions, and members helping other members, I want to tread lightly with certain ideas that might be considered so unorthodox as to appear as blasphemy to the hardcore traditionalists.

It is never my intent to stir up controversy or create discord, and that is why I posted this thread in the 'Uke Talk' area, hoping to get some suggestions.

While I realize that what I say next might appear as assigning motivations where they do not exist, these observations are based upon my past experiences with my efforts to 'push the envelope' in other realms.

I felt that posting in the 'Luthiers Lounge' area that I might end up provoking a religious war, which I do NOT want to do. I would rather avoid, once again hearing someone say 'It can not be done.' In many areas of my life, I've heard 'you can't do that' too many times than I can count, and I have in fact proven this axiom to be false every single time. I will always find a way. There must be a scientific or logical explanation that can demonstrate why it will fail, otherwise I will test it myself.

Similar for the Tech Support area.

However, I will not pre-judge the possibilities, and go forth with an open mind.

But Bill, your point is well taken that the member traffic in those areas might be more specific to my concerns. I will consider this carefully next time I have such an idea and related query.

I am not sure if anyone besides me has noticed that since Jan 1, 2014, there have been at least 4 new (long-ish) threads in various subsections of the forum here specifically related to the guitalele/guitarlele, and lots of the conversation discusses the strings, the tuning, the sound, transposing, etc as this instrument is a cousin (or evil hybrid depending upon your viewpoint) of both the guitar and ukulele.

I got to thinking, as I often do, on the topic of making my experience (and then when shared with others, their experience) with this guitalele/guitarlele somehow BETTER. I am always thinking about ways to IMPROVE the items and 'tools' around me in my life. It's a sort of healthy obsession. To say the least, I am never bored, and I receive great satisfaction from the process and always learn something, even if I fail to improve the item in question, it is the process, and in the learning that in fact I am able to repeatedly improve myself. This is the lens through which I see the world and the blanket that keeps me warm at night.

Having recently discovered the Worth Brown Fluorocarbon strings, and realizing that it's not just hype here in the forums for all the praise that they have received, I want to explore the possibility of trying them on other stringed/fretted instruments where/ever possible.


I often type answers to questions, but don't send them for various reason. Just because 39 people read your post and did not reply does not mean that it did not generate a reaction.

I honestly had not thought of that. I fully admit that this was my failure to consider why nobody said anything. After all, I can not read minds :) (not yet any way)


In a nutshell my answer to you post was to suggest that you go through the process of buying the strings and fitting them and using them for a month or so, and then post a report on the results. Worth sets come in lengths which will be enough for two sets of strings, so the length of the strings would not be a problem. I don't think the tension would be a problem, and anyway a problem with tension is usually easy to see in the top so you can stop before there is any damage.

Yes, this is the plan I was considering.


The only issue for me in the trial is the cost of the strings, two packets of worths strings (4 x sets) would cost me about $40 and a weeks waiting.

I concur, two packages of Worth Browns 63" are ~$32 + shipping from my short exploration of the various online vendors.


...you may have already tried the classical guitar strings

Yes, and they are fine, but I wanted to try something new and different., and OMG possibly 'better' :)


and you also don't want to spend $40 without knowing the result, which is why you made the post.

Yes, I wanted to see if anyone else had tried this before, or might have even thought about it before, and if there was anything I needed to learn from their experience.


But also now people are going to look at the Worths string sets differently, instead of two string sets for a short scale instrument, they could be a single set for a longer scale instrument. Possibly even, Mr Worths helpers will find this post and they might look at a business case for selling brown guitarlele/classical guitar strings.

Honestly, I had not figured what exactly would happen next if successful, but if the strings work well in the new application, then maybe there is opportunity for the Mr Worths company to create a new and discrete set of strings for the guitalele/guitarlele...

So having said all that. I am hoping to figure this out some time over the next couple of weeks in between recording sessions.

I will probably create a video to show the result, whether the experiment succeeds or fails, and hopefully others can learn from what I have discovered, either way.

-Booli